Officers' Quarters: Drawing the line
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.We often talk about our guilds as if they are families. A family would do anything for each other, wouldn't they? The writer of this week's e-mail asks, When it comes to helping your guildmates with real-life problems, where do you draw the line?
I've been reading your Officers' Quarters column, and I would like your input. I am a longtime (2 years plus) member of an Alliance guild and also a senior officer in a similar-sized Horde guild. In the Alliance guild, one of the members is a teenager who has also been in the guild for a long time. This guildie, along with his father, are well-known in the guild, but the teen is more known for his offensive and insulting behavior in guild chat and in raids. Several members of the guild have left specifically because of this kid. It's also known that he is on medication for behavioral problems. Despite his unpleasant behaviour, he has not been removed from the guild, which has caused a lot of friction.
In the Horde guild, there is a similar situation. One of our younger members is known to be having problems with his family, and in-game, he has been showing problems with anger management. This weekend, he crossed the line by being insulting and using unacceptable language. He was warned twice, and then quit the guild. Later, he apologized to one of the officers and wanted to rejoin the guild. I recommended against his reinstatement, and one of the officers (who previously mentored this kid) thought we should've given him a second chance. The whole incident left a bad feeling with me, because I see that this kid had problems at home, and enjoyed the social aspect of the guild. However, my experience in the Alliance guild showed me that retaining these types of members can seriously affect the guild.
Should guilds be responsible for looking after the real life emotional needs of its members? I know for some guildies, the guild fulfills a huge part of their daily interaction, and for some of those with personal problems or medical conditions, this is even more so. My question is this: where do guilds draw the line between being a 'family', and being a group of friends with a like-interest in WoW?
Cheers,
-- Uncaringbear
Allow me to begin with my own story about a similar situation. A long time ago, we had a member of the guild who stopped playing for a long time, and then returned one day. It's possible that he sold the account to someone else, because he acted somewhat differently from the way I remembered him. Our guild was massive back then, and it wasn't someone I knew very well. But I remembered that he had been a quiet player who went about his business, occasionally asking for advice or crafting help. When he came back, he spent most of his time online fishing for attention in an awkward way.
He would, without any prompting whatsoever, type out in /g something like this: "I wish I had a girlfriend." Or, worse, "Can somebody tell me how to stop feeling lonely?" The /g channel would go dead quiet. No one really knew what to say, and it wasn't a topic that you'd want to discuss in a public forum, anyway. If he was genuine, and not simply stirring up weirdness, he was obviously suffering from depression.
Several of our officers tried to help him. They'd have private conversations with him, trying to cheer him up and to figure out what was going on in his life. He'd give noncommittal answers that made them keep asking questions, doing his best to draw out the conversation. But nothing they said seemed to help him, and they couldn't get him to stop making the awkward comments in /g.
A few weeks went by, and he had become notorious in the guild. A lot of people felt sorry for him. Many were just sick of him and wanted me to kick him out of the guild. I refused to do it, fearing that we were his only social outlet and removing him from the community would make his situation even worse. Besides, he hadn't done anything against the rules. He just made people uncomfortable.
Eventually, he went off the deep end, and started making wild accusations about one of the officers being a racist. He wouldn't stop after repeated warnings and requests to calm down. He gave us no choice: We had to kick him. I haven't heard from him since, but I hope that whatever he's doing now, he's feeling better.
I learned a lesson, though: There's only so much you can do for someone in your guild. I like to think of my guild as a family, but the hard reality is, some people need way more help than a person can give in this context. Some people might need a parent's intervention, or professional counseling, or even medication. You can try to support them, but ultimately their problems are much more serious than you can fix.
That doesn't mean you should shun them, but it doesn't mean you should let them treat other people in the guild with disrespect, either. So there is a line, and you should make it clear to the person where that line is. Some people will intentionally test those limits, and some will cross the line to see what you do about it. If they're acting this way, you have to stick to your guns and do what you said you'd do. Some of those people will never come back. Some will realize you're serious and change their tune.
It sounds like the kid in Uncaringbear's Horde guild is the latter. In general, when the person apologizes like that, I'd recommend giving them a second chance. When they see that you mean what you say, they may -- emphasis on may -- stop testing you and behave. It's a risk of course. Your members might not share your patience with the situation. I'd also say that, in such a case, a second chance is all they should get.
Fortunately, these cases are the rare extreme. A guild can act as a family and help people through plenty of problems, even very serious ones. When my father passed away suddenly two years ago, my guildmates were incredibly supportive and really helped me through that difficult time, just by being there for me. We've supported people through everything from becoming a new parent to having their house destroyed. It's one of the best parts of being in a close-knit guild, so take advantage of it when you can!
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Guilds, Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Corv Jan 27th 2008 7:27AM
It's a difficult call sometimes.
The guild I'm currently in was brought into being when the 7 core members broke off from our old guild. I was a new recruit at the time and after a huge screaming match on vent one evening, the decision was made to split. We pugged and fit in where we could for months after that, and now finally we've found enough people to raid (mostly) as a guild without AFKs or pugging. I'm now one of only 4 other officers.
Guilds are founded under very different circumstances. When a guild is founded because 10 people were reasonably friendly with each other, the atmosphere is of a certain type. The same goes for guilds founded out of friends sharing in a traumatic experience - it was wondrful to have a /g again instead of using /6. We almost felt like refugees reunited.
We pledged to not be just another raiding guild. And we've been mostly successful in preserving the environment of fun that we all log in every day for. But we're getting larger now and recruiting more people to build a reliable raid base. The majority of players out there are loot-oriented and we've cycled a few members because we're not "hardcore" enough.
"Casual" is a bit of an ambiguity - we joke around on vent, but you can't be truly casual and still get stuff done. A few of us have put a lot of genuine effort into being the best that we can be for raids, and it's not entirely fair to be casual to the extent of not being serious. We've all got school and work and the time we can spend together is very limited.
In this "casual" setting, we've all become very familiar with each other. All of us have funny stories to tell or jokes, and we're all reasonably comfortable telling each other anything. This virtual world is fake, but the people are real. Nothing we do here matters, and yet we all put our time and effort into it. It's almost inevitable that personal lives come up, especially amongst good friends, and we've helped each other through some hard times.
The bottom line is, it depends completely on what your guild is for. If you're there to blast through raids and see new content, then you leave your problems at the login screen. In game, you are your character. You're a soldier and your mission is your raid. But in other cases, especially in smaller guilds where members have (interesting) lives, idle chatter about life and the world can be great fun. There's a balance in this case between defending the guild you helped create and expanding your perspective to other peoples' views of the game. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not.
higgo Jan 28th 2008 10:44AM
It makes me sad that so many people seem to take the "I pay money for this game and therefor I dont have to deal with disruptive elements" attitude. I pay money for a lot of things and it has nothing to do with it. It's "only a game" in one sense, but theres real people playing it and if you as a officer dont treat em as such then maybe you shouldnt be a officer in the first place.
Spad Jan 21st 2008 11:18AM
It depends on the situation. Kids definetly deserve a bit more patience and mentoring. They've not learned the "rules" of society or social ettiquete and I'd consider it my responsibility to take the higher ground and be mature. I'm not they should get away with anything they want, sometimes a gkick may be a good lesson in itself.
However adults and older kids (by which I'd say...aged 16 and up) being disruptive...one warning and you're out.
Kathlyn Jan 21st 2008 7:56PM
How come every time I hear about teenagers playing WoW it's in a bad light? The kids in my guild are most certainly more than alright.
Razhlok Jan 21st 2008 11:30AM
We don't get that involved in the personal lives of our members. If someone is being disruptive or has a mental defect that causes them to disrupt others in the guild then I'd rather not have that person in the guild. These are people I play a videogame with, they aren't my family, they aren't even on the same personal level as my co-workers. Decisions have to be made based soley on what's best for the guild. No exceptions.
illirien Jan 21st 2008 11:37AM
I think it's important to remember this is a game. All those people on the other side of the screen are real people, but the point of being in wow at the same time with those real people is to have fun. If someone is seeking emotional help from people in the game, they're looking in the wrong place. The best thing a responsible person can do is let them know this, in a kind way.
Mel Jan 21st 2008 11:37AM
And that right there is the reason why I don't allow kids in the guild as long as I don't get paid to nurture or babysit other people's brats. If someone has a problem he is better off with a professional shrink, not a guild full of people who don't have the slightest inkling about psychology.
Theserene Jan 21st 2008 12:42PM
And someone who is not a professional therapist could do more harm than good to an obviously damaged person. I agree, it is better that people with issues get them treated by professionals and not the guild priest...
Lucas Jan 21st 2008 2:16PM
You realize adults have mental problems too, right?
And seeing that there are more adults in the world than children, it would stand to reason to say there are more adults in wow who have mental problems than children in wow who have mental problems.
Age discrimination FTL
Miresa Jan 21st 2008 11:51AM
As a more mature player, I find that it doesn't take long for our younger guild members to single me out as someone they can confide in. As long as it doesn't take up too much of my time, I'm more than glad to "listen" to them and offer words of comfort or advice. I was a mess at that age, and would have loved having someone to stop and listen to me for a few minutes. Sometimes that's all it takes.
Naix Jan 21st 2008 11:52AM
Leave your problems at the login screen.
Jason Jan 21st 2008 12:15PM
It's a game. Kick his ass out. People pay for this game and should anyone in the guild seriously get in the way of their enjoyment as it seems this kid has i'd kick him in a heartbeat.
Slayblaze Jan 21st 2008 12:06PM
While I agree that sometimes the younger players can cause these kind of issues with the guild as many are pointing out, its not always just the younger players that have "maturity issues". I have been amazed several times how mature and well-mannered several of the younger players have been which I've grouped or been guilded with. I have also been equally amazed at how incredibly juvenile some of the older adult players can be. Especially in guild chat. As a guild officer there have been just as many times that I've had to step into guild chat and put a stop to the converstaion between the older members as there have been with the younger ones.
recrudesce Jan 21st 2008 12:08PM
@Miresa: completely agree. having gone through depression myself, it's a hell of a lot easier to say what you want via a text based medium - WoW gives you that social aspect at the same time it gives you the seperation from face to face communications. i have found that talking via a keyboard means you are less inclined to hide your emotions.
good on you for being there for other people if needed. i'm there for people now, much like they were there for me. i dont mind whether it's in person or in /g.
Chrissie Jan 21st 2008 12:30PM
i agree with mel!
people who are obviously depressed and 'seeking' the attention they have been neglected or whatever the reason may be cannot possibly get the 'fulfillment' they need from their guild mates.
i understand that many people use WOW as an escape, a getaway to release tensions and anxieties felt from their jobs and family, but what these individuals don't understand is that we all don't have the answers.
the guild i was in prior had an individual in it that suffered from low self-esteem and depression. he was a very lonely individual and felt like an outcast because of his lack of friends and disruptive family life. it wasnt his fault but he started to become dependent on the guild and when the guild slowly fell apart (gm switching servers didnt help lol) we all went our seperate ways.
the point is, a guild is not a therapist, teacher, doctor, clinician, counselor, or lawyer! if you need any sort problems related to the descriptions i just listed above, please contact one immediately in your local phone book or internet connection!
DavidC Jan 21st 2008 12:36PM
In general, when a kid joins a guild they need to be put on notice that their "age" is not an excuse for bad behavior. They will be expected tow-the-line. They may need a bit more guidance as to where that line is, but towing that line is not an option.
Officers should pull aside *ANY* guild member that is not acting appropriately and correct them. Everyone gets the same chance at taking correction regardless of age.
You correct them, in private ... if they continue with the bad behavior, then they are out. Regardless of the reason. You are NOT helping the kid by enabling him to be BAD ... you are actually hurting them.
Especially children with "difficulties" of some sort. They need to learn how to cope with society even though they have "difficulties". Politically correct tree hugging emo seal lovers might tell you they need "special consideration" ... but they don't.
It's more important for them to learn to cope with their "difficulty" and be a productive member of society then it is for them to be in "your guild".
In either case ... your not the parent so don't try to be. Mentoring is fine if they are open to it ... but your best course is to Set the Example and communicate what needs to be done ... then enforce those guidelines.
Theserene Jan 21st 2008 12:40PM
'They need to learn how to cope with society even though they have "difficulties".'
This comment is so full of win I cannot begin to describe it :)
Zegim Jan 21st 2008 5:43PM
I couldn't agree more.
Theserene Jan 21st 2008 12:39PM
I don't care if they ARE on medication for behavioral problems, it's still not an excuse for abusing other people.
I wouldn't accept that from a member of staff, I am sure as heck not accepting it from a guild member.
Behavioral problems, mental issues or just plain angst gives you no right to not act like a halfway decent human.
theRaptor Jan 21st 2008 7:48PM
Not giving consideration to illnesses which may cause someone to behave in a non-socially acceptable way, means you aren't a half decent human being.