Blood Sport: Warrior-Druid overpowered?

Every Thursday, V'Ming - who thinks that gnome warlocks are travesties of nature and need to be KOSed - shares thoughts and ideas on becoming deadlier at the Arenas. He also dabbles in the dark arts in Blood Pact.
A quick look at the chart above and one thing clearly leaps out. Clue: it has to do with mortal strikes, HoTs and cyclones.
Well, every third team you meet nowadays in 2v2 will probably be a Warrior-Druid team. This comp (short for composition) seems to be running away with the 2v2 bracket currently: 20 of the top 50 US teams are Warrior-Druid comps - that's 40%. For teams with ratings greater than 2200, close to 30% are Warrior-Druid. They also make up almost a quarter of all 2v2 teams, regardless of rating. That's a lot of Warrior-Druid teams.
What makes the comp tick?
In this comp, the Warrior is obviously the main, durable source of almost inexhaustible DPS. The Druid, usually specced resto (8/11/42), adds to the Warrior's survivability and brings versatility to the team. The win condition of this comp is simple: outlast their opponents.
The Warrior-Druid team will generally open with the Druid stealthed in cat form. This effectively hides the higher priority (healer) target from the other team, until heals are called for. The Warrior can usually hold the fort for a few seconds, while dismantling softer targets of the other team: clothies or other healers. They generally want to establish control while surviving as long as possible before their teammates step in with some healing love.
Resto druids are extremely mobile healers, with fire-and-forget HoTs cast on the go, travel form to zip around maps and immunity to polymorph. Their mobility is augmented by various abilities to immobilize threats: roots, cyclone, maim, and even bash and charge in bear form. Their job in the Arena is largely defensive and evasive - staying out of trouble by using LOS and CC abilities. That said, a well-timed CC on the other team's healer can be a devastating offensive move by this versatile class.
A match against a Warrior-Druid team often feels like the Warrior is unkillable, with the wily healer just prancing out of reach and LOS. This often forces their opponents to blow their cooldowns in an effort to burst down either, which is probably what the Warrior-Druid team wants. The premise of the team, after all, is to survive everything their opponents throw at them while maintaining a healthy mana for the Druid, so that the Warrior can continue to DPS the way to victory.
In a gaming environment, when one archetype is prevalent, we can expect a second archetype to emerge as an answer or counter to the dominant archetype. Looking at the three most popular team comps at the top of the 2v2 bracket, we have:
Warrior-Druid 29.5% (-4.5% from last week)
Rogue-Priest 15.2% (-0.8%)
Warlock-Druid 10.6% (not in top three last week)
Of the top 50 Rogue-Priest teams, about half field a shadow Priest (20/0/41). This is significant as only about 6% of priests in top Arena teams are specced shadow, with the vast majority being holy discipline* (thanks Tyler) priests. In other words, most of the shadow priests in 2v2 are represented in Rogue-Priest teams. It comes as no surprise that this comp, while good against other archetypes, is probably also one of the tougher comps a Warrior-Druid team can find itself up against.
A Priest can dispel HoTs and silence the Druid - definitely cramping the latter's healing potential. Abolish Poison can also be dispelled, allowing time for the Rogue's wound poison to stack and further reducing the effectiveness of druidic healing. Most shadow priest and rogue teams will focus their fire on the Warrior to quickly force the Druid out of hiding. Thereafter, the Rogue will go after the healer while the shadow priest continues to wear the Warrior down. In this scenario of split DPS, Warrior-Druid teams will play very defensively to buy time for HoTs, exhaust the Rogue's tricks, and hopefully deplete the Priest's mana.
Interestingly, the Rogue and holy discipline* Priest comp is considered less dangerous by Warrior-Druid teams. While the Priest may try to dispel, silence or mana burn the Druid, the Warrior's damage output on the Rogue will force the Priest to focus keeping his teammate alive. In this matchup, both the Warrior's durability and the Druid's mobility against Rogue DPS are definitely assets.
A Warlock-Druid matchup is almost an endurance match, with both teams very capable of keep their main DPSer alive. The Warlock will try to take down the opposing Druid; mobility is important here for the Druid, to duck out of LOS of the Warlock's nukes and fear.
While the Warrior generally has nothing to fear (heh) from the Warlock, interference from the opposing Druid will make the durable Warlock hard to dispatch. The Warrior may also go after the Warlock's pet (twice if necessary, for Demonology warlocks) in an effort to disable Soul Link or other disruptive pet abilities. In this matchup, the toons will seem to be running in circles: Warrior hunts Warlock, Warlock hunts Druid A, Druid A trys to CC Druid B, Druid B tries to heal Warlock and CC Warrior. Thankfully, Druid B's mana is not inexhaustible and again, the Warrior-Druid team may triumph by simply outlasting their opponents.
A strategy that has emerged to counter the MS Warrior's ubiquity in all brackets is the 'Warrior gib'. The premise of this strategy is to burst gib the Warrior with multiple sources of burst DPS before his or her healers have any chance of healing. In the 2v2 bracket, this means two sources of burst DPS - which I suspect aren't fast enough to take down a well-geared Warrior who has stacked up on resilience. A dual-DPS team like the Rogue-Mage also means no healers. Against a field of other DPS-heal archetypes, dual-DPS teams probably do not do well enough to pose a viable threat. Rogue-Mage teams form only about 4% of the field in the US 2v2 bracket.
Are you in a Warrior-Druid team, and if you are, what are your experiences? Do you think that this comp is the "best" in 2v2? What other counter-strategies can you suggest against this team?
In other brackets, the most popular comps for top-level teams on the US servers are:
5v5
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Warlock 16.9% (-0.2% from last week)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Mage 12.4% (+1%)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Hunter-Warlock 5.6% (-0.1%)
3v3
Rogue-Priest-Mage 18.9% (+1.3%)
Rogue-Druid-Warlock 8.7% (-1.1%)
Warrior-Priest-Druid 7.9% (-0.9%)
In the chart above, warlocks seemed to have relinquished their dueling superiority to the Warrior-Druid combo, although they are still the third most represented class in 2v2. Hunters have all but shrugged off their 'red-headed stepchild of Arenas' status by maintaining their fourth most represented class standing in 2v2. Pallies and shammies fill the 5v5 bracket, leaving their hybrid brethren - druids - to dominate the smaller brackets. Rogues are peculiarly prevalent in the middle-of-the-road 3v3 bracket.
* For some reason, my fingers typed 'holy' when I was thinking 'discipline' - must be the expired eggnog ... thanks again for pointing out the blatant mistakes.
Filed under: Druid, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Classes, Blood Sport (Arena PvP), Arena






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Rudolphe Jan 31st 2008 5:16PM
Which one's really OP? Warriors are in like 6/9 of the top team combos.
Adam Jan 31st 2008 6:00PM
Exactly! The druid forums are constantly barraged with "nerf druids" threads because of 2v2 but what these people seem to forget is druids are horrible in 5v5 and just OK in 3v3. And yet Warriors are good in every bracket.
Soapinmouth Jan 31st 2008 7:27PM
The game should not be balanced around how good the top 50 are, a more proper representation would be top 100, or just teams over 2200. There is some bias in the fact that, there are a higher percent of warlocks in the top 100, or in 2200+, but this guy decides to use top 50... I guess I understand that, him playing a warlock as his main and all.
(just don't take everything he says as fact)
Here are a better representation of how wow is balanced.
*~_TOP 100 ARENA PLAYERS IN THE WORLD_~*
24% Druid (used to be warrior for the longest time)
19% Warrior
17% Warlocks (2% lower than Warriors(was 19% last week))
16% Priest
12% Rogue
6% Hunter
4% paladin
1% Mage
1% Shaman
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/all/all/all/all/
As you can see Druids AND Warriors need a nerf, and even though MOST warlocks don't admit it they do also.
Heres another set of data to further my point.
2v2 Teams over 2200
Warrior/Druid 25.8%
Warlock/Druid 16.2%
Rogue/Priest 11.6%
Hunter/Druid 6.5%
Rogue/Druid 5.8%
Warlock/Priest 5.1%
(Just top 6 combos)
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/2/all/all/all/all/
So just taking into calculation the top 6 class combos
Druids are on 53.4%+ of 2v2 teams over 2200.
Warriors are on 25.8%+ of 2v2 teams over 2200.
Warlocks are on 21.3%+ of 2v2 teams over 2200.
So warlocks are fairly close to warriors as far as being "Over powered", while druids blow both of these classes out of the water.
If this data isn't enough to sway your mind and your argument to this is that I am not showing the amount of each class at level 70, here they are.
Warrior 14%
(I hate warriors, but most played should probably be top if balanced)
Hunter 13%
Mage 13%
Rogues 11%
Warlock 11%
Priest 11%
Paladin 10%
Druid 10% (almost at bottom, yet top of arena???)
Shaman 8%
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?PHPSESSID=88735710d2d54405d613cf18804233e9&serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=70&maxlevel=70&servertypeid=-1
Verit Jan 31st 2008 10:19PM
I don't see why people say Druids need a nerf - I play one (as an alt - my main is a warlock). They have several weaknesses - people complain about their hots - you know their dispellable/stealable right? Even if you trigger lifebloom by doing so they are wasting mana. Even innervate is stealable, dispellable - yes you read correctly.
The more you can make a druid change forms the better - even with talents that a bunch of mana each time it happens.
So the strat is simple - spam them with coe (druids always shift if they have a slowing effect on them), silence effects, mana burn and keep dots up at all times = dead druid.
And remember - even though its mildly hard to kill a druid I'd honestly like to see one thats good at offense ability. All boomkins I've run into were a free hk, same with feral druids.
dAnixx Feb 1st 2008 1:53PM
Druid's are NOT OP!
Think about it, 5vs5 arena gives more arena points, and all classes (exept rogues) have more % in the 5vs5 arena fights.
Btw, since when does it means that, coz some class gets to happear more frequently on a arena team means that its an OP class?
Lazurette Jun 3rd 2008 9:13AM
I play neither a warrior or a druid and I wouldn't say it is overpowered. Every combo has its countercombos and as a SP/rogue we generally beat warrior druids. It's never going to be perfectly balanced and I don't see how anyone can expect it to be
Gurei Jan 31st 2008 5:19PM
WOW PVP is a hard thing to balance,its not even completly balanced
yet.
Id even say that that 2vs2 is probably the most unbalanced type of
pvp in wow,even more than 1vs1.
The potential of great synergy between classes there and how min/max
it works ,the warrior druid is a great example of an absurdly OP
team.Great endles damage with cc and fc,a heald debuff and good
mobility with great mitigation and a hard to cc healer with quick and
many skills and mobility .
HEY we cant say we werent told these,bliz clearly said that 2vs2 was
too much like a duel,but worse,having 2 players for each team and
couldnt be really balanced,5vs5 is more open for diferent teams and
skill to play in.
GG another reason why Arena is just not as good as PVP,wsg but specialy AB were more open to diferent classes specs and styles,it wasnt just a cookie cutter teams fest,the skill of all the players as a team and of the one in command of the grp usualy were the wining formula,not a class composition.
Jack Spicer Jan 31st 2008 5:22PM
Ugh, this sucks. I hate that WoW is now 100% balanced around PvP and this shows that the balance is nowhere near close atm. Especially when you consider that Druids are not one of the most popular classes.
Rudolphe Jan 31st 2008 5:28PM
If 2v2's are impossible to balance.... they need to get rid of it.
superfrank Feb 1st 2008 9:07AM
how about this - if 1v1 is impossible to balance they should get rid of it.
Rudolphe Feb 1st 2008 7:55PM
Umm no. You cant earn anything from 1v1 dueling. 2v2 you can..
Asswipe Johnsons Jan 31st 2008 5:37PM
Oh, please do shut up. If my warrior gets blasted in the ass for PvE again, I'm going to blame you. Not Blizzard, not OTHER whiny-ass PvPers, but YOU. Go play Halo; it's balanced.
Ryan Jan 31st 2008 5:46PM
All they have to do is implement the fix from the fake patch notes, make MS a debuff stack, one of which is removed each time a direct healing spell hits the target. I don't think this will have too far-ranging PvE implications.
theRaptor Jan 31st 2008 7:06PM
Yeah you are right, competitive PVP shouldn't be balanced. You should just get extra arena points for rolling the "good" classes. Yeah right.
Asswipe Johnson Feb 1st 2008 1:57AM
"Yeah you are right, competitive PVP shouldn't be balanced. You should just get extra arena points for rolling the "good" classes. Yeah right."
My point isn't so much that I think competitive PvP in WoW should be unbalanced so much as I think competitive PvP in WoW SHOULDN'T EXIST AT ALL. But if balancing competitive PvP means unbalancing/breaking PvE, then yes, PvP should be unbalanced. Wise ass.
ThorinII Feb 1st 2008 9:19AM
/agree
I don't play a warrior at all, but every time they try to balance out PvP they end up screwing PvE. You're never going to have completely balanced PvP. It just isn't going to happen. Someone is going to QQ about one class or another no matter what they do, so they should stop messing around with it and tell everyone to get over it.
infection Feb 1st 2008 12:54PM
Wait, are you guys seriously saying pve'rs don't cry over "he does more damage than me in a raid, he does more healing than me in a raid, he tanks better than me in a raid"
I'll admit, pvp has its share of crying, but to say NO ONE is crying BUT the pvp'rs = false.
Quit posting like no in the game complains but pvp.
Asswipe Johnson Feb 1st 2008 5:54PM
"Wait, are you guys seriously saying pve'rs don't cry over 'he does more damage than me in a raid, he does more healing than me in a raid, he tanks better than me in a raid.'"
No one said that. At all. F
Josh Jan 31st 2008 5:30PM
Well, if druid/war is really 1/3 of the group, having 30% of the teams at 2200 rating be war/druid means little, since it's the same ratio as overall, the only real difference is the 40% of the top 50, should be only 33%, so 4 fewer, but this doesn't mean it's op, just highly represented. If it were op, you'd see a higher percentage of the top teams than overall teams. On the side, if I'm a druid healing vs a priest/shammy who likes to dispell, i just hit lifebloom, final proc goes off on dispell...means i get about 1k instant heals every 3-5 seconds.
Faar Jan 31st 2008 6:37PM
I've totally no idea what that first run-on sentence means. Insert "wall of text crits..." joke here.