Player suggestions for fixing Alterac Valley

Many of you agreed that the system should automatically report players that are AFK, rather than relying on those of us who are fighting and defending to point them out. There also seemed to be an agreement that AFK'd players should not be allowed to remain so; after a certain period of time, they should indeed be booted from the battleground.
In order to avoid harsh penalties in a legitimate and unavoidable AFK situation, jr suggests that whatever punishment is implemented, it should not be so for manually /AFK'ing oneself, or when the player is disconnected. Our own Matthew Rossi does point out; however much we might like to impose a more aggressive system of punishment, players will find a way to exploit and abuse it. Malachi145 also pointed out that, no matter what, AFK'd players should not be gaining credit for the daily battleground quests.
Several players even outlined complete systems that could be implemented in a future patch to further reduce the problem that AFK'd players in battlegrounds pose for their teammates.
A system of thresholds
Sloane suggested that Blizzard could set some minimum thresholds for healing, damage, node capture, and node defense. If a player does not meet at least one of these after a certain amount of time, then even if they are not AFK, they are hindering their teammates, and action should be taken.
I think this would have to be worked out on the PTRs to see if it would be effective enough to balance out any loopholes wherein players might be legitimately helping and yet not meeting a threshold. Perhaps there could also be a threshold for deaths. If you are rushing to a contested, and therefore important, area and being attacked and killed, resurrecting, running back out, etc then at the very least you are trying, and providing a distraction or slowing the other team down. In addition, I think there would have to be some improved methods of measuring node capture and defense, as you might help to do this and yet not be the one to click the flag.
Along this line, Buckaroo had an interesting idea. Players standing within ten yards of a contested node would be exempt from potential AFK status for the four minute duration. Once the node has been capped, the players are again subject to AFK flagging. I feel that this would need revision to allow defense of nodes that can be recaptured, such as the towers of Eye of the Storm, but a similar method of system recognition using proximity could be used to determine who is defending, and protect them. As it is, it is difficult to obtain a much-needed defensive team in many matches.
Scaling deserter debuff
Several comments were made that specified ways in which the deserter debuff, which currently prevents any player who /AFKs out of a battleground from entering any other for a duration of fifteen minutes, could be improved. Specifically, that it should scale with repeat offenses. Buckaroo suggests a 30 minute debuff on first offense, with all subsequent removals resulting in a one hour debuff. He also felt that it should reset each day. Sky_Paladin opted in on the lenient end of the spectrum, positing a punishment scale of 0mins/5mins/15mins etc. Fearmonger proposed a "three strikes" scale, landing you with a 24 hour deserter debuff should you be reported and booted as AFK in three separate matches.
Suspected bot reporting
In addition to being able to report someone as AFK, anonymoose suggested that players should be able to report another player as a suspected bot. Once reported, the player would have a short time window in which to drastically change their behavior in some way, either by moving to a new locale or objective or speaking in battleground chat. Upon removal of the suspected bot debuff, the AFK debuff would automatically be applied, ensuring that the player would have to enter combat within the appropriate time frame, and potentially face being booted from the battleground entirely. A failure to remove the bot debuff would result in some punishment, and generate a report to Blizzard.
I definitely like the idea of being able to report someone as a suspected bot. In fact, I'd like to see it outside of battlegrounds as well. I doubt that anything would ever come of such reports, but it would make me feel better. Although, an accumulation of reports over time might well lead to action on Blizz's part.
I also like Mordrod's idea of a challenge/response mechanism being applied to a suspected bot report. Once you gain the debuff, a typical "re-type these oddly written characters into this box" prompt would appear, forcing your character to prove that it has a human manipulating it. Of course, I get those wrong at least half the time, so I'd definitely like to see a three strikes system, with unique prompts each time.
Persistent flagging
Tristan puts forth the notion that once having been debuffed as AFK in a given match, a player that rids him or herself of the buff by entering combat would subsequently be automatically re-flagged after every X amount of minutes of similar inactivity. I think this would be a great way to keep the lazy players hopping, and it might force members playing defense to choose their nodes more strategically.
While one still might fall AFK from seeing no action at, for example, a base in Arathi Basin, and end up re-flagged for the same reason, in the amount of time this would take, the team might have benefited more from potentially losing the base and having to retake it, while having an extra pair of hands elsewhere.
The heavy hand
There were several players who felt that more extreme solutions, such as extended bans from battlegrounds, would be most favorable. Guernia suggests that should a player complete three games with an inactive debuff (or, one would think, be booted from three should that be implemented), the player should receive a deserter debuff that bans them from battlegrounds, persists through death, lasts for 24 hours of /played time, and also prevents honor gain through any means.
RogueJedi86 mentioned that, should one end a match with the AFK debuff, the resulting deserter debuff should last a day or two, although the results could be reversed by petitioning a GM and having him or her examine your record. Because I still feel that people can legitimately fall AFK, I would rather see a threshold before even considering supporting such a ban, myself.
Of all of the ideas put forth, I have to say that Ahoni's was the most strict, claiming that if on any two days in a seven day period, you have been booted for being AFK more than three times, you would receive a seven-day ban from battlegrounds. Your third seven-day ban would award you with a permanent exile. While part of me thinks "oh-em-gee a perma-ban?", the other half is struggling to see how anyone could receive this and still be innocent.
Most creative (and wicked) solution
Anonymoose's vision for the fate of the AFKer who failed to remove the debuff and was then booted, ranks as the most interesting, creative, and downright devious. Once booted, instead of spawning at the battlemasters in a major city, the offenders would find themselves in a hive in Silithus, with their hearths auto-banked, and no honor doled out.
The one-hour deserter debuff will be applied once any major city containing battlemasters is reached. Each repeat offense will see the debuff time doubled, and this would never reset.
Which solutions do you agree with? Or do you have complex theories of your own?
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Cheats, Odds and ends, PvP






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
thatquietgamerdude Jan 24th 2008 10:40AM
Regarding the last solution: AFKers should not reappear in Silithus, they should reappear at the Throne of Kil'jaeden in Hellfire Peninsula. Preferably next to an annihilan.
Puzzle Master Feb 10th 2008 1:00PM
I realy dont have time to read all these so if it was said already, oh well. Should be flagged world PVP when you get kicked out of BG for 1 hour, should have a HUGE bouncing arrow above your head while flagged like when you screw up on the quest that you have to answer a question from a book, and you should be auto rez'd when you die like in BG so you cant sit around as a ghost waiting for world PvP to go off. HAHA, everyone would be camping the nearest GY to get a wack in.
Added Mar 31st 2008 6:42AM
I like the tele to hive on the idea that it creats space between the deserter and the NPC into bgs. But I think a more realistic idea and less strick idea would be to tele deserters out of the major city they were just in. Like you got kick ut of a bar. Throw in some %5 left health for effect.
Alex Jan 7th 2008 2:39PM
I think I've mentioned this before, but essentially what all these readers have done is create several different *heuristics* for how an automated system might determine if a player is not participating in a battleground.
By taking some weighting of the these heuristics, it would be trivial to automate auto-booting of people not participating. Consider for a moment that this kind of heuristic based learning can produce Bach Chorales and Mozart concerti that the majority of music majors can't tell from the real thing, if you don't believe me. The principles are the same.
Blizzard has highly intelligent programmers who work for them. They have people who know all about computational theory. The game could not be created or maintained without it. I think it's an entirely interesting and different question to figure out why this issue hasn't been fixed in such a manner - it might be because intelligent programmers / theory people will have a tough time explaining how such a concept works to management / policy people. My money's on this - happens all the time in the business world.
Consider as a comparison the very clever user mods to phpBB which block ALL, and I do mean all, botting / spam / etc on forums to the amount of spam that shows up on the WoW forums. It's completely fixable, the holdup is in the management, not in the theoretical ability to change.
Green Armadillo Jan 7th 2008 2:56PM
There's a difference between technically feasible and beneficial. Some of these proposals would literally flag players for behaving in a matter that is (in the poster's view) strategically sub-optimal. That's already a bad idea, but at least players can use discretion (e.g. perhaps defending a node that isn't under attack is strategically "better" if the match is almost over and having that node ninja'ed by a rogue would result in a loss). If you wanted to script this so the server can flag people automatically, you'd either have to write an incredibly complicated set of exceptions that no one would be able to remember, or you'd wind up penalizing people who are actually doing something useful.
Do we really want the server to tell us how to play the game?
Malachi154 Jan 7th 2008 4:34PM
Turing Test Leech Monitor already uses that same idea - "It runs quietly in the background, monitors all players in the battleground, and uses a variety of metrics to determine which ones are playing, and which are just sitting idle in a corner or otherwise being useless. Whenever it identifies one of the latter type, it submits a report using the Blizzard API and notifies you that it has done so, along with a brief summary of that player's contribution statistics to explain why it identified that player as a leech. The heuristics are customizable through a config panel, and there is support for all four battlegrounds, although it is primarily intended for Alterac Valley."
Why can't (or won't) Blizzard incorporate these metrics into the battlegrounds themselves, allowing for auto-reporting of suspected AFKers?
White Rabbit Jan 8th 2008 12:49AM
A lot of these are just... idiotic
Most of them punish people for staying on defense. That's what we need, less people on defense *sarcasm*
Uncle Vinny Jan 7th 2008 2:40PM
HA! I love the Silithus hive solution.
eROKv Jan 7th 2008 2:43PM
there doesnt need to be any wild, crazy fixes to the afk problem. just two simple changes to the existing system: 1. when you get the purple dot of shame, you are instantly booted out of the BG and 2. this booting gives you a 1hour deserter debuff.
people will say "well this can be used to boot people that some people dont like" well there you go - we just fixed another problem. eventually these folks will learn how to get along with others. cuz thats the 2nd biggest problem i see in wow after afk'ers - A-HOLES!
Naix Jan 7th 2008 2:53PM
Never thought about that...but it works. ;)
Cribley Jan 7th 2008 3:10PM
I was trying to get resources in the mine yesterday, and got the purple dot for "enjoying my pve".. Believe me I wasn't enjoying myself. I had to abandon the mine and pvp.
We still won, but not by much.
Fuzzfuzz Jan 7th 2008 4:07PM
But that also gives the jerks that people don't like a tool to either get revenge or just cause problems.
I think there are some serious limits to what you can do and I agree with green armidillo in that we don't want the rules of punishment telling us how to play the game and the scripting and rule enforcing for exceptions would just become ridiculous.
a more appropriate solution would be, if you get the afk debuff. you have the same limited amount of time to get back into battle as it would take for a player to go afk automaticly standing around anywhere in the virtual world before they get booted from the battleground.
Also, the debuff isn't removed when you get into combat with non-player characters? Did not know that...
Gurei Jan 7th 2008 2:43PM
....the problem of AV are not AFKers.
Most AVs i am,horde is free of AFKers and yet we still lose,i can blame it to the map,but when we get there with a mod as a premade we win,just like we win in AB as premade.
I think that is the problem,no premades for AV.
BTW if you get in with your group of friends,guildies,or just other people in the server that all are ready to work cooperate and earn their honor,you know no one will be afk.
All of these silly suggestions wont fix a thing,the horde/alliance(whatever the losing faction in AV is in that battlegroup) will keep having that feeling that they fight a lost cause,worthles and useles and wont really fight seriously.And all it will do is penalize those that do know what to do and instead of just being 1 more of 40 rushers,they stand and direct others ,take command and help the team know how to win.I am pretty sure AFK bots will find a way to just go and get in the middle of the fihght to die a few times or whatever to bypass that silly security.Just players that DC or that are on D will be penalized by it,24h Deserter lol? Its a game please.
Runstadrey Jan 7th 2008 2:46PM
The Silithus stranding is to lol. Being in the range of Blacksmithing where I need hundreds of thorium bars, I'm intimately familiar with the bug holes. Just the thought of farming them knots my stomach.
Perhaps the AFKers could also be hit with a movement or armor debuff at the same time.
Minnow Jan 7th 2008 2:46PM
I like the last one but instead of just Silithus, it should be 1 out of X of the really unvisited places where no-one goes :P
Olee Jan 7th 2008 3:02PM
Moonglade!
Hollywood Ron Jan 7th 2008 3:13PM
Gnomer!
Lin Jan 7th 2008 3:59PM
Exodar!
Rzar Jan 9th 2008 5:02PM
dump them in the middle of an opposing factions city :D
Gareth Jan 15th 2008 9:35AM
I had this idea too :) Standing on a remote mountain in Stonetalon would be good, a remote patch of water, or just a path a long way away from anywhere in particular. Maybe breaking their hearthstone/portal runes would be a nice touch too - after all the faction you were supposed to be helping has a reason to be annoyed, even loss of faction....
That makes an interesting possibility, a character becomes hated by his own faction = dead account, or long grind to get back into favour :)
The added bonus to this would be on pve servers they'd still have their pvp on so they'll be providing a free honour kill to whoever wanders by.
I'd like to see an AFK ally materialise just outside Ogrimmar though with pvp on while 12 level 70's are duelling :D