Blood Sport: Warrior-Druid overpowered?

Every Thursday, V'Ming - who thinks that gnome warlocks are travesties of nature and need to be KOSed - shares thoughts and ideas on becoming deadlier at the Arenas. He also dabbles in the dark arts in Blood Pact.
A quick look at the chart above and one thing clearly leaps out. Clue: it has to do with mortal strikes, HoTs and cyclones.
Well, every third team you meet nowadays in 2v2 will probably be a Warrior-Druid team. This comp (short for composition) seems to be running away with the 2v2 bracket currently: 20 of the top 50 US teams are Warrior-Druid comps - that's 40%. For teams with ratings greater than 2200, close to 30% are Warrior-Druid. They also make up almost a quarter of all 2v2 teams, regardless of rating. That's a lot of Warrior-Druid teams.
What makes the comp tick?
In this comp, the Warrior is obviously the main, durable source of almost inexhaustible DPS. The Druid, usually specced resto (8/11/42), adds to the Warrior's survivability and brings versatility to the team. The win condition of this comp is simple: outlast their opponents.
The Warrior-Druid team will generally open with the Druid stealthed in cat form. This effectively hides the higher priority (healer) target from the other team, until heals are called for. The Warrior can usually hold the fort for a few seconds, while dismantling softer targets of the other team: clothies or other healers. They generally want to establish control while surviving as long as possible before their teammates step in with some healing love.
Resto druids are extremely mobile healers, with fire-and-forget HoTs cast on the go, travel form to zip around maps and immunity to polymorph. Their mobility is augmented by various abilities to immobilize threats: roots, cyclone, maim, and even bash and charge in bear form. Their job in the Arena is largely defensive and evasive - staying out of trouble by using LOS and CC abilities. That said, a well-timed CC on the other team's healer can be a devastating offensive move by this versatile class.
A match against a Warrior-Druid team often feels like the Warrior is unkillable, with the wily healer just prancing out of reach and LOS. This often forces their opponents to blow their cooldowns in an effort to burst down either, which is probably what the Warrior-Druid team wants. The premise of the team, after all, is to survive everything their opponents throw at them while maintaining a healthy mana for the Druid, so that the Warrior can continue to DPS the way to victory.
In a gaming environment, when one archetype is prevalent, we can expect a second archetype to emerge as an answer or counter to the dominant archetype. Looking at the three most popular team comps at the top of the 2v2 bracket, we have:
Warrior-Druid 29.5% (-4.5% from last week)
Rogue-Priest 15.2% (-0.8%)
Warlock-Druid 10.6% (not in top three last week)
Of the top 50 Rogue-Priest teams, about half field a shadow Priest (20/0/41). This is significant as only about 6% of priests in top Arena teams are specced shadow, with the vast majority being holy discipline* (thanks Tyler) priests. In other words, most of the shadow priests in 2v2 are represented in Rogue-Priest teams. It comes as no surprise that this comp, while good against other archetypes, is probably also one of the tougher comps a Warrior-Druid team can find itself up against.
A Priest can dispel HoTs and silence the Druid - definitely cramping the latter's healing potential. Abolish Poison can also be dispelled, allowing time for the Rogue's wound poison to stack and further reducing the effectiveness of druidic healing. Most shadow priest and rogue teams will focus their fire on the Warrior to quickly force the Druid out of hiding. Thereafter, the Rogue will go after the healer while the shadow priest continues to wear the Warrior down. In this scenario of split DPS, Warrior-Druid teams will play very defensively to buy time for HoTs, exhaust the Rogue's tricks, and hopefully deplete the Priest's mana.
Interestingly, the Rogue and holy discipline* Priest comp is considered less dangerous by Warrior-Druid teams. While the Priest may try to dispel, silence or mana burn the Druid, the Warrior's damage output on the Rogue will force the Priest to focus keeping his teammate alive. In this matchup, both the Warrior's durability and the Druid's mobility against Rogue DPS are definitely assets.
A Warlock-Druid matchup is almost an endurance match, with both teams very capable of keep their main DPSer alive. The Warlock will try to take down the opposing Druid; mobility is important here for the Druid, to duck out of LOS of the Warlock's nukes and fear.
While the Warrior generally has nothing to fear (heh) from the Warlock, interference from the opposing Druid will make the durable Warlock hard to dispatch. The Warrior may also go after the Warlock's pet (twice if necessary, for Demonology warlocks) in an effort to disable Soul Link or other disruptive pet abilities. In this matchup, the toons will seem to be running in circles: Warrior hunts Warlock, Warlock hunts Druid A, Druid A trys to CC Druid B, Druid B tries to heal Warlock and CC Warrior. Thankfully, Druid B's mana is not inexhaustible and again, the Warrior-Druid team may triumph by simply outlasting their opponents.
A strategy that has emerged to counter the MS Warrior's ubiquity in all brackets is the 'Warrior gib'. The premise of this strategy is to burst gib the Warrior with multiple sources of burst DPS before his or her healers have any chance of healing. In the 2v2 bracket, this means two sources of burst DPS - which I suspect aren't fast enough to take down a well-geared Warrior who has stacked up on resilience. A dual-DPS team like the Rogue-Mage also means no healers. Against a field of other DPS-heal archetypes, dual-DPS teams probably do not do well enough to pose a viable threat. Rogue-Mage teams form only about 4% of the field in the US 2v2 bracket.
Are you in a Warrior-Druid team, and if you are, what are your experiences? Do you think that this comp is the "best" in 2v2? What other counter-strategies can you suggest against this team?
In other brackets, the most popular comps for top-level teams on the US servers are:
5v5
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Warlock 16.9% (-0.2% from last week)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Mage 12.4% (+1%)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Hunter-Warlock 5.6% (-0.1%)
3v3
Rogue-Priest-Mage 18.9% (+1.3%)
Rogue-Druid-Warlock 8.7% (-1.1%)
Warrior-Priest-Druid 7.9% (-0.9%)
In the chart above, warlocks seemed to have relinquished their dueling superiority to the Warrior-Druid combo, although they are still the third most represented class in 2v2. Hunters have all but shrugged off their 'red-headed stepchild of Arenas' status by maintaining their fourth most represented class standing in 2v2. Pallies and shammies fill the 5v5 bracket, leaving their hybrid brethren - druids - to dominate the smaller brackets. Rogues are peculiarly prevalent in the middle-of-the-road 3v3 bracket.
* For some reason, my fingers typed 'holy' when I was thinking 'discipline' - must be the expired eggnog ... thanks again for pointing out the blatant mistakes.
Filed under: Druid, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Classes, Blood Sport (Arena PvP), Arena
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Alch Jan 31st 2008 5:42PM
I think its not a class issue but that 2 v 2 will never be fair. They should just remove it. I rather see them add 4 v 4.
I think 3 v 3 is the most fun to watch and I have a feeling that it will become the standard.
Dipstick Jan 31st 2008 5:48PM
I've been hearing a lot from a (warrior) friend who plays 2v2 with a druid that a lot of counter-set-ups are emerging to warrior-druid.
For example as mentioned above, mage-rogue is effective.
Another relatively new one is hunter-druid (perhaps because of the recent news that a hunter-druid team topped 2v2 ratings), which can burst down one or the other players with good effect.
Warrior-Druid is by no means a guaranteed way to 2000 rating (although it is likely to get you 1850+), which is why there are warrior-druid teams spread all the way from 1500-2400. Whether skill, luck, or queueing strategy makes the most difference, I cannot tell.
Kamileon Jan 31st 2008 8:21PM
Here is why I think Druids are represented so highly in 2v2s as Resto:
1. Mobility as a primary defense
Easy to los and kite 1-2 people. 5v5 have very weak Druid showing because there are too many people for mobility, los, and kiting to work in 5s. HoTs allow the Druids to be mobile, mobility allows HoT-healing to be successful.
2. Mobility means endurance when you can run away and drink. And 2v2s are endurance fights.
3. Feral and Balance specs weaker for arenas overall.
Pretty commonly held opinion - Druids feel pressured to respecc to Resto for arena, regardless of what they do the rest of the time in order to have higher ratings. And Ferals need 1850+ to get their best PvE weapon.
So, combine that Druids are weaker in larger arena formats, they will be lest represented there, and higher represented in 2v2. Add in that Feral and Balance specs are less successful, those will be less represented, and people will spec what works -- Resto.
So, you have the vast majority of the Druid population that wants to arena successfully going to the format where they will have the best advantage (makes sense, right?) and that is Resto in 2v2.
In my opinion, Druid have such a high percentage of teams in 2v2 because they have a MUCH higher population in 2v2s, period. As #5 above stated, druids are a high percentage in all levels of arenas, not just high-ranked ones.
David(Postal) Jan 31st 2008 6:09PM
wow... looks like hardly anyone uses a mage in 2v2..
Tyler Jan 31st 2008 6:19PM
"with the vast majority being holy priests. "
Really...
Really?
Majority of priests are disc.. NOT holy. 41/20 is the acceptable PvP Priest spec.
buckpinne Jan 31st 2008 6:21PM
Personally, I'd hate to see Arena's or 2v2 go by the wayside. Arena's are definitley the most fun part of the game for me. And even though its been said that "WoW is not a dueling game", I'd like to see some form of 1v1 competition with reward system, even though it probably won't happen.
For my money, Arena's provide the best setting for PVP'ers to shine, and the 2v2 comp. is definitley the most exciting as well as challenging for me. BG's only go so far in allowing skill to be a factor, as much of the time it is just mob rules.
I think that one of the great things about WoW are the continual checks and balances (read nerfs and buffs), that the different classes get between patches. It is great to see the way players come up with new and creative ways to maximize their classes potential, and as such change the landscape of Arena team composition. I don't think a true "balance" can or will be achieved, and for me that's one thing that keeps the game interesting.
Dilunae Feb 1st 2008 4:12PM
What needs to happen which will balance druids a bit is to put a cooldown on cyclone and make them unable to travel form in combat. Travel forming in combat is so cheap. If they want to run away then they should kitty form and dash. Anyone who plays a druid can't complain about being killed so easily because all you ever do is pole dance in arena. That takes absolutely no skill to do. It's like an affliction lock who dots you up and runs away. Also, when in a BG a druid can travel form out of combat to avoid being killed. I can't mount up in combat to avoid that so why should you be able to travel form? Again, kitty form+dash to escape.
Also, most druids spec into feral charge and improved bash so even when your not pole dancing, a standard move is to Warrior Charge+Feral Charge+Bash+Cyclone+Heal+Run away. Most of the arenas favor the fire and forget classes because of line of sight issues and that is not combat honestly. The combat should be intense. How intense is it to HOT or DOT someone up and then run away?
alex Feb 6th 2008 6:25AM
"If 2v2's are impossible to balance.... they need to get rid of it." i totally agree
chirality Jan 31st 2008 6:32PM
What makes warrior-druid so good is that, like everything in 2v2, it's all about counter-comp.
Common 2v2 teams that warrior/druid should beat:
Warlock+Healer
Rogue+Healer
DPS+Disc Priest
Common 2v2 teams that warrior/druid can often lose to:
Warlock/Mage/Shadowpriest + Rogue
Warrior+Paladin
Automatic Loss:
Hunter+Druid.
The issue with Warrior/Druid being so prevalent is not based on Warriors being overpowered...but that a Druid is only really good when paired with someone resistant to burst--a Warrior, Warlock, or Hunter--and a Warrior is only good with a healer...and Paladins and Shaman are terrible and 2v2, and priests need someone with CC to team with.
If there's a truly good mage or hunter or druid on a team--the Warrior/Druid team is terrible, because the Warrior is SO VULNERABLE to snare / root.
War/Dru is so popular because the other healing classes are simply not that good of an option. Paladins and Shaman are so easily locked down, and Priests don't have the armor to survive long-term that Paladins/Shamans do, and don't have the escapability of a druid.
Rob Jan 31st 2008 6:47PM
Its surprising but not unexpected that the commenters and the writer are completely misinterpretting the data. Lets review.
Top 50 2v2 teams. 1/3 sport a druid, and 1/3 sport a warrior. It doesn't mean these teams all have warrior/druid combos. It means if you sample the top 50 teams, 16 of them will have a warrior, and 16 of them will have a druid. Who knows how common the warrior/druid combo is, the data doesn't say, and you can't interpret it.
Second data: Popular combos of 2v2s. Yes, warrior/druid are a popular combo. Are they a good combo? Who knows, you can't interpret from the data.
I agree about all the mobility stuff, its all true. But to analyze the two pieces of data and leap to the conclusion that warrior/druid is an overpowered team is an abhorent abuse of data. We don't even know if the best teams are warrior/druid.
Its unfortunate that the author makes the exact same mistake every week, perhaps he should consult a statistician.
Fatmouse Jan 31st 2008 6:51PM
Agree with 10 and 16, Hunter/Druid is an effective counter to Warrior/Druid, hence the rise of 2v2 Hunter representation.
Milktub Jan 31st 2008 6:52PM
Again, filed under my "why I hate PvP" subheader.
1. Gets people whining about respecs: "But I can't raid/farm/PvP with the same spec!"
2. Alters abilities with PvP in mind, not PvE -- why do you think Sweeping Strikes was moved out of the Warrior Arms tree?
3. Makes people ask for nerfs. Would anyone ever ask for a nerf if this were a totally PvE game? HELL NO. I don't know about you, but when I'm facing a boss that can hit for thousands of damage on plate, I want my tank to be tough, my healers to have huge heals and my dps to dish out big damage.
theRaptor Jan 31st 2008 7:08PM
People asked for nerfs to other classes when this was still mostly a PVE game. "primary" classes (priest, warrior, mage) didn't like the hybrids or higher utility classes being able to best them at their core utility.
soapinmouth Jan 31st 2008 7:24PM
The game should not be balanced around how good the top 50 are, a more proper representation would be top 100, or just teams over 2200. There is some bias in the fact that, there are a higher percent of warlocks in the top 100, or in 2200+, but this guy decides to use top 50... I guess I understand that, him playing a warlock as his main and all.
(just don't take everything he says as fact)
Here are a better representation of how wow is balanced.
*~_TOP 100 ARENA PLAYERS IN THE WORLD_~*
24% Druid (used to be warrior for the longest time)
19% Warrior
17% Warlocks (2% lower than Warriors(was 19% last week))
16% Priest
12% Rogue
6% Hunter
4% paladin
1% Mage
1% Shaman
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/all/all/all/all/
As you can see Druids AND Warriors need a nerf, and even though MOST warlocks don't admit it they do also.
Heres another set of data to further my point.
2v2 Teams over 2200
Warrior/Druid 25.8%
Warlock/Druid 16.2%
Rogue/Priest 11.6%
Hunter/Druid 6.5%
Rogue/Druid 5.8%
Warlock/Priest 5.1%
(Just top 6 combos)
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/2/all/all/all/all/
So just taking into calculation the top 6 class combos
Druids are on 53.4%+ of 2v2 teams over 2200.
Warriors are on 25.8%+ of 2v2 teams over 2200.
Warlocks are on 21.3%+ of 2v2 teams over 2200.
So warlocks are fairly close to warriors as far as being "Over powered", while druids blow both of these classes out of the water.
If this data isn't enough to sway your mind and your argument to this is that I am not showing the amount of each class at level 70, here they are.
Warrior 14%
(I hate warriors, but most played should probably be top if balanced)
Hunter 13%
Mage 13%
Rogues 11%
Warlock 11%
Priest 11%
Paladin 10%
Druid 10% (almost at bottom, yet top of arena???)
Shaman 8%
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?PHPSESSID=88735710d2d54405d613cf18804233e9&serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=70&maxlevel=70&servertypeid=-1
Kamileon Jan 31st 2008 8:20PM
I want to see numbers of players, not percentages. I do strongly believe that Druids are overepresented in %s of 2v2 teams because there are just flat out a higher quantity of Druids playing in 2v2s than other arena sizes.
I guess it becomes a chicken-egg question at that point. Are Druids overpopulated in 2v2 because they're OP, or are they percentage-of-representation "OP" because they're overpopulated?
BladeeR Jan 31st 2008 7:52PM
Will you ever shut up about whining what is most popular class in arena? It´s so 2006 to whine about warlocks.. no wonder that WoW is full of QQ when even one of WoW´s biggest blogs post "Omg druids / warlocks are so op"..
Get a clue, and post something usefull instead of once again what is so OP in arena.. jesus.
Soapinmouth Jan 31st 2008 10:05PM
I wasn't directly QQing about warlocks, I was just saying that they are just as strong as warriors. Read the comments of people saying warriors are op.
It's not a fucking fad either you dumb shit, if a class is too strong than its too strong.
Show me proof that warlocks are the most populated class in arena, I have shown you that there are more warriors hunters and mages at level 70.
And btw the poster is a Warlock, and his main is a warlock. I don't even think he has any other level 70s other than a warlock from other blogs I have read from him.
wowtard Jan 31st 2008 8:32PM
The real reason that Warriors and Locks are popular is their ability to endure and outlast their opponents. Moves like Mortal Strike and various lock abilities are only icing on the cake.
Ryan Jan 31st 2008 9:57PM
blizz has stated that they are balancing around 5v5. and as you can see druid is not represented very well in 5v5.
in the end? buff druids.
Soapinmouth Jan 31st 2008 10:01PM
rogues have a lower 5v5 representation than druids, so by your logic buff rogues.