The AV map imbalance in patch 2.3
Alterac Valley has never been completely balanced. Before patch 2.3, most people generally agreed that the map favored the Alliance, but now, we can see that it favors the Horde. The difference mainly lies in which parts of the map are most important, and how either side can use the terrain differences to win the game. Before, the only way to win the game was to kill the opposing faction's general; anything less was effectively an on-going stalemate. But now that we have reinforcements, the general will automatically die of grief and shame once too many towers fall and players bite the dust, regardless of whether he's actually seen the enemy or not. This seemingly simple shift has totally turned the faction imbalance on its head, and placed the game entirely in Horde hands to prosecute as they choose. Assuming a relative equality of gear, player skill and morale (and of course AFKers), the Horde can decide to make AV a slow but certain victory, or else toss the dice and make it a quick but uncertain race to the end.
Keep reading to see how they do it, and why the Horde can't play their ultimate best if they want to play at all.
As you can see on the map above, the Horde and Alliance each have two major territories, one for each captain and general. Each territory has its bottlenecks that force attackers and defenders into certain places, and three of the barriers involved can be passed going one way but not going the other. Each team's offense must progress through two stages in order to reach the opposing general and destroy all the towers. Both the Horde and Alliance ideally have some players on offense and some on defense, but as we'll see shortly, these territories are far from equal when it comes to how easily they can be defended. The Horde has a very strong frontal defense near their captain, but a somewhat weaker defense near their general -- the Alliance on the other hand, has a very strong defense around their general, but their captain's territory is effectively free for the taking.
To the left we see the Alliance captain's territory, Stonehearth. The entire area is wide open except for a narrow pass in the north, just near Icewing Bunker. There is minimal natural terrain blocking off access to any of the objectives, or forcing the attackers into a certain position. The graveyard can be approached from two major directions, and it is comparatively easy to capture. Defending it simply takes too many players, so Alliance usually doesn't bother. Stonehearth bunker, in particular, is so far south that the Horde can actually reach it first at the game's outset. If the Alliance wants to defend it, the only way is to take it back after the Horde has already been there.
Iceblood, on the other hand, is mostly closed off to entry from the north. While the Horde captain and the first tower are accessible, the Iceblood graveyard is nestled behind a convenient hill, creating a bottleneck very close to the resurrection point. Just a few Horde players defending any objective from there can seem like many, because after they die they come back to the battle so quickly. By contrast, the nearest graveyard to the north is the neutral point, Snowfall, which the Alliance must wait 4 minutes in order to actually make use of, and which is farther away from any Iceblood objectives in any case. At the start of the game, the Horde can wait for the Alliance in Iceblood tower, the graveyard bottleneck, or their captain's bunker, and then get right back into the action within a minute if they die.
Iceblood graveyard is by far the strongest place on the map for the Horde. It is perfectly positioned for defense of the Horde captain's territory, as well as for an offensive push into Stonehearth. In addition, even if the Horde does not defend it initially, Iceblood is relatively open for them to recapture from the south, even after the Alliance forces have been there. This recapture is especially easy if the Alliance offense is split up trying to kill the Horde captain and take both the two towers. Once the Horde taps Stonehearth graveyard, the entire Alliance offense is sent back all the way to Dun Baldar.
This Alliance home base is much easier for them to defend. Its strength matches or surpasses that of Iceblood. Before patch 2.3, Horde would find themselves having a hard time at the Stormpike graveyard bottleneck, and an even harder time getting past the Dun Baldar bridge into the Alliance general's base area. When killing the general was all that mattered, the Alliance defense could do very well just holding off the enemy here. But now that running out of reinforcements ends the game, the Alliance no longer has sufficient time to get enough players back on offense once their first attempt has failed. Remember that bottleneck in the northern half of Stonehearth? It has no use for the Alliance, but now the Horde can use it to lock them completely inside Dun Baldar. Not only is Stonehearth difficult to defend from the initial onslaught, but in the hands of the Horde, it prevents all but a trickle of Alliance players from having a second chance. The Horde thus secures a guaranteed victory by taking at least two towers and killing the Alliance captain, then fighting as far as they can till reinforcements run out.
The Horde general's area, on the other hand, is certainly weaker than Dun Baldar, but this hardly matters once the Alliance has been trapped north of Stonehearth. Only if the Horde is too late to defend Iceblood does the southern terrain of their territory turn against them. The Alliance can attack the Frostwolf graveyard from multiple directions if they have enough players in the area, or they can just ride past the graveyard into the Horde general's home base. There is a bottleneck leading into this base, but it lacks the direct line-of-sight advantages of the Dun Baldar bridge, and it is a bit more difficult for the Horde to take advantage of. None of this matters, however, if the Alliance doesn't have enough numbers there, or if the Horde offense has already made a strong push into the Dun Baldar area. If the Horde sets the Alliance back at Iceblood -- and they can without too much effort -- the game is already over, though it may take 20 or 30 minutes of turtling to finally run out of reinforcements. In the end, the Alliance will get very little honor, and the Horde will get a great deal. Some people will try to tell you that the terrain doesn't matter in AV, that just like the other battlegrounds, it is all about player skill and gear. Certainly before and after the changes in patch 2.3, there has been a lot of AFKing on one side or the other, as well as many players who whine, or don't even try to win if they perceive their faction has even a slight disadvantage. But according to current reports from players, we can see more than ever before that one side has the opportunity to completely shut out the other, to take all the bonus honor for themselves and leave none for their opponents. It's less a matter of skill, and more a matter of whether the Horde decides to defend Iceblood or not. Even Blizzard agrees, and has started making minor changes to AV already.
In those battlegroups where the Horde and Alliance have a somewhat more even win/loss ratio, the Horde is choosing to race to the finish rather than shut the Alliance out at Iceblood -- effectively giving the Alliance a chance to win on purpose (or else out of ignorance of their advantage). In those battlegroups where the Alliance no longer signs up for Alterac Valley, and the Horde win 100% of the time, they are relishing in the ease with which they can set up their own northward attack and destroy the Alliance offense in just a few important battles near the beginning of each match. The Alliance decides not to play a hopeless game, and the Horde has to wait an hour or two in the queue for each guaranteed win.
Unfortunately, if the Horde want to keep playing Alterac Valley more than once every two hours, they have to start by giving the Alliance a chance to get going at Iceblood and at least get some honor for themselves. Horde who shut out the Alliance completely may feel very happy with themselves -- perhaps even justifiably so in some cases -- but they're doing themselves a disservice in the long run. Losers who gain nothing from a battle don't come back to lose over and over again, no matter how much they love the game.
In principle, the addition of reinforcements is good for Alterac Valley -- the possibility of an indefinite stalemate is bad for any battleground. But the map was designed around a "kill the general" game, not what we have today. Thus, changing the rules for winning the game has completely changed the game itself, and a previously minor map imbalance has become the most important spot in the game: Iceblood graveyard is the new pivot of Aterac Valley, and the Horde gets there first.
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, PvP, Battlegrounds
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 9)
George M. Jan 17th 2008 1:35PM
Alliance Special Forces (Rogues and Druids) can always take the RH. ASF! Hurrah!
1up Jan 16th 2008 7:57PM
"Unfortunately, if the Horde want to keep playing Alterac Valley more than once every two hours, they have to start by giving the Alliance a chance to get going at Iceblood and at least get some honor for themselves. "
Let alliance get a head start to a win?
Yea...we'll get right on that.
twh Jan 16th 2008 8:13PM
Enjoy waiting half a day for AV to pop, then.
Rudolphe Jan 16th 2008 2:35PM
i can see this one getting ugly fast
Rob Jan 16th 2008 2:36PM
The article is absolutely dead-on. When Horde defend their captain Galv with just a handful of key players, stick a defender or two in the towers, its game over alliance. We can't get to our captain in time, while they can. Its not fair that one side can completely determine the course of the battle if as little as 5 players decide to defend critical nodes. I've played in those games that last for an hour, and you have 100 honor and 1 mark to show for it, while horde has 1000+ honor and 3 marks to show for it. Next time that happens, I'll afk just to get out of the disaster, it'll be quicker than waiting 30 min or an hour for no honor.
However, in my battlegroup, alliance wins a majority of the time. So go figure! I guess horde aren't that smart on our battlegroup, or the good ones are too busy trashing us in AB or whatever.
I also agree that AV is usually just a race to the generals now instead of fighting over strategic nodes. Most times when we win I may encounter one or two horde which are quickly dealt with. So yeah the 'new improved' AV isn't all that much fun TBH. But the honor farming is better than the other 3 BGs.
Grant Jan 16th 2008 3:25PM
Sounds like you're in my battlegroup (Ruin), Rob.
On Ruin, Alliance probably wins 90%+ of the PUG vs PUG AVs, and much as this article suggests, the biggest problem we have as Alliance is when the Horde decide to set up some type of defense at Iceblood. A few defenders at Galv, and we fall apart.
I do want to point out that Dun Baldar (and particularly the Stormpike GY) aren't quite as impenetrable as the author here says. Coming under the Dun Baldar Bridge and attacking the GY from the rear makes defending it quite difficult. Once the allies lose the Stormpike GY, it's only a matter of time before it's all over. Thankfully, on our battlegroup, Allies are usually knocking on the Frostwolf Towers by this point, so a win isn't too far off.
Nomansland Jan 16th 2008 2:37PM
I'm an Alli player and i can say that this is usually how AV unfolds for me the majority of the time. We'll make an attempt at IBGY, sometimes we cap it, sometimes we don't. If we don't, its a slow turtle and a Loss for us. If we do, AND HOLD IT, then we'll win about 30% of the time... i've stopped playin AV, cause it's just not worth my time. Shame really, it used to be alot of fun.
Versai Jan 16th 2008 2:37PM
orly? because in my battlegroup we fscking suck and alliance win all the time.
Rick Jan 16th 2008 2:38PM
"Defending it simply takes too many players, so Alliance usually doesn't bother."
That is why you lose.
Hank Jan 16th 2008 3:04PM
People play DEFENSE????
twh Jan 16th 2008 3:34PM
We lose, in BG9 anyway, because too many of our team is AFK.
Seriously, how can you expect to beat two to one odds where manpower is vital to defense?
That's right, you can't!
So, I don't bother with it anymore, and now Horde are crying that they have to wait 2 hours or more to get their free honor, AGAIN!
David Bowers Jan 17th 2008 12:03AM
You're not really reading what I said. The Stonehearth graveyard is wide open to approach from the south and from the west. Horde players can waltz up and attack it en masse; therefore, if the Alliance wants to defend it, they need two or three times as many players that the Horde needs at Iceblood. Stonehearth is not a defensible position for the Alliance; to try would require too many players -- players who are desperately needed on offense to try and break through at Iceblood.
Not only that, but fighting the Horde at Stonehearth only sends even more of them back to Iceblood and makes entry there especially difficult. As I said, Iceblood is ideally positioned both for Horde defense of the south, and also Horde offensive push into the north.
Seriously, has anyone ever played a game where the Alliance successfully defended at Stonehearth the same way the Horde can shut them out at Iceblood?
Naturii Jan 16th 2008 2:38PM
Horde rarely win Pug's in the Vindication battlegroup. However our premade is 923-0 :)
Heartless_ Jan 16th 2008 2:40PM
This really only matters when you are talking about zergs of people that can't think outside of the idea of traveling from point A to B. I'm not bashing WoW's player base, but the instanced nature of battlegrounds has lead pretty zombie like behavior from even the best players.
AV has a bit of strategy to it now, but most players are still playing in zombie mode, unable to adapt. The Horde is playing the same way they have always played AV. Unfortunately for the Alliance, that means the Horde gets to win some now.
The only noticeable change is that people generally value their life a little bit and healers tend to heal random people. Oh and the never-ending matches are gone :P
Trepalium Jan 21st 2008 3:38PM
Actually, the Horde playstyle has changed quite a bit. I used to see people complaining whenever they saw people on defense before 2.3, and now I see calls for more people on defense post 2.3. And the "Stop playing! Let's just lose quick!" crowd is completely MIA.
I have to say that I like the mechanics behind AV now, although the implementation could still use some work. The map has never been ballanced, and the change to where you spawn when you die, along with the change to the objectives have simply made certain imbalances more important than others.
haha Jan 16th 2008 2:44PM
Translation: Alliance use to be able to leave 10 guys on D around SP gy and the bridge and let 30 guys rush to Drek and win every time. This once uber strat now fails miserably and ends up with games of 650+ honor for Horde and 0 honor for Alliance.
Alliance throw their hands up in the air and give up and just don't even play AV any more, even though admittedly the map used to favor them and the Horde slogged through it against the odds for years.
Maybe if the Alliance learned there is a point to hold and defending towers until they cap they wouldn't end up with 0 honor every game? Just a thought...
twh Jan 16th 2008 3:40PM
Translation:
I'm a basement dweller that makes generalizations without bothering to consider that it may vary from Battlegroup to battlegrop, where as one maybe have players that play it smart for honor for both sides, or play it stupid and hog all the honor, resulting in UNBEARABLE wait times because I'm too stupid to see the big picture.
Seriously, junior. Get over yourself.
p3ngu11 Jan 16th 2008 2:43PM
one other difference is NPCs
the horde bases NPCs don't aggro when you run through it (because you can run all the way around them), while the alliance NPCs do (they are right there by the flag...). it can make capping the aid station a bit tougher while the relief hut is like any other graveyard once you get to it.
SwiftBlue Jan 16th 2008 9:06PM
If you want to talk about our NPCs, then, ponder this.
Ally Captain: Cloth (4000 armor), 220,000 health (pre-Hotfix), and relies on totally interruptable spells.
Horde Captain: Plate (7000 armor), 260,000 health, and relies on heavy melee.
They can both be stunned.
Rick Jan 16th 2008 2:45PM
Alliance AV strat:
Group 1-2 - Complain about offense/defense
Group 3-4 - Assign blame. Capslock only please.
Group 5-6 - Assure people that you have the uber instances on farm and that we all suck except you and that Blizzard is out to get Alliance.
Group 7-8 - AFK out or jump to that WSG game that you've been waiting for