Eureka! And other such moments of raiding brilliance
by Adam Holisky 
Jan 26th 2008 at 7:30PM
Let me set the stage for you: 25 people have been wiping for over 3 hours on Kael'Thas. Tempers are high, and patience is running low. People are consistently dying over the same mistake again and again, and there is no end in sight. But wait! You have a suggestion! With this suggestion of yours the raid is sure to get over this minor roadblock, and progress to the next stage of greatness. Now comes the hard part...How do you get your idea to the raid leader?
While often times it'll depend on what type of raiding culture your guild has, there's a few basic rules to follow.
First, never blurt a strategy out during the middle of a fight. If your guild is cool about talking out strategies over vent during raids, wait until the wipe is over to mention something. A lot of other folks are usually busy with things, even if you're dead (well, perhaps they're not busy enough!)
Second, it can never hurt to ask the raid leader permission to talk about your suggestion before you do. I find that in most raids I've been on, this is the best way to get something across. Most of the time it's greeted with a reply of "Of course, go ahead." However when the RL has something different in mind, it's his prerogative, not yours, to make the call.
Third, and perhaps the biggest, don't be a jerk about it. Much too often enemies are made out of friends by saying how such and such an idea is horrible. It never goes right, and the best thing to do is to present the idea like you're a money starved teenager asking your parents for cash.
We all have horror stories about people blurting out ideas at the worst time, and over-stressed raid leaders letting them have it. What are some of your war stories?
Filed under: Raiding
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jack Spicer Jan 26th 2008 8:24PM
When I was in a raiding guild that was working on progressing through content, I would post strategies, including pictures and maps on the guild website and see if it generated any discussion.
At first when I saw the title of this article, I thought it was referring to the phenomenon that some witness during a raid where you go from always wiping on a particular boss to suddenly being able to kill it with close to nobody dying, like all of a sudden something clicked and the encounter goes from impossible to farm. Eureka!
Fireflash38 Jan 26th 2008 9:37PM
I fully understand what you mean. For instance, when my guild was first starting Kara, we were having problems with Moroes. Now, we have 9-manned it with out any CC (just 1 trap) and 2 druids healing (one wearing half-feral gear). Alot of times I think it involves repetition, the more you do it (including wiping) the better you understand the fight and its nuances.
Kwinto@Shadowsong-EU Jan 29th 2008 6:56AM
Last night we came to see Solarian for the first time. After few first wipes we were almost sure that we need 25 attempts until first kill, so each one of us will learn that it's better to run away when debuffed than to listen to all the flames and blames after wipe. But suddenly, without any change in strategy, everything in next try went sooo perfectly smooth, so nice and easy, like it normally goes on Gruul farm.
KaelThas, here we come.
Richard Jan 26th 2008 9:40PM
"...even if your dead"
Wow. Just wow. Top notch editing there, folks.
ShuManFu Jan 26th 2008 10:04PM
This a blog not a newspaper.
I guess you are one of those annoying guys that always has one of those "I told you so." remarks after a wipe.
Richard Jan 26th 2008 10:09PM
Not at all... but I do know enough GRADE SCHOOL English to know when to use "your, you're", "there, their, they're" and "to, too, two"...
Guess I brought up some painful memories of failing remedial English, eh?
GG.
ShuManFu Jan 26th 2008 10:24PM
It's quite ironic how the article is about how to effectively convey your ideas to you peers.
If you were in my guild and behaved like this I would swiftly kick you from my raid, if you weren't the main tank. If you were the main tank I would then whisper you to stop behaving like a child and then quickly look for alternative players for your position.
There are effective ways of expressing your ideas.. and there are ways to talking like a 12 year old throwing their toys.
Which do you think you sound like?
Richard Jan 26th 2008 10:45PM
So you'd tell the MT to "behave" while all the while secretly look to replace him?
Wow, who's the 12 year old?
slux Jan 26th 2008 10:41PM
I don't know... I don't find it too much to ask that a blog ran by a company and with writers that get paid would have something resembling proper english.
I know it is a requirement they themselves list when looking for new bloggers anyway.
Richard Jan 26th 2008 10:45PM
Bravo. These people get paid because WE view the site and click the advertisements... is it too much to ask these people to have grasped the most basic usage of the English language?
They're professionals... they get PAID to blog. We SHOULD hold them to higher standards.
ErsatzPotato Jan 27th 2008 2:05AM
I agree, and briefly considered mentioning it, but decided it wasn't a big deal. Blog content is somewhat informal and the occasional slip doesn't matter. Lord knows I typo my share in the even less formal responses.
If we could get the site's writers to stop writing about "most unique" and "very unique" hunter pets, that'd earn a smile. I'd click some extra ads!
Taylor Jan 26th 2008 11:20PM
@Richard
you SHOULD shut up. i REALLY don't care. i don't think ANYBODY else really cares either. so GTFO nub
Taylor Jan 26th 2008 11:23PM
okay i take all of that back, and edit my @ to @ruby for the massive spam about w/e the hell that was for.
-Z- Jan 26th 2008 11:46PM
come on fellas, i was looking forward to actually reading about what the article and posters were going to say but instead i got a whole chunk of self-righteous dueling from people who have no respect for the time and patience the caretakers of this site put into making all this worth reading. may advice, go find someone who cares what you think and post in response to that in the appropriate place- not here.
gozerthagozerian Jan 27th 2008 6:03AM
The problem is almost every post has multiple grammatical and spelling errors, and every time someone points that out, they get flamed and modded down. It happens so much, I'm beginning to suspect it's the WoW Insider staff posting on alts.
As someone mentioned above, this is a commercial blog, and the writers and editors are supposed to be professionals. Unfortunately, most of the time the articles here are indistinguishable from rants on the official WoW forums.
Kadathwack Jan 26th 2008 11:58PM
First off, to Richard: Yes, it is rather embarrassing when you see someone make one of those classic mistakes, but don't pretend for a minute that it has never happened to you. No one's perfect.
As for the topic, I've seen both of those kind of things happen. Someone suggests a change in the strategy (and its always an incredibly minor one, isn't it?) and the fight suddenly becomes cake. Delicious, moist cake.
But I've also experienced that slightly-more-mystical switch, where nothing but "the same thing, but do it better" is said over Vent. That's how it was for my old guild when we were trying to get the pull in the High King Maulgar down. None of us are really sure what changed, but we went from near instant wipes to a very solid attempt.
Dave Jan 26th 2008 11:57PM
Honestly?
If your guild is wiping, and you have to tread on eggshells to suggest something in order to not wipe, you're better off with a /gquit after the raid and find some other group to raid with. Clearly you're not with friends, and you have a raid leader who has to act like a military dictator who can only be the one to call the shots.
It's a video game. It's not a job, it's not a political situation, it's not a chain of command. It's supposed to be fun, and if your guild leader is that much of a douchebag to not listen to suggestions without having to say pretty please and "if you don't mind a suggestion" etc etc, then screw that guild you're NEVER going to get anywhere with them.
Conversely, you have to be -direct- when you keep dying to the same mistakes. Instead of generic "guys we need to not do this and that" type things that can apply to multiple people you NEED to single people out and let them know personally where they're not doing things right and that they need to do it a different way. You don't have to do it in public over vent, but if you're going to be a passive raid leader who doesn't take suggestions from others and also doesn't call people out for their correctable mistakes, what the hell are you leading a raid for?
People might get their precious feelings hurt, but shiny purples tend to smooth things over for everyone. You're MUCH more likely to lose 10 members if you spend 3hrs wiping on a boss every time you try it, over losing a single emo kid after pointing out that they're doing something wrong.
A good leader knows that a team effort is collaborative and that everyone has to pull their own weight and that there's never a bad suggestion. Not everything has to be done, but I'd rather hear 10 ways of doing something from 10 different people and make an effort at each of them, rather than hope we hit a "eureka!" moment by magically figuring it out since someone's too butthurt to have a human conversation with someone else that might have a better idea.
This post pretty much just exemplifies everything that I think is wrong with raiding and raid culture these days. Most people who lead raids, are entirely unsuited to do so.
npm Jan 27th 2008 11:42AM
Totally agree with Dave here. My last guild was that way. Not only would the raid leaders ignore any suggestions, be they spoken verbally or sent in whispers, they'd go out of their way to do the opposite of the suggestion. I remember one time I asked for a small change in the raid markings so my rogue's kick cooldown would be available. I was overridden with the order that the paladins could instead coordinate their stuns. Well guess what? A stun was resisted, the other paladin had used theirs and my kick wasn't up. All because they couldn't be seen to accept a suggestion from a mere raid member? Sheer stupidity and arrogance.
James Jan 28th 2008 11:03AM
The first reason to go to the raid leader first is that just blurting out a strategy causes confusion. If some suggestion comes from Joe Raider and the raid leader doesn't address it, either they miss it or they say something else, you can easily end up with half the raid doing one strategy and half the raid doing another.
The second reason to go to the raid leader is that they're already thinking about what to change. Your idea generally only covers a part of what they're thinking of. They need to see how your suggestion fits into the strategy as a whole.
Now, a good raid leader should be easy to approach. They should give feedback on whether or not they'll try it. Don't get mad if they decide not to use your suggestion. And do get mad if they don't give you credit for the suggestion if they take it. I always give credit if somebody suggests something that works out well.
Sorosst Jan 27th 2008 12:04AM
They're professionals... they get PAID to blog. We SHOULD hold them to higher standards.
They do, day in and day out. That's why Wow Insider has such a high volume of consistently good posts.
Given the number of posts that go up on this page every day that are free of glaring grammatical errors, I think the writers and editors have MORE than earned an occasional mulligan. It's their job to police their own content; thus far I think they've put forth an admirable effort. It's not our job to call them out for their occasional lapses (unless and until they become more than occasional, that is).
Perfection is a fantastic goal but it's a lousy requirement because by definition it's impossible to achieve, at least consistently. The more posts there are on Wow Insider, the higher the likelihood that one (or more) of them will have a mistake. That's not a big deal. That's just the nature of everything under the sun. Demanding perfection will not yield perfection. The only sure fire result is eventual disappointment, every time.
So I say, back off. The writers and editors of this site do a damn fine job 7 days a week. That fact is borne out by the readers who come back, day after day. If you're like me, you come back because you think the information and commentary here are some of the best around. If you're coming back because you're looking to keep score on all of the grammatical errors you found that the writers and editors missed, I suggest you may be missing the point.