The AV map imbalance in patch 2.3
Alterac Valley has never been completely balanced. Before patch 2.3, most people generally agreed that the map favored the Alliance, but now, we can see that it favors the Horde. The difference mainly lies in which parts of the map are most important, and how either side can use the terrain differences to win the game. Before, the only way to win the game was to kill the opposing faction's general; anything less was effectively an on-going stalemate. But now that we have reinforcements, the general will automatically die of grief and shame once too many towers fall and players bite the dust, regardless of whether he's actually seen the enemy or not. This seemingly simple shift has totally turned the faction imbalance on its head, and placed the game entirely in Horde hands to prosecute as they choose. Assuming a relative equality of gear, player skill and morale (and of course AFKers), the Horde can decide to make AV a slow but certain victory, or else toss the dice and make it a quick but uncertain race to the end.
Keep reading to see how they do it, and why the Horde can't play their ultimate best if they want to play at all.
As you can see on the map above, the Horde and Alliance each have two major territories, one for each captain and general. Each territory has its bottlenecks that force attackers and defenders into certain places, and three of the barriers involved can be passed going one way but not going the other. Each team's offense must progress through two stages in order to reach the opposing general and destroy all the towers. Both the Horde and Alliance ideally have some players on offense and some on defense, but as we'll see shortly, these territories are far from equal when it comes to how easily they can be defended. The Horde has a very strong frontal defense near their captain, but a somewhat weaker defense near their general -- the Alliance on the other hand, has a very strong defense around their general, but their captain's territory is effectively free for the taking.
To the left we see the Alliance captain's territory, Stonehearth. The entire area is wide open except for a narrow pass in the north, just near Icewing Bunker. There is minimal natural terrain blocking off access to any of the objectives, or forcing the attackers into a certain position. The graveyard can be approached from two major directions, and it is comparatively easy to capture. Defending it simply takes too many players, so Alliance usually doesn't bother. Stonehearth bunker, in particular, is so far south that the Horde can actually reach it first at the game's outset. If the Alliance wants to defend it, the only way is to take it back after the Horde has already been there.
Iceblood, on the other hand, is mostly closed off to entry from the north. While the Horde captain and the first tower are accessible, the Iceblood graveyard is nestled behind a convenient hill, creating a bottleneck very close to the resurrection point. Just a few Horde players defending any objective from there can seem like many, because after they die they come back to the battle so quickly. By contrast, the nearest graveyard to the north is the neutral point, Snowfall, which the Alliance must wait 4 minutes in order to actually make use of, and which is farther away from any Iceblood objectives in any case. At the start of the game, the Horde can wait for the Alliance in Iceblood tower, the graveyard bottleneck, or their captain's bunker, and then get right back into the action within a minute if they die.
Iceblood graveyard is by far the strongest place on the map for the Horde. It is perfectly positioned for defense of the Horde captain's territory, as well as for an offensive push into Stonehearth. In addition, even if the Horde does not defend it initially, Iceblood is relatively open for them to recapture from the south, even after the Alliance forces have been there. This recapture is especially easy if the Alliance offense is split up trying to kill the Horde captain and take both the two towers. Once the Horde taps Stonehearth graveyard, the entire Alliance offense is sent back all the way to Dun Baldar.
This Alliance home base is much easier for them to defend. Its strength matches or surpasses that of Iceblood. Before patch 2.3, Horde would find themselves having a hard time at the Stormpike graveyard bottleneck, and an even harder time getting past the Dun Baldar bridge into the Alliance general's base area. When killing the general was all that mattered, the Alliance defense could do very well just holding off the enemy here. But now that running out of reinforcements ends the game, the Alliance no longer has sufficient time to get enough players back on offense once their first attempt has failed. Remember that bottleneck in the northern half of Stonehearth? It has no use for the Alliance, but now the Horde can use it to lock them completely inside Dun Baldar. Not only is Stonehearth difficult to defend from the initial onslaught, but in the hands of the Horde, it prevents all but a trickle of Alliance players from having a second chance. The Horde thus secures a guaranteed victory by taking at least two towers and killing the Alliance captain, then fighting as far as they can till reinforcements run out.
The Horde general's area, on the other hand, is certainly weaker than Dun Baldar, but this hardly matters once the Alliance has been trapped north of Stonehearth. Only if the Horde is too late to defend Iceblood does the southern terrain of their territory turn against them. The Alliance can attack the Frostwolf graveyard from multiple directions if they have enough players in the area, or they can just ride past the graveyard into the Horde general's home base. There is a bottleneck leading into this base, but it lacks the direct line-of-sight advantages of the Dun Baldar bridge, and it is a bit more difficult for the Horde to take advantage of. None of this matters, however, if the Alliance doesn't have enough numbers there, or if the Horde offense has already made a strong push into the Dun Baldar area. If the Horde sets the Alliance back at Iceblood -- and they can without too much effort -- the game is already over, though it may take 20 or 30 minutes of turtling to finally run out of reinforcements. In the end, the Alliance will get very little honor, and the Horde will get a great deal. Some people will try to tell you that the terrain doesn't matter in AV, that just like the other battlegrounds, it is all about player skill and gear. Certainly before and after the changes in patch 2.3, there has been a lot of AFKing on one side or the other, as well as many players who whine, or don't even try to win if they perceive their faction has even a slight disadvantage. But according to current reports from players, we can see more than ever before that one side has the opportunity to completely shut out the other, to take all the bonus honor for themselves and leave none for their opponents. It's less a matter of skill, and more a matter of whether the Horde decides to defend Iceblood or not. Even Blizzard agrees, and has started making minor changes to AV already.
In those battlegroups where the Horde and Alliance have a somewhat more even win/loss ratio, the Horde is choosing to race to the finish rather than shut the Alliance out at Iceblood -- effectively giving the Alliance a chance to win on purpose (or else out of ignorance of their advantage). In those battlegroups where the Alliance no longer signs up for Alterac Valley, and the Horde win 100% of the time, they are relishing in the ease with which they can set up their own northward attack and destroy the Alliance offense in just a few important battles near the beginning of each match. The Alliance decides not to play a hopeless game, and the Horde has to wait an hour or two in the queue for each guaranteed win.
Unfortunately, if the Horde want to keep playing Alterac Valley more than once every two hours, they have to start by giving the Alliance a chance to get going at Iceblood and at least get some honor for themselves. Horde who shut out the Alliance completely may feel very happy with themselves -- perhaps even justifiably so in some cases -- but they're doing themselves a disservice in the long run. Losers who gain nothing from a battle don't come back to lose over and over again, no matter how much they love the game.
In principle, the addition of reinforcements is good for Alterac Valley -- the possibility of an indefinite stalemate is bad for any battleground. But the map was designed around a "kill the general" game, not what we have today. Thus, changing the rules for winning the game has completely changed the game itself, and a previously minor map imbalance has become the most important spot in the game: Iceblood graveyard is the new pivot of Aterac Valley, and the Horde gets there first.
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, PvP, Battlegrounds
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 9)
Rusalka Jan 17th 2008 7:14PM
Thanks for this wonderful article -- very clearly explained and rationally reasoned.
(and yes, I play Horde)
GameJunkie Jan 16th 2008 2:25PM
The Blizzard devs are a bunch of lazy idiots. They do re-designs without factoring the map imbalances into account.
I say remove reinforcements and make AV fun again.
Bring back HK for bonus honor. I don't care about HK farming, it prevents AFK because people can get honor by killing stuff instead of standing there and leech.
JPN Jan 16th 2008 2:25PM
My head is spinning...
Green Armadillo Jan 16th 2008 2:25PM
This is great commentary. The AV map is effectively designed to result in a stalemate between SP and SH GY's. The only reason why the Horde used to lose AV is because forcing a turtle actually made the battleground's lone win condition harder by forcing the Alliance to defend their base.
Jimi Jan 16th 2008 2:46PM
It used to be that Alliance won 80% of the game. But Horde still qued up because they still got a fair amount of honor even in losing. This is not the case anymore as a lose only nets about 20 honor. Thus, why there are 2 hour ques now and not as long back in the old days.
I feel no sympathy to alliance losing all the time b/c it was about time they saw the sharp end of the stick, but I do understand why they don't que anymore.
Theserene Jan 16th 2008 2:27PM
Obviously not played AV in our battlegroup - Horde NEVER win.
Grant Jan 16th 2008 3:03PM
Ruin battlegroup?
SaintStryfe Jan 16th 2008 3:20PM
I play in Ruin too. For about 2 weeks after 2.3 dropped, Allies lost almost every time. It took a few weeks, but now most of us have gotten the idea, and I haven't lost in a blow out since.
It can be won. It IS harder now. But I also think it's now more interesting.
Angelus Jan 16th 2008 3:51PM
This was a very good topic on what your talking about: http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/01/10/breakfast-topic-how-is-your-pvp-battlegroup-doing/
He mentions it above. In alot of cases I dont see a map imbalance as much as I see one faction just dominate another faction. Horde side Shadowburn, for example, dominates Alliance. The Alliance side on Ruin dominate the Horde. Why is this? It raises questions other than the map.
George M. Jan 16th 2008 2:27PM
I think AV is fine the way it is. The more changes Blizzard makes, the less satisfied we will all be.
AV brings the "War" to Warcraft.
No one said war has to be fair.
Hank Jan 16th 2008 2:37PM
Of course not! Think of how much easier the Germans could have had it in WWII if England wasn't surronded by water.
Matthew Rossi Jan 16th 2008 3:23PM
It is, however, still a game and not actual war. I'm not forced to do it. My horde characters don't queue up much anymore because AV was the BG I enjoyed and now I can't get a game.
Phargus Jan 16th 2008 2:29PM
I'm seeing more and more that ppl are realizing the importance of D at IB in AV now. Not as many as I would like, but more than before. D wins games (from an honor standpoint at least). I still love my O for charging north, but a strong D is absolutely invaluable now. Horde wins 8 out of every 10 games on my server (at least)...and I feel bad for the alliance for a second or two...then I get over it and count my honor points.
Invictus Jan 16th 2008 2:29PM
I guess you play Alliance. You conveniently left out the point that all the defense in Frostwolf keep doesn't matter, because Alliance rarely ever goes through the front between the towers, and when they do, they just race straight to the Horde Relief Hut....better yet, they take advantage of the map and NINJA the Relief Hut, usually within 5 minutes into the game.
That used to matter a lot, when the only objective was killing the boss, when Alliance could bypass essentially the entire map and ninja their way to victory.....where were you crying about map imbalance then? For that matter, has Blizzard EVER addressed this issue and added measures to prevent this loophole? No.
And now you complain the map is not in your favor. It's valid, don't get me wrong, I just find it funny when it is in your favor, there is no argument as to how to best repair it. Again, the complete lack of mention of how Alliance can just NINJA into our base and take our Relief Hut shows this article is again more about Alliance whining and less about map balance.
And FYI, the main reason Alliance no longer queues for AV isn't because they keep getting beat. Alliance can, and does, win if they learn to adapt to the map. Everytime 2 or your rogues or druids decides to go down and ninja the Horde Relief Hut, even though this strategy isn't working anymore.....is 2 less people on your offense or defense. Alliance just doesn't play any semblence of defense anymore.
The main reason Alliance doesn't queue anymore is because you no longer get much honor for losing, plain and simple. When the map favored Alliance, Horde would still queue up for your ninja/steamroll because we still got some honor out of it. Now, if Alliance loses, you get almost nothing for 30 minutes of play, which I think is unfair. If Blizzard would restore some honor for losses, I doubt you would have much more to whine about. If you don't like AV, queue elsewhere. What do you think Horde was doing all of last year?
Alch Jan 16th 2008 2:52PM
I am going to agree with Invictus here. The map does have issues but I think you were only looking at it from the Ally point of view.
Most of the smart Ally teams just get behind the hoard forcing them to draw back their D. From your second tower all the way to Van is one choke point. The Ally can set up D at any point and close off the Hoard.
This wouldnt be an issue if people werent so use to PVE and they think they can pull every player instead of charging pass to the GY but I am sure both sides have that issue.
Nothing drives me crazier than watching 5 Hoard try and kill one Ally who is in the middle of nowhere while the rest of the team die at the GY.
David Bowers Jan 16th 2008 2:59PM
The thing where Alliance comes and ninjas the relief hut only works if the Horde doesn't defend it sufficiently, especially starting from Iceblood. The ninja squad is usually quite small to begin with, and a Horde defense team that reacts quickly enough will secure a certain victory for themselves. I have also seen games where the Horde ninjas the Alliance Aid Station, though it does happen less often because of NPC aggro issues.
The Horde can and did use these same tactics I outline in the article to win in some games before patch 2.3. But the problem was that doing it then was counter-intuitive, because everyone just had the goal of killing the general in mind, not defending some random towers. Also, even though it didn't prevent a stalemate, it at least gave the Horde a good starting lead.
The Alliance does have an advantage in many current race-to-the general situations when the Horde does not defend IB. The intricacies of this imbalance would take another article to explain clearly, but I imagine it's obvious to many of you from playing the game and looking at the maps above. Not defending IB means losing their strongest point, so of course the Horde has a disadvantage there -- still, sometimes the Alliance doesn't defend DB either, and the Horde just walk right in! Race games are low on defense all around, a real toss up.
In the end, as long as both winners and losers are getting honor, there should still be people queueing up, no matter who wins. Horde rarely loses so badly that they get nothing at all.
Fireflash38 Jan 16th 2008 3:16PM
There is still an easy way for alliance to get past IBGY and ninja the RH. All that you have to do is have some semblance of order, and zerg past the GY at the same time. Without half of the horde team there you can not stop that many people, and thus they get through and grab the RH.
Personally, what pisses me off more, is 90% of the BG's I play have an Alliance premade. EotS, AB, and AV. It isn't so bad in EotS or AB, but in AV I just waited 1 hour just to lose.
Anyway, why the fuck are Alliance bitching so badly about losing, Horde lost for over a year, get used to it, learn some strategies to gain honor (guard teh towers you take).
Algorithm Jan 16th 2008 4:42PM
I would like to point out that the so-called "ninja" you are speaking of is completely faction independent. I have seen my horde team do the same exact thing.
Second of all, I don't see how this article is biased significantly by the faction of the person who wrote it. (with one exception: the speculation of why the horde rush) I genuinely feel that the horde rush, because the game of Alterac Valley, for many players, isn't about reinforcements or killing the general-nor was it ever. AV's objective is maxamizing honor/time.
The horde constantly complained that the map was imbalanced incessantly before BC. The new AV has a dominant horde strategy that uses map geography to consistently win. This article does a good job of explaining it.
Algorithm Jan 16th 2008 5:14PM
Also, I don't see anything wrong with the Alliance complaining now that the map is unfair.
I heard a lot of Warlocks saying that Warlocks used to be weak pre-BC, and it is only fair that now they're overpowered. I bet you 8/9 classes aren't entirely ok with that logic.
Aigarius Jan 16th 2008 6:12PM
If Alliance 'ninja' the FW RH graveyard then a few horde defenders can easily get it back. I myself was in a game recently where more than 10 Alliance players rushed to Frostwolf, arrived at the relief hut and started capturing it. However, during the few next minutes a few dedicated Horde defenders (5 at most) killed the attackers one by one. This was easy because any killed Horde would rez at FW GY while any killed Alliance went to SH GY (or at best to SF GY). Getting back to FW was basically impossible on your own because of the blockade at IB GY. The 5 Horde easily killed more than Alliance 'ninjas' and recapped the FW RH with ease.