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1-11-2008 @ 2:16PM
Yes, stamina is important. I'm angry because every new tank I have to train stacks his stamina over his avoidance. I explain they'll get enough rage from regular hits to keep a decent bar of rage. Stamina is a version of suvivability, and a much less reliable one than trying to push massive damage off the table. For example, in Black Morass, the second boss does a debuff that stack up to ten times, reducing the healing on its target. Avoidance greatly reduces the chance of him slapping that on you. Stamina is of no help to you there. On the prince fight, if you have three healers and all three are spamming to keep you alive, and in phase three they get whacked by a couple axes, no amount of stamina is going to save you when you get that crushing blow. Stamina is important, yes, but should not be the difference between life or death. Prot warriors should never gamble on thier healers. Prot warriors should be perceiving the difficulty of the healers (why I suggest all my guild tanks roll a healer) so they understand the mechanics of both sides. The suggestion that stamina is the savior of prot warriors is going to be the reason I have to break another promising warrior of ridiculous gearing habits.
1-11-2008 @ 2:24PM
Your point also speaks to the fact that warriors need several sets of gear. One for high stamina (Kael P4/5), one for high avoidance/mitigation (possibly FLK) and one with a mix of the two.This argument becomes somewhat null in 25 mans as you ideally want a very high health pool, with some solid avoidance/mitigation thrown in.The high stamina argument really comes into play when you look into gemming/enchanting your gear. If you aren't going for max stamina when doing this, you're doing it wrong. You're avoidance should come from your gears 'on equip' stats, hard to find before Kara.I feel bad for the tanks you train as you are also pigeon-holing their thinking about gear as you aren't open to the idea that stamina is still important.
1-11-2008 @ 2:33PM
At this point I have to seriously question your experience as a tank. If you're quoting a rather easy Black Morass boss as a necessity of stacking avoidance... I'm not sure what to tell you.Defense is #1, Stam is #2, HIT is #3 (because you can't sunder/slam/etc what you can't hit, and hit improves your taunts as well) and then you should go for avoidance at the point where you're defense capped, have around 16k unbuffed and have your hit capped. All the dodge in the world isn't going to help you against most raid bosses because you're simply NOT going to suddenly be avoiding %75 of the attacks they throw at you. You're going to eat a lot of damage, and you're MUCH better off stacking stamina until you've got a good enough base to guarantee you can't be demolished. And for the record, you're uncrushable if you're defense capped and actually use your shield block. I'd say your problems start with your technique and not your gear if you're eating crushing blows on a regular basis. http://www.wowwiki.com/Crushing_BlowYou don't need any more than a normal set of gear and hitting a single button as often as possible to avoid crushes and crits.
1-11-2008 @ 3:17PM
I've tanked all of Kara, healed all of Kara and into SSC and TK so I do understand both sides of the equation. The only thing in your post I agree with is that tanks benefit from having healed and vice versa.What you are failing to understand is the concept of effective health and that when you want to tank content above your gear level as any tank class the single most effective way to ensure success is to stack stam. Many avoidance tanks fail to understand how the RNG in WoW actually works, which leads to a behavior that will sometimes give the appearance of outperforming EH tanks but ultimately lead to situations where no one understands why the tank is a fine red mist and the raid wiped. The fundamental misunderstanding is usually that 50% avoidance means they'll avoid every other attack, but they won't. It means each and every attack has a 50% chance of being avoided, statistics says we'll regularly see that tank take a string of hits. EH tanks understand this fact and instead gear towards ensuring they survive the maximum amount of damage they can possibly take between heals. Avoidance has its place, and no good EH tank will say otherwise, but to prioritize it above meeting certain basic stam requirements will not suceed with the regularity a progressive raid requires. My approach, and it has served me quite well, has been to achieve the required amount of health to survive whatever string of damage I'm going to see worst case(a thrash in phase 2 of Prince for example) and then begin building avoidance to help my healers last longer on mana.
1-11-2008 @ 10:16PM
I just tanked BM as a fury warrior, with 408 defense and
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