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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news15 Minutes of Fame: Horde of Unschoolers
by Lisa Poisso 
Jan 15th 2008 at 2:00PM
15 Minutes of Fame is our look at World of Warcraft players of all shapes and sizes – both the renowned and the relatively anonymous. Know an interesting player you'd like to see profiled? E-mail us your tips.
What would happen if you let your child stay out of school to explore whatever she is most interested in doing, for as long as she wanted to do it? Would she end up playing World of Warcraft all day long? This week, meet a mom who not only lets her kids play WoW whenever they want to – but many days, she's the first one to log in. For the members of The Venture Co. server's <Horde of Unschoolers>, it's a lifestyle and educational approach that's not as outlandish as it might sound. It's called "unschooling," and thousands of families find it just the ticket to a creative, individualized education.
Meet <Horde of Unschoolers> matriarch Takulah, mom to two WoW-playing unschoolers and a WoW enthusiast in her own right, after the break.
Interest-led learning
Before we talk to Takulah, a little background on unschooling. Also known as "child-led," "interest-led" or "inquiry-based" learning, unschooling is a style of home educating that follows a child's individual and developmental passions. "Interest-initiated learning works well for children with a deep, abiding interest or hobby, as well as for students with clearly delineated goals," writes Karen Taylor in the California Home School Network's The California Home School Guide. On the flip side, she admits, "Some say that unschooling results in educational gaps, holes in a student's knowledge."
Gaps? Many unschoolers worry about those later, rather than sooner. Unschooling is more a whole-family lifestyle than an educational approach or curriculum. Unschooling parents strive to deluge their families in a rich stream of educational opportunities and "real life" experiences. The aim is to give kids not only the space to discover their own interests but also the tools to dive in when they're ready to "fill the gaps" with gusto.
If that sounds like a full-time proposition for parents - it is, and it should be, asserts Dr. Mike Sacken, a professor of education at Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, Texas. "Boy, you can't be casual about this!" he exclaims. "If someone wants to be able to do this, they need to be available full time, guiding the child's inquiry-based learning. It's not like you can leave a child alone most of the time and at the end of the day, you can do reflection with them and they'll have discovered physics. You have to be with them all the time."
Are unschoolers actually succeeding in college and later in life? According to Sarah Spooner, senior admission counselor at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, they most assuredly are. "These students are really well motivated, have done their homework and done their research," she affirms. "They're the type of students who excel when they get on a college campus because they can keep themselves in check and make sure they're doing well and succeeding."
A horde of unschoolers
15 Minutes of Fame: So here's a question I'm sure you get a lot -- what exactly is unschooling?
Takulah, <Horde of Unschoolers>: Freedom to learn and grow, to explore questions and passions. My job is to help, chauffeur, provide opportunities, share interesting things (goes both ways between kids and parents). The answer to this question is considerable. For lots of information, try SandraDodd.com or JoyfullyRejoycing.com, or Google "unschooling."
How long has your family been unschooling? What got you started?
We've been unschooling just shy of six years now. My 13-year-old got me started when school didn't work for her and a curriculum in a box caused tears and frustration rather than fascination, enjoyment, curiosity.
And so here you are in World of Warcraft. Tell us about the Horde of Unschoolers. What inspired you to start the guild?
An unschooling dad started the guild as a way for kids and parents (most of whom know each other from unschooling conferences) who enjoyed the game to play together.
Are all HoU members unschoolers, or do you allow other members as well?
As far as I know, we're all unschoolers in the guild. It's a place where unschoolers who know each other from conferences or online can play, so there are some parameters.
How old are most guild members?
All ages. There's a group of kids ages 6 to 11 who play almost daily, a few teens who play often and parents who play regularly.
I understand you all use Skype to communicate in game. Is that something you use for other things, too? Have you tried out the in-game chat system?
We use Skype to communicate mostly in WoW, but (also for) other internet things also. Haven't tried the in-game chat system yet.
We don't really have enough high-level characters for a raid ... I did hear of one raid early on that ended in "Run away!" We do a fair amount to dungeons together and help each other level. Some of the kids go to a farm in Durotar or other place and roleplay.
Do your kids have time limits or restrictions on when or how much they can play WoW?
My kids don't have a time limit to play WoW -- and since it is not put on the "Pedestal of Scarcity," it is played freely, like all the other things they do.
Do you consider WoW part of your kids' educational experience?
Everything is educational; learning happens all the time. Anything one does or doesn't do adds information to her body of knowledge, no? For us, WoW has led to many interesting conversations and research. For instance, one time my son and I played with a couple of guys from Brazil. One of the guys only typed in Portuguese; the other guy would translate. We got to learn a few Portuguese words, look up Brazil, check time zones. We got to make a connection with stories from my husband about the time he was in Brazil (seeing shanty towns and eating the most tantalizing coconut pudding).
What's a typical day for your family? How does WoW fit in?
Our typical days are easy going days filled with eating, cooking, playing, questioning, reading, exploring, caring for pets, watching, concentrating, drawing, building, relaxing, pondering, writing, experimenting, researching. WoW is played intermittently through out the day, when I have some time. My son plays for considerable chunks of time with several kids.
Tell us about your family -- ages, WoW main characters, things each character enjoys in game.
I have two kids ages 13 and 9. They both play WoW.
My favorite faction is Horde, and I like ranged attackers -- it is easier to see what is going on around me in the game. My main is a level 68 female troll hunter, Takulah. She's been the pioneer of the game for me, seeing new zones, learning the ropes. I also have a level 49 female blood elf priest (Talukah) who I'm playing in battlegrounds right now, trying to learn to be a better player at PvP. And lastly I have a level 40 male troll mage (Zeb), who is just downright fun. It is so satisfying to throw a Pyroblast and see a nice chunk of health eliminated from my target! Heh, heh. I'm also getting into roleplaying a bit. There's a lot to learn in that aspect. So far, I have basic personalities for my characters and can sort of speak like a troll.
What other games do you play? What about your kids?
WoW is the only online game I like right now. My kids also play Puzzle Pirates, Second Life Teen, Warcraft 3 and Sims.
What does your family enjoy doing when you're not playing WoW?
Scootering, roller skating, knitting, reading, watching movies, swimming, caring for pets, cooking, drawing, building things.
Let's hear it from the rest of the family: what do you enjoy most about playing WoW with Horde of Unschoolers?
Luke, age 9: I don't know ... I just like, love it, I guess! ... questing, dungeon running, roleplaying, stuff like that. (Takulah adds, "Really, I think he is too busy in his life to stop and answer questions; I do see him having lots of fun on the game with his friends.")
Addi, age 13: I'm always excited to gain a new level. I spend my talent points right away. I'm good at organizing groups, I like dueling and I like *cough* killing Alliance *cough*.
Thanks for sharing a look inside your lifestyles and WoWstyles. Best of luck, and happy learning and gaming!
Know an interesting player you'd like to see profiled? E-mail us your tips.
Filed under: Interviews, 15 Minutes of Fame
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 6)
WeirdoKitty Jan 15th 2008 5:55PM
Since we've turned so many public schools into prisons for the crime being a kid, I'm not surprised that so many people opt for home-schooling.
Darkhov Jan 16th 2008 1:37PM
This is actually exactly how I was schooled up (except without the WoW) through 8th grade and my mother had me crack a book and start to build a base to pursue my interests off of.
These days, its not too hard to teach oneself chemistry or math as long as you have a decent textbook and know how to work things out.
I have many friends who are teachers, and almost to a man, (and woman), what they learned in college was not things that they were going to pass on to their students, but training for things like, how to handle a class, how to deal with trouble students etc...
and isn't that a great job for parents to do anyway?
I'm now an Eagle Scout, and going to the University of Florida, (go Gators!) so I have definitely not been disadvantaged in any way by my parents' decision to keep me home.
kr3wman Jan 15th 2008 6:36PM
I've skimmed through the comments and...
Wow. Looks like some people from MAVAV came here and registered.
Vil Jan 16th 2008 11:00AM
Any kid with the desire to learn is going to learn in spite of the schooling situation or parents. This fact is true with home schooled kids, unschooled kids and institutional schooled kids. In most situations, traditional school works for kids, but it doesn’t work for all of them, my son included.
He tested early on as having an IQ of 131, and he went to one of the best high schools in the area. It was here where he struggled. It’s not that he didn’t understand the subject matter; it was that it didn’t interest him and he decided the punishment for not caring (marginal grades) was survivable.
My wife and I said “now that you’re out of high school, you’ll need to figure out what you want to do,” and he has for the most part. He worked as a lifeguard over the summer and starts work for an ambulance company soon. He’s enrolled to become a paramedic and wants to eventually become a fireman. It’s what he likes, the adrenaline, the camaraderie, the physical nature of the job.
Sure he missed out on the chance to experience a college environment, which is something I found thoroughly enjoyable. I guess when he gets the job he wants he can always go back and get a degree. However, he won’t just be getting a meaningless sheepskin, he’ll be getting something he wants to get and that will help him succeed in his chosen profession.
I’ve seen plenty of all varieties of education work and fail. The blame for failure usually gets thrown at the kid but sometimes that blame needs go rest on the parents. Unschooling sounds like a system that would have really benefited my son.
Rainnajax Jan 15th 2008 6:49PM
As an educator who also plays WoW, I can see several very beneficial life skills as well as academic skills that can be used to learn while playing. Map skills are always good, as are economics. Literacy is supported through having to read quests and while many kids write in a jibberish nowadays anyways, typing and keyboarding skills are supported as well. Teamwork and cooperation are needed to really excel in the game. Would I want the game to be a child's only learning source? NO WAY!, but can it be used as a learning support activity, of course it can. I am staying out of the debate about Unschooling because I know both schooled and home-schooled students who are doing very well and some that are doing very poorly. I think it has a lot to do with the motivation of the parents to find suitable learning activities and also lies in their true motivations for using home-schooling to begin with.
:-)
Rainnajax
Unschool FTL Jan 16th 2008 8:34PM
Hmm, if every kid sat around imagining what they wanted to be in some fantasy land instead of getting a dose of reality, I imagine this is what an unschooler would do...
http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF037-Bear_Boy.gif
The Fanciest of Pants Jan 15th 2008 11:59PM
Just one thing: there's a lot of "I've met lots of homeschooled people and those that are successful in life are the exception, not the rule"... Isn't that representative of people who were educated traditionally also?
Personally I don't think the majority of students completing high school go on to be well-rounded and functioning adults either. It has less to do with education then our society in general. Assign blame where it's due, please.
Takori Feb 1st 2008 11:40PM
I agree that playing WoW all day is kind of far out. But all in all you guys are forgetting that there ARE other activities in their day to day basis. Not all Homeschooled childern are stupid and socialy awkward. I know plenty of people who are being/have been homeschooled and they are just the same as anyone else I see. Just they live a little different.... Get over it. Everyone is unique and there are plenty of "different" people in the world today that have attended school and have put forth a full effort of completeling. Please realize that there are and always will be "social freaks" everywhere you go. Its like the saying that when you leave highschool, all the jocks, nerds, ect. follow you.
On the note of home schooling, I believe it can be effective if done correctly. However if it is (as said before) really jsut a way of getting out a raising your childern, I only have one thing to say, and thats adoption. However please do not call it all bad.
And one more thing, before anyone else trashes how she does it by saying its an excuse for her addicition, re-read what was all said, and take note on the part that it was only a part of their day, not their WHOLE day.
Michael Jan 16th 2008 5:07AM
There are a few issues to be addressed here:
1. Not restricting WoW play is a horrendous idea. WoW is designed to be addictive. The game requires time-consuming work and then rewards the virtual achievement. This triggers powerful chemical reactions in the brain, and lifts the player's mood. It's an accomplishment simulation, except they haven't accomplished anything, the virtual accomplishments are absolutely a waste of time.
2. One of the most important advantages of schooling outside the home is the exposure to authorities of different opinions, backgrounds, cultures, educations, etc. Keeping a child in home schooling, or "unschooling" can limit their exposure to a variety of ideas and limit their growth in independent thinking. Religions have exploited this knowledge for centuries. James Dobson of the ultra right wing Christian 'Focus on the Family' group said: "Those who control what young people are taught, and what they experience - what they see, hear, think and believe - will determine the future course for the nation."* Which brings me to my third point.
3. The sources of authority in this article are from academically dubious institutions, with possible ulterior motives that I've alluded to above. Texas Christian University and Southern Methodist University are jokes in the land of academia.
*Blaker, K., ed. 2003 p. 7. The Fundamentals of Extremism: The Christian Right in America. Plymouth, MI: New Boston
BoomBoom Jan 16th 2008 5:47AM
I grew up during the 60's and when I was in school, if it wasn't "relevant" (big 60's word), you didn't have to learn it. It just wasn't important. So many kids never learned to do simple math or spell or just sit their butt down and learn something HARD. This mom is a throw-back to that era.
There's always going to be something that's boring, and odds are you need to learn it anyway. Or, you can say "it's not important", and skip it and spend your life saying "supersize?"
Ian Hunt Jan 16th 2008 10:50AM
OK, I feel compelled to respond to Mr. Applebutter's thoughtful and incisive OP. I am the father of 2 children, Ella, who is 10, and Declan, who is 5. We have been Unschooling our kids for almost 5 years. By Unschooling I am referring to the active, engaged "live and learn" philosophy which is described in the article. In the last 5 years I have seen and been affected by a lot of the ignorance, fear and criticism generated by people who are first introduced to Unschooling as a concept. I'd like just add some information to the pile here in case someone reading this actually has an interest in what these families are doing.
My daughter hasn't been to school since first grade. There she was often ignored by the adults who were responsible for her care, bullied savagely by her peers, not given adequate food, water, time in the bathroom, educational materials and medical care. I won't go into a diatribe about the accelerated sexuality, exposure to drugs or rampant violence which are, sadly, a part of daily life in many schools.
We allow Ella to decide when she sleeps, eats, drinks, watches TV, plays on the computer, takes care of her biological needs, has privacy, interacts with friends and pretty much everything else. She spends her days persuing the things that she is interested in. We provide her with a huge array of different materials and resources that she picks through, or she asks for what she needs. We are constantly trying to figure out ways to say "yes" to whatever it is she is asking me for.
I work hard, and my wife stays home with the kids (she has a harder job than I do). She is actively providing both kids with a constant stream of activities, food, attention, and there is a great deal of love and joy in our home, because she works her butt off to make it that way. My wife used to be a teacher and has a background in education, which makes some of the academic stuff she asks for a little easier for us, I think, although I don't really believe it matters.
Does Ella have friends? Tons. She sees groups of her peers at least 4 or 5 times a week. She goes to the library, 4H, book club, drama class, soccer practice, lots of things. Lately we've been taking her to a home-school lab at MIT where she has been building flashlights and logic boards and learning about electronics. As I am writing this post she is upstairs with 5 or 6 kids doing a Writer's Workshop led by my wife with a bunch of other homeschoolers who live in our area.
Is she fat? No. She's in good shape, she eats when she's hungry and stops when she's full. I watch other children at parties gorge themselves on foods that are restricted, like soda or candy, my kids almost never do this, because they know they can have it if they want it. Mostly they will choose to eat some healthy food and then ask for dessert. She has better eating habits than most of the adults I know.
Is she learning enough? Well, she is 10 years old and she is reading at a senior high school level. She is at her grade level in math, above it in history, english, science, and can speak a bit of Spanish, and ASL. She is incredibly artistic, and recently won the State competition in her 4H Visual Presentation category, Arts and Crafts, by making clothes and handbags out of duct tape. Doing this involved getting up and giving a 10 minute presentation in front of 200 people, twice. She is learning to be a dog handler and is taking her dog to real dog shows and participating in AKC certified competitions. Last night she auditioned to be in a play at the local high school. Will she go to college? I don;t know, that will be up to her. I'm sure that if she does decide to she will figure out a way to make that work, and we will help her out. Unschooling is about trusting your children to seek out and learn the things they need, when they need them. I haven't had to do any quadratic equations since high school, and I teach people how to fix lasers for a living - a skill that I did not learn in school, but in life.
Is she happy? Yes, she tells us all the time she loves her life. As her dad, that's all I need to hear to know I'm on the right path. Unschooling is a lifestyle, not an excuse to ignore or neglect your kids. I feel that a lot of people who have kids that are suffering in school are not giving them what they need because they are afraid of social stigma, of being judged, of having to explain themselves to people like Applebutter who have no clue about raising children. You have a fat cousin? Wow, I guess that means all homeschooled children really must have no future. Did I miss something? To coin a phrase I learned in WoW:
ZOMGWTFLRN2NOTSUCKNOOBSAUCE!!!!!!!
I'll see you all in Azeroth...Alliance FTW!
Raegn Jan 16th 2008 11:12AM
A previous poster drew this comparison:
"This kind of schooling sounds like the same kind of education as the highly successful Montessori teaching method."
In theory, yes. The difference is that Montessori schools have tools and materials relating to reality available to children. Since their premise is not based on a fantasy world, the educators are better able to apply knowledge to their own lives. Granted, Montessori education is based on interest, but when it comes to Azeroth, how many lessons, comparable to a standard or Montessori school, will be able to be taught? Not nearly as many.
MMORPG's teach players to be leaders and to interact with one another. Unfortunately, the social interaction is in such a different scope, and tends to be related primarily to gaming, the validity of its real life benefits are questionable.
Personally, I think the mother probably has a WoW problem herself. She's too invested in the game and was either 1) home-schooled; or 2) unhappy with the public/private school system as is.
As stated in the article, Montessori-schooling can leave gaps, which is exactly the reason why these schools are less dominant in the world today. *This* spin on it will *absolutely* leave gaps. What will the child tell his prospective college reviewer about his education?
"Well, until I was about 18, I stayed at home and played World of Warcraft for about 10 hours a day. I was a guild leader and we downed illidan many times. Sports? Well, I played punt the gnome for several years."
Raegn Jan 16th 2008 11:16AM
Vil, so you mean to tell me that instead of trying to utilize his mind, your son would have grown to meet his maximum potential by playing warcraft all day? Instead of reading? Instead of *pursuing* education in some way? The truth is, WoW is NOT an educational tool for anything outside of leadership, teamwork, and social interaction. Those three things, while important, are not the end all be all of a successful person.
Kronos Jan 16th 2008 1:12PM
I went back and read the article once again. Can anyone please point out where it says that they play WoW all day every day?
What I read was:
"My kids don't have a time limit to play WoW -- and since it is not put on the "Pedestal of Scarcity," it is played freely, like all the other things they do."
"What does your family enjoy doing when you're not playing WoW?
Scootering, roller skating, knitting, reading, watching movies, swimming, caring for pets, cooking, drawing, building things."
"We don't really have enough high-level characters for a raid ..."
One would think that if they played WoW all the time they would surely have enough high level characters for a raid.
It sounds to me that those posters' that are are saying, "OMG! They play WoW all day!" are just putting your own addiction off on this family.
Why did the article have a WoW slant to it? Hmmm... let's see. Oh, look up at the address bar. www.WOWinsider.com
It wouldn't have made much sense being here if the article was about an un-schooling family that plays Sims Online together.
Tom Cruise Jan 16th 2008 1:38PM
are you talking about American education? school or no school it doesn't matter...
you should send all your kids to Europe or Asia to learn something. bye bye.
Theserene Jan 16th 2008 2:07PM
Goddess I am glad her kind of 'teaching' is illegal in the UK.
Jowbulla Jan 16th 2008 2:50PM
To me, this seems like the kind of "education" that died out with the advent of the telephone. The difference being that we've replaced "milk the cows" with "gank the tauren".
MrSmithJones Jan 16th 2008 4:32PM
There are many issues with EXCLUSVIVELY homeschooling childern that are just too obvious to ignore. The first is that it is impossible for any one or two people to teach someone what they need to know in today's society. It would be ridiculous to expect a student to have the same two teachers for kindergarden all the way through high school. I don't know of ANY homeschoolers that have personal daily instructuction from professionals in biology, math, foreign language, history, art, etc; coming to their homes and teaching their kids. It's not a question of a parent being smart enough or not, it's the fact you are getting one limited perspective. Often it seems that many of the pro-homeschool parents prefer this which is part of the problem.
If we take all this just one step further... would you want a homeschooled surgeon? or a homeschooled airline pilot or homeschooled police officer? There are very good reasons that you can't get a homeschooled MBA or homeschooled PhD in physics.
Finally I would add that if a parent believes the local public school is not adequate that is their right and obligation to suppliment that education with homeschooling. But that is much different than eliminating the public school altogether. Just like when you can't get all your work done at your place of employment, you stay longer, buckle down and do what it takes to finish the job.
The notion that the child should just not go to school at all I believe teaches them a very poor work ethic. On top of that I believe there is a social responsibility of these parents as well. If they are such great teachers AND they believe the public school is poor, why do they not volunteer to come in and provide assistance to the teachers or take a more community oriented approach? Pulling their 'gifted' child from the school is a selfish and narsasistic message to the child and ignores the underlying problems with the public school system in general.
podmeister Jan 16th 2008 9:59PM
Socially awkward homeshoolers:
Some parents choose to homeschool because their child is socially awkward. School is a miserable experience for the awkward child. Did you befriend the weird kid in your class? Did you make fun of them? The weird kid has a much better chance of turning out normal in a nurturing homeschool environment as opposed to being tortured in school.
So, there are a larger proportion of socially awkward kids who are homeschoolers as opposed to school environment. But, that is a good thing.
Schooling = Education:
Mark Twain said "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education." People need to get away from the notion that you have to go to school to learn something. It is possible to learn at school; it is possible to learn in spite of school; and it's possible to learn outside of school. It's possible to remain ignorant both in and out of school. The problem is often a lack of curiosity. School does not encourage curiosity.
Sequoyah Jan 18th 2008 3:37PM
Hello
Speaking as a homeschooling/unschooling mom who also played
Wow w/ and w/out my kids, some of these comments sound like general
chat at it's worst!
I'm wondering to all the people who have responded w/ such negativity
- do you think your uneducated remarks will change any of our views on
how we choose to raise and let our children live their lives?
To try and retort w/ all the goodness and wonderful experiences we,
as a homeschooling/unschooling family get to witness on a daily
basis would only be wasted on ears that choose to respond w/ foolish
remarks and unfair judgments.
To all the families who's kids and parents play Wow etc....Woot!
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