Shifting Perspectives: When am I outside?
by Ryan Carter 
Jan 8th 2008 at 6:00PM
I am lame, a noob, and whatever else, but I still love my Entangling Roots, even at level 70. Give me a break people, it is the only crowd control I have as a proud dps kitty who moonlights as a tank. All the rogues have this wonderful sap that apparently brings all the boys to the yard in an instance. Cyclone lasts 6 seconds, which is nice, but doesn't "control a crowd" per se, not like Entangling Roots. For some reason, Entangling Roots only works outside, and I am okay with it. That may seem like a simple and very ordinary uncomplicated statement. As a Druid, I feel it is my duty to complicate everything (a result of the "overpowered class" buff), so let us decide once and for all what this term "outside" means. Apparently Blizzard is confused about this whole "Outside" thing as well. It may not seem important to non-druids, but just think about having to pee and not knowing whether you are outside or not. I think you'd agree that this is a major problem, peeing or not.
Riddle me this, I go into the Caverns of Time, keyword here: Caverns. I mosey on through the instance to Old Hillsbrad Foothills, and while burning orc dorms I am decidedly outside, because my outside-only abilities work. I even target and try to entangle my own group in roots (no, not really) because I'm so giddy that I get to use my only form of viable crowd control inside an instance. Mere minutes later, I am in Hellfire Ramparts, only because a guildy needs it for some quest, and we need guild bonding. I lay out Kitty's Delight (TM) picnic foods and my checkered table cloth on Omor's cold dead hide, grab my lemonade and some sweet tunes while everyone else regens their mana. Despite the fact that I can feel the acid rain from wherever and see the twisting nether falling in the vast blankness and post-carnage that is today's Hellfire sky, I am not outside why?
There are plenty of other times when I seriously disagree with Blizzard (unleash the Fel Cannons on me, go ahead) that I am outside. I understand why I can't use Entangling Roots unless I am outside from reading "The Well of Eternity" by Richard A. Knaack (which I highly recommend by the way). Old skool lore FTW! Malfurion, the first Druid, had to call upon the trees of the forest and I imagine other portions of nature to do his bidding (more like ask the tree's permission to use their loose leaves to shred demons), thus the reason Druids go over to tree-houses for a spot of
What I don't get is why and how Blizzard decided where outside is. In Darkshore, for example, I am on the walkway out the ships, and though under open sky, for about 30 yards, I am not outside. Perhaps that is a 3D model and invisible areas issue, I don't know, but seeing that familiar and annoying phrase "can only be used outside" is so aggravating sometimes, especially without knowing the reasons why I am not outside, when I can clearly see that I am. Do you have any insight into this thinly veiled anomaly? I am all ears. No seriously, all ears, bear ears, cat ears, elf ears, and even bird ears. No mongoose ears though, only because I am too ugly for words, but of course, I digress.
Filed under: (Druid) Shifting Perspectives, Night Elves, Druid, Analysis / Opinion, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Tridus Jan 8th 2008 6:09PM
My favorite example of this is Strahlome. Despite wandering down the streets of the burning city, you're "inside".
While it may make sense that Entangling Roots doesn't work in a city, it makes no sense at all that it also blocks a Warlock's Infernal (which also only works outside). Since pretty clearly, standing on a city street is not "inside".
Of course, Blizzard misuses words all the time. The Halberd of Smiting has an effect:
"Chance on Hit to decapitate your opponent for 500 damage."
I don't know about you, but I think being decapitated would hurt a bit more then 500 HP.
Thingy Jan 8th 2008 6:18PM
Or for that matter how Enraged Earth Elementals become enraged ... unless they're lolcats.
Ametrine Jan 8th 2008 10:24PM
You cast Drain Soul (Rank 1) on Soulless Ghoul
...
You receive Soul Shard
...wait, what?
Adam R Jan 9th 2008 1:25AM
No way dude, I got crit for like 2500 the other day, I must have been completely dismembered!
Somehow I was still standing, though...
Thingy Jan 8th 2008 6:17PM
If you understand for lore reasons, then how about this? At hellfire ramparts the roots would need to travel through a LOT of stone and brickwork, ultimately destroying the location of 4 instances just to make it up to the mob you are trying to root. On a jetty such as the one in Auberdine the roots would have to break through the sand and seawater (and sea water isn't good for trees due to the salt) and break the lumber making up the jetty to work.
Of course, in the tradition of breaking my own arguments this would also mean roots wouldn't work in Tanaris or Sifilus/Silithus - after all, have you seen a tree in either of these zones (other than on the coast of Tanaris, that is)?
daniel.roy Jan 8th 2008 6:18PM
My understanding of "outside" for Entangle is this:
It depends on the ground you stand on.
If it's nature (grass or anything else), then you're "outside". If it's paved, or stone, or otherwise, it's "inside".
Any fact that disproves this? I do agree that "outside" is a weak way of saying "it has to be a place where a plant can grow", but it probably didn't fit on the tooltip. :)
Retron Jan 8th 2008 6:51PM
I agree with daniel.roy, it must be based on the ground type, i.e. whether the entangling roots would be able sprout from it or not. If you think about it, it does kind of make more sense than whether the sky is visible. It seems like if that's indeed the case, then Bliz should make that more clear in the tooltip and spell description.
Philip Jan 8th 2008 8:27PM
The ground you stand on? How about the Coilfang dungeons. ;)
Finnicks Jan 9th 2008 5:54AM
Inside/outside is defined loosely by the game, and for the most part deals with whether or not you can mount there or not.
Some examples of abilities that can only be used outside:
* Mounts
* Entangling Roots
* Inferno (warlock spell that summons Infernal)
The priority obviously is whether or not Blizzard wants you to be able to mount in a certain area. You CAN use Entangling Roots and Inferno in capital cities now. Yes, Roots grow out of the roadtiles in Stormwind, Inferno meteors pop out of the vaulted ceilings of Undercity.
But at the same time, in the garden areas of Scarlet Monastery, clearly ground with grass and plants, you can't use Entangling Roots. And in the broken streets of Strathholme, clearly under the open (yet fiery) sky, you can't summon a meteor-glad Infernal.
Inconsistancy FTL, Blizz.
Josh Jan 9th 2008 7:34AM
Roots actually do work in cities, an example being rooting one of the ruffians in Shattrath.
As for being outside, your outside (or it appears so) in parts of the Scarlet Monastery, but you can't use roots there.
Rusalka Jan 9th 2008 3:48PM
Or Maraudon. Roots should work in Maraudon, dammit.
Scoottie Jan 8th 2008 6:26PM
i lost you half way thru this post since you seem to go on a tangent at a moments notice, but outside = no roof over my head. if yoou can see the sun/moon/stars/sky then you are outside.
Dinich Jan 8th 2008 6:30PM
Um, isn't it just the same as where you can mount or not? It's much easier to reuse this existing data of inside/outside that has been created for mounting than it is to go over the entire world and classify inside and outside for roots vs mounting vs infernal etc.
Shivoa Jan 8th 2008 8:43PM
This is what I've always assumed.
It seems the original setting was to make anything where you stand on the 'world' ground was outside and anything where you stand on a 'prop' inside. World being the continuous skin of the level and props being structures placed onto that world.
This has obviously been refined with things like most props inside the main cities allow for mounting and some areas outside limited to prevent mounting to stop you moving too quickly or using the outdoor only abilities.
Flatlander Jan 8th 2008 6:35PM
Its a Sea Lion, Mongooses are little ferret looking creatures that kill snakes.
Dalamyr Jan 8th 2008 6:39PM
And to just further confuse things, some of the Blood Elf mobs near the end of Botanica will cast Entangling Roots. Come on, there's not even any windows. Then again, perhaps they are unleashing the awesome powers of their planters. Grow lights ftw!
Masterless Jan 8th 2008 6:59PM
Cyclone doesnt "control a crowd". WTF?
Just wait till you droods get cycloned nerfed and then your "what about our only crowd control" mobs start QQ!
Philip Jan 8th 2008 8:32PM
Nope. Cyclone is 6 seconds and has diminishing returns, even in PvE. It's pointless as you can't cast it more than 3 times. And at 6 seconds, you kinda need to.
Max Jan 8th 2008 7:31PM
They need to:
a) Make roots useable indoors
b) Make hibernate work on humanoids
c) Give us a PvE buff to cyclone, akin to a mage's sheep
vetarra Jan 8th 2008 7:39PM
Even better, Dire maul had mobs that would regularly cast Entangling Roots on you, you're outdoors with roots growing from the walls, and you still can't use Roots. Why? Why can't we use it in caves where roots are hanging from the ceiling?