The AV map imbalance in patch 2.3
Alterac Valley has never been completely balanced. Before patch 2.3, most people generally agreed that the map favored the Alliance, but now, we can see that it favors the Horde. The difference mainly lies in which parts of the map are most important, and how either side can use the terrain differences to win the game. Before, the only way to win the game was to kill the opposing faction's general; anything less was effectively an on-going stalemate. But now that we have reinforcements, the general will automatically die of grief and shame once too many towers fall and players bite the dust, regardless of whether he's actually seen the enemy or not. This seemingly simple shift has totally turned the faction imbalance on its head, and placed the game entirely in Horde hands to prosecute as they choose. Assuming a relative equality of gear, player skill and morale (and of course AFKers), the Horde can decide to make AV a slow but certain victory, or else toss the dice and make it a quick but uncertain race to the end.
Keep reading to see how they do it, and why the Horde can't play their ultimate best if they want to play at all.
As you can see on the map above, the Horde and Alliance each have two major territories, one for each captain and general. Each territory has its bottlenecks that force attackers and defenders into certain places, and three of the barriers involved can be passed going one way but not going the other. Each team's offense must progress through two stages in order to reach the opposing general and destroy all the towers. Both the Horde and Alliance ideally have some players on offense and some on defense, but as we'll see shortly, these territories are far from equal when it comes to how easily they can be defended. The Horde has a very strong frontal defense near their captain, but a somewhat weaker defense near their general -- the Alliance on the other hand, has a very strong defense around their general, but their captain's territory is effectively free for the taking.
To the left we see the Alliance captain's territory, Stonehearth. The entire area is wide open except for a narrow pass in the north, just near Icewing Bunker. There is minimal natural terrain blocking off access to any of the objectives, or forcing the attackers into a certain position. The graveyard can be approached from two major directions, and it is comparatively easy to capture. Defending it simply takes too many players, so Alliance usually doesn't bother. Stonehearth bunker, in particular, is so far south that the Horde can actually reach it first at the game's outset. If the Alliance wants to defend it, the only way is to take it back after the Horde has already been there.
Iceblood, on the other hand, is mostly closed off to entry from the north. While the Horde captain and the first tower are accessible, the Iceblood graveyard is nestled behind a convenient hill, creating a bottleneck very close to the resurrection point. Just a few Horde players defending any objective from there can seem like many, because after they die they come back to the battle so quickly. By contrast, the nearest graveyard to the north is the neutral point, Snowfall, which the Alliance must wait 4 minutes in order to actually make use of, and which is farther away from any Iceblood objectives in any case. At the start of the game, the Horde can wait for the Alliance in Iceblood tower, the graveyard bottleneck, or their captain's bunker, and then get right back into the action within a minute if they die.
Iceblood graveyard is by far the strongest place on the map for the Horde. It is perfectly positioned for defense of the Horde captain's territory, as well as for an offensive push into Stonehearth. In addition, even if the Horde does not defend it initially, Iceblood is relatively open for them to recapture from the south, even after the Alliance forces have been there. This recapture is especially easy if the Alliance offense is split up trying to kill the Horde captain and take both the two towers. Once the Horde taps Stonehearth graveyard, the entire Alliance offense is sent back all the way to Dun Baldar.
This Alliance home base is much easier for them to defend. Its strength matches or surpasses that of Iceblood. Before patch 2.3, Horde would find themselves having a hard time at the Stormpike graveyard bottleneck, and an even harder time getting past the Dun Baldar bridge into the Alliance general's base area. When killing the general was all that mattered, the Alliance defense could do very well just holding off the enemy here. But now that running out of reinforcements ends the game, the Alliance no longer has sufficient time to get enough players back on offense once their first attempt has failed. Remember that bottleneck in the northern half of Stonehearth? It has no use for the Alliance, but now the Horde can use it to lock them completely inside Dun Baldar. Not only is Stonehearth difficult to defend from the initial onslaught, but in the hands of the Horde, it prevents all but a trickle of Alliance players from having a second chance. The Horde thus secures a guaranteed victory by taking at least two towers and killing the Alliance captain, then fighting as far as they can till reinforcements run out.
The Horde general's area, on the other hand, is certainly weaker than Dun Baldar, but this hardly matters once the Alliance has been trapped north of Stonehearth. Only if the Horde is too late to defend Iceblood does the southern terrain of their territory turn against them. The Alliance can attack the Frostwolf graveyard from multiple directions if they have enough players in the area, or they can just ride past the graveyard into the Horde general's home base. There is a bottleneck leading into this base, but it lacks the direct line-of-sight advantages of the Dun Baldar bridge, and it is a bit more difficult for the Horde to take advantage of. None of this matters, however, if the Alliance doesn't have enough numbers there, or if the Horde offense has already made a strong push into the Dun Baldar area. If the Horde sets the Alliance back at Iceblood -- and they can without too much effort -- the game is already over, though it may take 20 or 30 minutes of turtling to finally run out of reinforcements. In the end, the Alliance will get very little honor, and the Horde will get a great deal. Some people will try to tell you that the terrain doesn't matter in AV, that just like the other battlegrounds, it is all about player skill and gear. Certainly before and after the changes in patch 2.3, there has been a lot of AFKing on one side or the other, as well as many players who whine, or don't even try to win if they perceive their faction has even a slight disadvantage. But according to current reports from players, we can see more than ever before that one side has the opportunity to completely shut out the other, to take all the bonus honor for themselves and leave none for their opponents. It's less a matter of skill, and more a matter of whether the Horde decides to defend Iceblood or not. Even Blizzard agrees, and has started making minor changes to AV already.
In those battlegroups where the Horde and Alliance have a somewhat more even win/loss ratio, the Horde is choosing to race to the finish rather than shut the Alliance out at Iceblood -- effectively giving the Alliance a chance to win on purpose (or else out of ignorance of their advantage). In those battlegroups where the Alliance no longer signs up for Alterac Valley, and the Horde win 100% of the time, they are relishing in the ease with which they can set up their own northward attack and destroy the Alliance offense in just a few important battles near the beginning of each match. The Alliance decides not to play a hopeless game, and the Horde has to wait an hour or two in the queue for each guaranteed win.
Unfortunately, if the Horde want to keep playing Alterac Valley more than once every two hours, they have to start by giving the Alliance a chance to get going at Iceblood and at least get some honor for themselves. Horde who shut out the Alliance completely may feel very happy with themselves -- perhaps even justifiably so in some cases -- but they're doing themselves a disservice in the long run. Losers who gain nothing from a battle don't come back to lose over and over again, no matter how much they love the game.
In principle, the addition of reinforcements is good for Alterac Valley -- the possibility of an indefinite stalemate is bad for any battleground. But the map was designed around a "kill the general" game, not what we have today. Thus, changing the rules for winning the game has completely changed the game itself, and a previously minor map imbalance has become the most important spot in the game: Iceblood graveyard is the new pivot of Aterac Valley, and the Horde gets there first.
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, PvP, Battlegrounds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
DavidC Jan 28th 2008 2:12PM
Missed this post, but somebody linked on WoW forums ...
Some good illustrations, but most of the commentary is trash.
Horde have an initial map advantange in that we get to take more stuff sooner then Alliance does. Once alliance caps snowfall, the terrain advantage goes to the Alliance.
In particular the 2nd to last GY is much easier for the alliance to take then the same on horde side ... and the last GY is much much easier for the alliance to take then horde to take.
The mere fact that Horde gets hit by archers when trying to cap Aid Station and the Alliance doesn't is HUGE.
Anyways ... I don't know why I bother coming to this site, a large chunk of the bloggers here don't have a clue.
Wild Feb 1st 2008 1:13AM
Very well written article.
I've played in AV since before and after the patch and I've seen my share of wins and losses, both on my Alliance server and my Horde server, yes I play both but mostly Horde. I've not lost a single match on my Horde since about a month before 2.3 but that could've just been luck. I will agree that Alliance do have a slight disadvantage in that we can get to IBGY and such first. There is one thing that Alliance could do and that is continue queueing...I know that they don't win but the thing is that they will if things continue as they are. In my battlegroup, all Horde does is go on Offense with about five people sitting back and screaming at everyone for not going on Defense. All Alliance have to do is realize that there are like 35 people up at the top and no one on defense to be able to go around this massive force. There is one thing that I've always heard while I'm playing AV and that is that if Galv dies then we are screwed. That is quite true. So if Alliance ignore the mass and just go around where there is no defense it would be a lot easier to win an AV. Right now, when I'm on Offense, all I see is Alliance grinding honor. It's not that fun anymore. I love battlegrounds where you are not sure who is going to win and with the way that Horde is playing, our own hubris is going to get the better of us. We know we are going to win. I used to go into AV everyday and now if it isn't a daily I won't bother. Where is the fun in knowing that you are going to win?
Lunawind Feb 3rd 2008 7:15PM
On Stormstrike I see the IB choke at its best every day. If we D up we eventually get driven out of the midfield objectives because they are spread out. If we rush we might get some through but its a huge load on the healers to make a southern graveyard cap survive.
The one weakness I see in the Horde's IB Choke strat is it is often accompanied by the blitz offensive sweep that can get overextended. I have been trying to push two strats that take advantage of the Horde's rush to start the siege at DB.
Trap:
Send 10 to Balinda, Send 20 up high road to camp above IWB. Send 10 to DB side of our bridge. Early rezzes also go to DB. Do NOT defend SPGY.
If uncontested the horde will sweep over IWB hill. Wait on the hill and sweep down and close their retreat. Recap IWB, SHGY, SFGY SHB. You now have blocked their main group at SPGY between two horrible chokes in their eagerness to blitz DB. For turtle insurance put some locks in with Balinda for offensive summons.
Circle
You could perhaps lay a similar trap by sending all units over the top of SFGY and having the majority circle back thru SHB, SHGY and IWB. Early deaths must leave SPGY as a free horde cap.
Main hurdle to either is I think it is impossible for an Alliance mount to actually ride north. They are south-bound only.
Lunawind Feb 4th 2008 3:20PM
Now it looks like Blizz wants to totally discourage any rush tactic with 2.4 changes. The stakes for tower defense and capture will rise considerably. For PVP sake this has great potential. For Stormstrike Alliance I predict further disaster. Too many restless types that have never seen the inside of a tower in the name of defense.
Basic 2.4 changes.
1. Recent HP buffs to Balinda and Vann will be removed.
2. Balinda will have damage buffs, "been studying her spellbook" .
3. Horde start point to be moved back.
4. Captains and Generals receive a stacking buff for each tower standing.
Kaera Feb 10th 2008 5:05AM
Since no one seems to have noticed, but SFGY caps after an irregular 5 mins instead of 4. I've noticed this because even after my DBM bar disappeared, it wouldn't cap for a while. It seems this is due to the GY being neutral in the beginning and would take an extra minute.... In lot of cases, the allys in our Battlegroup get nuked there and rez at SPGY. End of game.
gounndyy Feb 9th 2008 4:19AM
Although alot of people might think it’s a load of crap,
Its true. AV is being boycotted (mainly in bloodlust
And storm strike). I play alliance on frostmourne and Av isn’t even considered a BG anymore. (We call it free horde honour). Although there are obvious map imbalances favouring the horde now, there are new strategies to win. But in one-way AV is broken. Broken many alliance players ego to get off their arses and start trying.
A while ago I played an AV game and the result is always the same. A turtle match guaranteeing a horde win. We start off the game by zerging IB. At the same time we loose Stone hearth and half of our O goes to kill Galv. Then we realize that O attacking IB isn’t big enough then they die (because of the horde D) and get sent back to DB GY. Then the O attacking Galv die and are also dent back to DB GY. After this the horde attempt to push DB. Problem is 100% of alliances are also at DB. So we then get a boring struggle between horde and alliance just outside of DB. We then loose to reinforcements. For 0 HONOUR. The games usually last bout 1 hour if you don’t afk out. So most people are smart enough not to waste there time.
Dir Apr 4th 2008 1:25PM
Alright, first off, he doesn't list several of the key factors in this. There are roughly, if the horde bothered to defend at key choke points, Five choke points for the alliance back to back. The first starts at Galv, the second IBGY, the Third depends on weather or not we're being nubs --ees joke we're always nubs-- and the fourth happens to be the entrance to the camp, the camp's bunker and the gate the where the main base is.
Pretty much the fact remains you're going through, if you don't use his maps logistical data and know the Alliance tends to AVOID riding on the other side because you guys are there, you'll only see about three of the major Choke Points. If you're playing a Defensive Game, you've pretty much won due to LoS issues in each of the bunkers, the fact that your stick walls count as thick walls allowing for ranks of Horde to fall back, note who to assist train on, and just blow away a single Ally at a time. It's slow, but it's the way the horde, normally, wins on the server I am on.
The AV premades that happen? Well, I can't stop it, but being the fact Emberstorm is a noob group and the gear discrepancy for PvP is so high, although Moonguardians have great gear which is interesting to me. At any rate, the Horde and the Alliance -SUCK- gear wise. The alliance, normally, suck more. So it's not only the fact that the alliance is 90% noobs, it's why we lose this is PvE PvP baby, it's also the fact that, as a PvPer, the horde just have better gear than most people. No QQ here, keep it up, I want a challenge.
Diraga - Quel'Dorei
Sameil Apr 19th 2008 7:11PM
I'm unsure if this was posted before, but from reading the majority of it, I would wager it hadn't. (I get bored easily), I maybe biased, or may not be, but I do play an alliance toon. But what about having the IBGY moved OUTSIDE the chokepoint, to match stonehearth. That would force the horde to defend EITHER the gy or the chokepoint. But, would still allow them relativily easy defense of either location. It would allow alliance players a chance to push their oppenents back, and allow the defenders which SHOULD be stronger to get reinforcements sooner. Thing about the Iceblood chokepoint is that it blocks the entire Southern half of the map, for only Alliance players, because of the one-way drop on the other side, next to the graveyard allows the controlling party of the graveyard an out. As well as, possibly adding a similar one way drop for alliance near stonehearth. Because if horde own stonehearth, they will chase any player trying to make a run for it and send them back to stormpike. In my oppinion everything else balances itself out. Stormpike graveyard is just as easy to take as frostwolf graveyard. Horde ninja's towers just like alliance do. Just a thought.
marnok Apr 23rd 2008 10:52AM
I don't think it is unbalanced in the horde's favor. As proof of my belief in that sentiment. I propose that blizzard flip the map, allowing the horde to play from the alliance side.
If it's so imbalanced let's see if the win ratio changes with the map flipped.
Joolz Jan 16th 2008 2:22PM
Gee, I wonder if this writer plays alliance or horde, haha.
Makros Jan 16th 2008 4:58PM
This is one of the best, most thought out articles I have seen on this problem. You could argue that this is more Alliance QQ, but even if thats true where does his argument fall short? Horde or Alliance he makes a great point.
Sean Riley Jan 16th 2008 5:34PM
This is the guy who does the regular roleplay column. You really think he limits himself to either faction? RPers are, as a rule, incurable altaholics.
matt Jan 16th 2008 10:19PM
while I agree the lay out of AV is an issue playing horde in av for 2 years I have no sympathy at all for the alliance. And the Horde AV que's in my battle group(Cyclone) are almost instant. I would also add that the "bottleneck" At frostwolf is still easy to get around by jumping the fence. Also if you just stand at the flag at iceblood Grave yard you still can't defend the gap nearly as well stormpike.
If you ask me the alliance problem is there are starting to have a bigger AFK problem than the horde in AV at least thats what I see when I'm playing.
I will give you this Stoneheath needs to be moved back or the horde starting area to let the alliance have a fair chance at defending it.
Koronus Jan 18th 2008 1:51AM
The only thing ive wondered about this supposed imbalance is that IB is supposed to be easy to retake from the south. Well so is SH but from the north. In the midst of a large horde offensive push to Dun Baldar, the alliance can utilize the eastern pass directly south of their starting point. It can easily be used to conduct a surprise attack on the by then horde controlled SH GY, thus sending the entire horde offence back to IB GY once they die.
P.S. Im a rogue so i always try to ninja the Dun Baldar towers/gy, something that became FAR easier in 2.3. I just dont see the alliance taking advantage of this as much as they should. It forces the other side to dedicate several people just to eliminate one player causing trouble far behind the front lines.
SPECIAL FORCES FTW >=D
Callandra Jan 16th 2008 2:22PM
Why don't they randomly switch the location of all alliance/horde objectives along the East-West axis...
Half the time Alliance would start in the same place they do currently, half the time they would start where the horde do currently...eliminate these map balance issues in one fell swoop
Hokuto Jan 16th 2008 2:30PM
Then people will start blaming their luck. No matter where they start on, they'll say that area is unbalanced.
sidereal Jan 16th 2008 2:24PM
Interesting article, but my biggest complaint with Av currently has less to do with geometry, and more to do with premades. I remember patches ago with the join as group function was removed (and for good reason) - so if people were to continue queuing up 37-40 players from the same server - would that be considered an exploit?
It's frequent enough a problem that I usually avoid AV altogether. For my battle group, it's Horde that group up for AV (I'm sure it works the other way around elsewhere): so if this article is correct, not only are they getting a logistical advantage, but also no slap on the wrist for group queuing?
p3ngu11 Jan 16th 2008 2:38PM
it has been stated in blue on the WoW forums that using a mod to coordinate bg queues is not an exploit.
some people won't play because of premades
some people will only play because they are in a premade
you can't always make everyone happy
Matt Jan 16th 2008 3:10PM
never been in a AV premade...then again ive never lost an AV...so there ya go...horde ftw??
George M. Jan 16th 2008 2:24PM
This article points out the the most obvious truth in warfare, "geography matters."