The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Saying hi to the new boss

The Care and Feeding of Warriors comes to you this week to discuss preparing to tank a new boss for the first time. Matthew Rossi has ended up dead under the feet of some jerk with a fancy name enough times to know that you need to be sure you're ready before you step into the instance. Learn from his boneheadedness.
One of the drawbacks of playing a tanking warrior (or any tank, really, but I'm not writing the druid or paladin columns, after all) is needing to have a certain threshold of gear in order to do the job. You might well know how to hold aggro exceedingly well, but if you don't have the armor, defense, mitigation stats and health to stand up to the pounding then you'll die and dead warriors are insanely bad at hold aggro.
No, not undead, just plain dead. Undead warriors are no worse at holding aggro than anyone else. (Sorry for the mix-up, Vish, you know I know you're awesome.) Being that holding aggro is thereby a function of not only generating threat but surviving as you do so, there are thresholds below which you won't survive tanking a boss encounter. If a boss can possibly unleash 12k damage (I'm looking right at you, phase 2 Prince) then you'd need, at a minimum, something like 16k health to tank him, buffed. I'd prefer more. (The MT on our Prince kills has about 17k buffed.) This level of health is necessary to provide room for your healers to get those heals off after a huge damage spike.
The unfortunate upshot to all this is that it can be hard to get into the instances where the gear you need drops, if you're not geared enough to tank them yet. There are a few quest drops and crafted items that can help close the gap, but the catch 22 factor still exists. To get the gear to run the 25 man raids, you need to run the 10 mans. To get the gear for the 10 mans, you should be doing heroics first. If you want to survive inside the heroics, you need to run the normal level 70 instances first. To a degree you can fill some of these holes with Badges of Justice, but you need to get your gear up high enough to get those first, which requires at least a solid set of gear.
Part of the problem is that a tank's gear more quickly shows its weaknesses than a DPSer, much as a healer's can: if you're an undergeared DPS player on a run where everyone else meets or even exceeds the gear requirements, then it probably won't matter much. After all, even undergeared you'll still be contributing damage, and usually gear won't hurt your CC one way or another if you're providing that. But if yoy go into heroic Slave Pens in a set of level 66 'Of The Champion' plate and expect to tank it, you're going to die unless your healer is simply awesome, and even then said healer is going to remember this run as a nightmare where he or she couldn't take their eyes off of you for a second. Some of the DPS will figure out why they died to damage that normally they'd get a cheap spot heal for, as well, if somehow that healer manages to keep you up.
It would be nice if all up and coming tanks could come to the 70 instances in solid tanking gear already, but since leveling in the game often requires you to do a lot of questing and grinding, pursuits that aren't as tank friendly at least as far as protection spec warriors are concerned, a lot of warriors spec arms/fury or fury/arms for leveling and as such end up collecting a lot less tanking gear. (My advice? Hold on to every single quest reward you get with good tanking stats until you get another piece with superior stats. My human warrior uses a green ring that he gathered in this fashion to tank heroics, it's a surprisingly strong ring considering.) Don't always confuse 'good' with 'blue or purple' either. You can tank level 70 instances, even heroics, in greens if they are the right greens. This is not to say you can do it in off the rack AH purchases, you'll need to put some effort into looking over your quest rewards, comparing their stats and deciding if you have anything as good. The Wind Trader's Band I linked above is a good example of a green that will last you quite a long time.
Another thing to consider for the up and coming tank is that tanking is more than just stamina and defense. These are important stats, yes. You want to survive, and you want to mitigate incoming damage. But new stats like expertise are much more important than they first appear. Expertise is shaping up to be a very important tanking stat. Not only does it help you generate aggro by ensuring you are dodged less and parried less, but there's a hidden advantage to having higher expertise: it is a mitigation stat.
Higher expertise means that you are dodged and parried less, which against a boss reduces the chance he will get a counterattack move against you, which is similar to the usual attack he or she can do but happens faster than normal, making it hard for a tank to have a shield block or other avoidance move up to smooth it out. Since it can be hard to tell if you've just been dodged or parried, a stat that reduces the chances of this happening also reduces the chances for a surprise big hit or crushing blow in response to you being dodged or parried.
So we have a natural gear progression to consider, and we know that we need to improve our tanking stats across the board as best we can (you'll be capping defense at 490 first, since it's vitally important to prevent crits, and then working on your other stats), getting your stamina up, your expertise, hit, dodge, block and parry as gear with those options becomes available to you. You'll also be making sure that you have all the proper buff foods and consumables, as they can help push you higher on any places you might be lacking to help provide some more slack for your healers. So what else do we need to do to tank bosses?
Figure out what it is they do. Sometimes, this may require some wiping.
Nobody likes to wipe. Especially not the dudes in plate! Believe me, everyone, if the warriors (and paladins for that matter) had it in their power, your groups would never, ever wipe. We hate repair costs the way other folks hate overripe bananas. (What? They're nasty.) I heartily recommend to any and all tanks that you go out there and read up on a new boss as soon as you can, and try and get the rest of your group to do so as well. And once you've done so, make sure to cover the boss in detail for any new players in your group who may not know the fight. But sometimes, if you're unlucky or just very fast in progression, you come up on a boss that no one's done a write up for yet, and that means you've just become a guinea pig. This learning process is necessary, so try and grin and bear it with good humor. Also try and keep in mind that fights you have done, and learned, can still wipe you. Prince comes to mind again: you can have 18k health on your MT, well geared DPS, the healers are prepped and easily breaking 1700 +heal, everyone knows their positioning and yet you still die. A heal is a fraction of a second late, a bad enfeeble/infernal combination kills the melee DPS and suddenly you're barely even scratching the Prince, Shadow Nova comes at a really bad time. These things happen.
It's really important that a tank doesn't let his or her frustration show as anger. It's okay and understandable to be frustrated when you wipe five times on a boss you've killed before, but yelling at your raid isn't going to get the thing dead. Trust me, if yelling killed bosses, the mute function on my headset would be like unto a god and I'd be dripping in legendaries.
Not much else to say, I guess. You have to meet the gear requirements, then constantly upgrade as new gear requirements come in for new encounters, always upgrading your health pool, your mitigation stats and your aggro generation stats. You have to make sure you're prepped with food and consumables. You have to research the fights, learning about abilities like Charred Earth or Empowerment. And you have to keep your cool throughout the whole process, despite the understandable urge to rip the headset off and scream profanities at that one guy who won't stop moving during Flame Wreath. And the reward is, once you kill the guy you're on now, you get to do it all over again for some new dude whose crotch will be in your face for most of the fight!
Don't all run off to start grinding your tanking gear at once, I know I make it sound so glamourous.
Next week we switch gears and talk about DPSing.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Bosses, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Erlâk Feb 16th 2008 7:25PM
You're so wrong it's unbelieveable.
Any new tank should always stack stamina over avoidance. Avoidance is not good enough to sacrifice alot of stamina for UNTIL your parry+miss+dodge chance is over 102.4%. If you have 102.3% chance, you WILL every once in a while take 3-4 hard hits in a row and that will kill you, if you neglect stamina.
However, if you start stacking stamina from day 1, you will often take streaks of 4 hits, but you have healers for that. Every boss encounter in this game only does damage that you can heal through. There is no boss in Zul'Aman or Karazhan dealing more damage per second than 3 healers to heal through, and there is no boss in Gruul, Mag and up to BT dealing too much damage per second than 7-8 healers can heal through. The dangerous damage is bursts. The limit is the tanks hp, how much damage can he take before he is dead? Look at Prince. He hits fairly weak, 2k-2.5k each hit debuffed with demo shout (which should always be up along with thunder clap). This is easy to heal through. The danger comes in phase 2, where he gains thrash and starts dual wielding. If you get one of your attacks parried in conjunction to a thrash, you can be looking at a 2.5k, 2.5k, 4k, 4k burst, with 2 crushings, or even higher. That togheter is 13k, and he has more burst potential, reports state that bursts of 16-17k has been experienced. This may occur even if you have 40% dodge and 40% parry. However, with 18k hp, this is negated. With 18k hp, you will take the hits, go down to 1k hp (in case of a 17k burst), then your healers will quickly have you back up again (unless he thrashes you again, but I'm not sure that can even happen).
Avoidance is a nice thing to reduce the damage you take in the long run, but it is never reliable. Use stamina when you are progressing on new bosses, and replace with expertise, hit and block value when farming content, for added threat and hence your dps can nuke freely and get the bosses down quicker.
Andris Jan 11th 2008 1:24PM
I know what you mean about staring the boss in the crotch. :-)
After our Kara run last week, I commented that I'd successfully tanked Prince's knees. Since I'm a prot. pally, prince is laughably easy aggro - I think I had about 150k threat at the start of phase 2, so I just turned off my auto-attack until phase 3 and used spells to stay ahead of our DPS.
One thing to remember when going in to a new, tough boss is that there are a bunch of consumables that can help you out. Besides food/elixirs, scrolls of Agility and Protection add a bit more mitigation. If you don't always have a priest in your party, scrolls of stamina are better than nothing, but they don't stack with Power Word: Fortitude.
Land Jan 11th 2008 1:28PM
nice post im a lvl 58 humam warrior and starting to do lots of instances as a tank, but im mostly arms so im looking for a tank gear and a oh sword and a board...
Charles Jan 11th 2008 1:45PM
As a prot warrior I've tanked Prince at 14.3k Health. I'm working really hard not to explode into walls of angry text. So here's what I'm going to do. Instead of firing up the stam buffed crowd, I'm going to explain avoidance. Avoidance is how you dodge, parry, block those nasty hits. Prot warriors are not bear tanks. Bear tank have high stam and armor because they have to eat crushing blows no matter what. We have shields. We have swords. We have abilities that absorb and deflect damage. Using to learn these is more important to a tank than ever having massive stam. Stamina will not save you from a crushing blow unless your healers are super. In any case, if you are a tank, roll a healer, it makes your game much better as you see the spike on different tanks. Let me leave you with this. Do not sacrifice your avoidance for stamina. They can't hurt you if they can't hit you.
Matthew Rossi Jan 11th 2008 1:58PM
Not sure why you're angry, but...
While Avoidance (Dodge, Parry, Block, and of course the benefits that defense gives to all three) is of critical importance in tanking, I think you're underrating stamina. While I'm glad you've tanked him with less health than I've seen it done with (and I'm very interested in your mitigation stats, they must be fairly awesome) I'd still argue that for groups first going into the fight, it's easier on the healers if you can present them with a tank with high defense and mitigation/avoidance AND high stamina.
Breklin Jan 11th 2008 2:12PM
However, the itemization on gear prior to Karazhan is such that going for pure stamina is simply the best way to go.
Should you be unlucky enough to have a streak with no dodge/parry/misses you need a suitably large health pool to take the incoming damage and survive through it.
In reality, tanks need a healthy balance between avoidance and stamina. If you are at 102.4% avoidance, then you can use the phrase 'They can't hurt you if they can't hit you' because before that level, you ARE going to get hit and you ARE going to get crushed. To believe otherwise is foolish.
Dave Jan 11th 2008 2:19PM
I don't think you're going to be a very successful tank with that attitude.
Once you hit the defense cap, stam should be your #1 priority JUST because it does the one thing more mitigation can't do, and that's reduce the "shit happens" factor. All the mitigation in the world isn't going to save you from a lot of poorly timed spell effects that send you 15k of unblockable, undodgeable and unparrable damage.
There are even further considerations on boss-specific and encounter-specific sets of tanking gear AND skills. For Gruul, yes avoidance stacking may be a good idea. Nothing in that instance is going to do any significant magic damage to you, so once you hit enough HP to resist a couple of bad things in a row then you can go ahead and stack avoidance. However, the same gear won't necessarily help you in magic-heavy situations where you can get really unlucky a lot of times with a couple of bad spell hits and a melee attack and a special ability all in quick succession. The only way to overcome a combo like that, is to have a big enough HP base to outlast it. Shield Wall and Last Stand only go so far sometimes, and only if you've got enough warning to know that you're going to need them.. Sometimes the 6k spell hit followed by the 5k melee attack and the 3k hit from the add come at the same time and you're just going to die if you're weak on the HP.
Every encounter is made easier when you give your healers more opportunity to make mistakes. More HP does this easier (and cheaper on an item's stat budget and with gems, incidentally) than stacking avoidance does. There's a place for both perhaps, but I guarantee you that most healers will be very unforgiving when you eat it on a boss fight multiple times because they have to constantly overheal you and waste mana because you don't have enough of a cushion to allow them some slack.
Kahawai Jan 20th 2008 4:01PM
Stamina + Armour directly relate to survivability, far more than avoidance, and it is a "sure thing", unlike avoidance.
Formula:
HP /(Armor_Reduction * Stance_Reduction) = EH (Effective Health)
It is inevitable you will be hit, so priority should be Stamina and Armor (as it is linear) over avoidance.
Just my 2 cents.
WeirdoKitty Jan 11th 2008 2:05PM
I know removing the chance of getting critically hit is important for the real heavy hitting bosses, but is "you'll be capping defense at 490 first, since it's vitally important to prevent crits, and then working on your other stats" the best advice while you're progressing to those bosses?
I get images of warriors throwing away tons of stamina and armor for just one more point of defence. As a healer, I'd rather that not happen.
Matthew Rossi Jan 11th 2008 2:06PM
It's actually more advice for gearing up for heroics first. By the time you're in Kara you should have walked in the door with 490 defense, and be looking to maintain that while getting higher stamina/mitigation gear.
Dave Jan 11th 2008 2:22PM
You can hit 490 defense easily in dungeon blues and some greens if necessary (a rifle of the champion is awesome +def in a spot you usually don't think about).
Anyone who does a heroic or kara without 490 defense just simply isn't a very smart tank.
superfrank Jan 14th 2008 8:34PM
For heroics you only need 485 defence as there are no L73s.
karlkvalvik Jan 11th 2008 5:55PM
Avoidence is awesome until you get into situations where you get hit for 14k no matter what. Having your healers keep steady heals on 20khp is easier for them rather then taking spike damage randomly with 16-17khp.
Halfway through SSC and TK it was just better to have 20khp, high block and less avoidence. Witht eh insane fights of Hyjal there are times where you are running out of range of your healers to pick up that infernal, or loose abom.
So in the grand scheme of things, hardcore avoidence is good, but situational late game.
Cruizer Jan 11th 2008 7:24PM
The simplest counter-argument for why avoidance isn't always great is any mob that stuns you (Kaz'Rogal in MH for example). Then it doesn't matter if you have 100% avoidance as you can't dodge/parry/block when stunned. If you then have a small HP pool, you'll be one- or two-shotted rather than giving healers time to slap some big ones your way.
There are fights where high avoidance has it's place, but I dare say that high stamina comes into place in more fights.
Charles Jan 11th 2008 2:16PM
Yes, stamina is important. I'm angry because every new tank I have to train stacks his stamina over his avoidance. I explain they'll get enough rage from regular hits to keep a decent bar of rage. Stamina is a version of suvivability, and a much less reliable one than trying to push massive damage off the table. For example, in Black Morass, the second boss does a debuff that stack up to ten times, reducing the healing on its target. Avoidance greatly reduces the chance of him slapping that on you. Stamina is of no help to you there. On the prince fight, if you have three healers and all three are spamming to keep you alive, and in phase three they get whacked by a couple axes, no amount of stamina is going to save you when you get that crushing blow. Stamina is important, yes, but should not be the difference between life or death. Prot warriors should never gamble on thier healers. Prot warriors should be perceiving the difficulty of the healers (why I suggest all my guild tanks roll a healer) so they understand the mechanics of both sides. The suggestion that stamina is the savior of prot warriors is going to be the reason I have to break another promising warrior of ridiculous gearing habits.
Breklin Jan 11th 2008 2:24PM
Your point also speaks to the fact that warriors need several sets of gear. One for high stamina (Kael P4/5), one for high avoidance/mitigation (possibly FLK) and one with a mix of the two.
This argument becomes somewhat null in 25 mans as you ideally want a very high health pool, with some solid avoidance/mitigation thrown in.
The high stamina argument really comes into play when you look into gemming/enchanting your gear. If you aren't going for max stamina when doing this, you're doing it wrong. You're avoidance should come from your gears 'on equip' stats, hard to find before Kara.
I feel bad for the tanks you train as you are also pigeon-holing their thinking about gear as you aren't open to the idea that stamina is still important.
Dave Jan 11th 2008 2:33PM
At this point I have to seriously question your experience as a tank. If you're quoting a rather easy Black Morass boss as a necessity of stacking avoidance... I'm not sure what to tell you.
Defense is #1, Stam is #2, HIT is #3 (because you can't sunder/slam/etc what you can't hit, and hit improves your taunts as well) and then you should go for avoidance at the point where you're defense capped, have around 16k unbuffed and have your hit capped. All the dodge in the world isn't going to help you against most raid bosses because you're simply NOT going to suddenly be avoiding %75 of the attacks they throw at you. You're going to eat a lot of damage, and you're MUCH better off stacking stamina until you've got a good enough base to guarantee you can't be demolished.
And for the record, you're uncrushable if you're defense capped and actually use your shield block. I'd say your problems start with your technique and not your gear if you're eating crushing blows on a regular basis.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Crushing_Blow
You don't need any more than a normal set of gear and hitting a single button as often as possible to avoid crushes and crits.
Isambaard Jan 11th 2008 3:17PM
I've tanked all of Kara, healed all of Kara and into SSC and TK so I do understand both sides of the equation. The only thing in your post I agree with is that tanks benefit from having healed and vice versa.
What you are failing to understand is the concept of effective health and that when you want to tank content above your gear level as any tank class the single most effective way to ensure success is to stack stam. Many avoidance tanks fail to understand how the RNG in WoW actually works, which leads to a behavior that will sometimes give the appearance of outperforming EH tanks but ultimately lead to situations where no one understands why the tank is a fine red mist and the raid wiped. The fundamental misunderstanding is usually that 50% avoidance means they'll avoid every other attack, but they won't. It means each and every attack has a 50% chance of being avoided, statistics says we'll regularly see that tank take a string of hits. EH tanks understand this fact and instead gear towards ensuring they survive the maximum amount of damage they can possibly take between heals.
Avoidance has its place, and no good EH tank will say otherwise, but to prioritize it above meeting certain basic stam requirements will not suceed with the regularity a progressive raid requires. My approach, and it has served me quite well, has been to achieve the required amount of health to survive whatever string of damage I'm going to see worst case(a thrash in phase 2 of Prince for example) and then begin building avoidance to help my healers last longer on mana.
PeeWee Jan 11th 2008 10:16PM
I just tanked BM as a fury warrior, with 408 defense and
Trammel Jan 11th 2008 2:26PM
"(you'll be capping defense at 490 first, since it's vitally important to prevent crits, and then working on your other stats)"
There is NO cap to defense. For those who haven't read "life after 490" please google it.