Blood Sport: Warrior-Druid overpowered?

Every Thursday, V'Ming - who thinks that gnome warlocks are travesties of nature and need to be KOSed - shares thoughts and ideas on becoming deadlier at the Arenas. He also dabbles in the dark arts in Blood Pact.
A quick look at the chart above and one thing clearly leaps out. Clue: it has to do with mortal strikes, HoTs and cyclones.
Well, every third team you meet nowadays in 2v2 will probably be a Warrior-Druid team. This comp (short for composition) seems to be running away with the 2v2 bracket currently: 20 of the top 50 US teams are Warrior-Druid comps - that's 40%. For teams with ratings greater than 2200, close to 30% are Warrior-Druid. They also make up almost a quarter of all 2v2 teams, regardless of rating. That's a lot of Warrior-Druid teams.
What makes the comp tick?
In this comp, the Warrior is obviously the main, durable source of almost inexhaustible DPS. The Druid, usually specced resto (8/11/42), adds to the Warrior's survivability and brings versatility to the team. The win condition of this comp is simple: outlast their opponents.
The Warrior-Druid team will generally open with the Druid stealthed in cat form. This effectively hides the higher priority (healer) target from the other team, until heals are called for. The Warrior can usually hold the fort for a few seconds, while dismantling softer targets of the other team: clothies or other healers. They generally want to establish control while surviving as long as possible before their teammates step in with some healing love.
Resto druids are extremely mobile healers, with fire-and-forget HoTs cast on the go, travel form to zip around maps and immunity to polymorph. Their mobility is augmented by various abilities to immobilize threats: roots, cyclone, maim, and even bash and charge in bear form. Their job in the Arena is largely defensive and evasive - staying out of trouble by using LOS and CC abilities. That said, a well-timed CC on the other team's healer can be a devastating offensive move by this versatile class.
A match against a Warrior-Druid team often feels like the Warrior is unkillable, with the wily healer just prancing out of reach and LOS. This often forces their opponents to blow their cooldowns in an effort to burst down either, which is probably what the Warrior-Druid team wants. The premise of the team, after all, is to survive everything their opponents throw at them while maintaining a healthy mana for the Druid, so that the Warrior can continue to DPS the way to victory.
In a gaming environment, when one archetype is prevalent, we can expect a second archetype to emerge as an answer or counter to the dominant archetype. Looking at the three most popular team comps at the top of the 2v2 bracket, we have:
Warrior-Druid 29.5% (-4.5% from last week)
Rogue-Priest 15.2% (-0.8%)
Warlock-Druid 10.6% (not in top three last week)
Of the top 50 Rogue-Priest teams, about half field a shadow Priest (20/0/41). This is significant as only about 6% of priests in top Arena teams are specced shadow, with the vast majority being holy discipline* (thanks Tyler) priests. In other words, most of the shadow priests in 2v2 are represented in Rogue-Priest teams. It comes as no surprise that this comp, while good against other archetypes, is probably also one of the tougher comps a Warrior-Druid team can find itself up against.
A Priest can dispel HoTs and silence the Druid - definitely cramping the latter's healing potential. Abolish Poison can also be dispelled, allowing time for the Rogue's wound poison to stack and further reducing the effectiveness of druidic healing. Most shadow priest and rogue teams will focus their fire on the Warrior to quickly force the Druid out of hiding. Thereafter, the Rogue will go after the healer while the shadow priest continues to wear the Warrior down. In this scenario of split DPS, Warrior-Druid teams will play very defensively to buy time for HoTs, exhaust the Rogue's tricks, and hopefully deplete the Priest's mana.
Interestingly, the Rogue and holy discipline* Priest comp is considered less dangerous by Warrior-Druid teams. While the Priest may try to dispel, silence or mana burn the Druid, the Warrior's damage output on the Rogue will force the Priest to focus keeping his teammate alive. In this matchup, both the Warrior's durability and the Druid's mobility against Rogue DPS are definitely assets.
A Warlock-Druid matchup is almost an endurance match, with both teams very capable of keep their main DPSer alive. The Warlock will try to take down the opposing Druid; mobility is important here for the Druid, to duck out of LOS of the Warlock's nukes and fear.
While the Warrior generally has nothing to fear (heh) from the Warlock, interference from the opposing Druid will make the durable Warlock hard to dispatch. The Warrior may also go after the Warlock's pet (twice if necessary, for Demonology warlocks) in an effort to disable Soul Link or other disruptive pet abilities. In this matchup, the toons will seem to be running in circles: Warrior hunts Warlock, Warlock hunts Druid A, Druid A trys to CC Druid B, Druid B tries to heal Warlock and CC Warrior. Thankfully, Druid B's mana is not inexhaustible and again, the Warrior-Druid team may triumph by simply outlasting their opponents.
A strategy that has emerged to counter the MS Warrior's ubiquity in all brackets is the 'Warrior gib'. The premise of this strategy is to burst gib the Warrior with multiple sources of burst DPS before his or her healers have any chance of healing. In the 2v2 bracket, this means two sources of burst DPS - which I suspect aren't fast enough to take down a well-geared Warrior who has stacked up on resilience. A dual-DPS team like the Rogue-Mage also means no healers. Against a field of other DPS-heal archetypes, dual-DPS teams probably do not do well enough to pose a viable threat. Rogue-Mage teams form only about 4% of the field in the US 2v2 bracket.
Are you in a Warrior-Druid team, and if you are, what are your experiences? Do you think that this comp is the "best" in 2v2? What other counter-strategies can you suggest against this team?
In other brackets, the most popular comps for top-level teams on the US servers are:
5v5
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Warlock 16.9% (-0.2% from last week)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Shaman-Mage 12.4% (+1%)
Warrior-Paladin-Priest-Hunter-Warlock 5.6% (-0.1%)
3v3
Rogue-Priest-Mage 18.9% (+1.3%)
Rogue-Druid-Warlock 8.7% (-1.1%)
Warrior-Priest-Druid 7.9% (-0.9%)
In the chart above, warlocks seemed to have relinquished their dueling superiority to the Warrior-Druid combo, although they are still the third most represented class in 2v2. Hunters have all but shrugged off their 'red-headed stepchild of Arenas' status by maintaining their fourth most represented class standing in 2v2. Pallies and shammies fill the 5v5 bracket, leaving their hybrid brethren - druids - to dominate the smaller brackets. Rogues are peculiarly prevalent in the middle-of-the-road 3v3 bracket.
* For some reason, my fingers typed 'holy' when I was thinking 'discipline' - must be the expired eggnog ... thanks again for pointing out the blatant mistakes.
Filed under: Druid, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Classes, Blood Sport (Arena PvP), Arena
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Ryan Jan 31st 2008 10:06PM
rogues need a buff too. that's for sure. at least to make them viable in 5v5.
Chakros Jan 31st 2008 10:20PM
What they should do is incorporate separate brackets/queues for each class combo in 2v2. These queues would also be cross-battlegroup. That way, all the druid and warriors can have their own little arena bracket to play in. This solution would also eliminate the need to "re-balance" the classes.
A Man In Black Feb 2nd 2008 5:51AM
Can you imagine the queues for shaman/shaman?
chris Jan 31st 2008 11:59PM
If blizzard is only going to balance for 5v5, then 5v5 should be the only arena.
Spifflicator Feb 1st 2008 1:28AM
@20
"Second data: Popular combos of 2v2s. Yes, warrior/druid are a popular combo. Are they a good combo? Who knows, you can't interpret from the data."
Well, yeah, you can interpret. Why is the druid/warrior comp popular amongst the highest rated players?
A) People who don't deserve to be in the top 50 ARE just because the druid/warrior comp is so OP
B) Druids and Warriors are natural friends. They like each other, hang out after school, catch delicious bass together, etc., etc.
C) The top players see the advantage of this comp and utilize it.
The point is this; there IS a reason that the Warrior/Druid comp is seen so much in the top 50... because they work. Remember, this data is only taken from the people with the highest 2v2 scores in the game. I seriously doubt that comps that did not work well together would be seen so much in the highest rated teams.
And there's the crux. It's impossible to make everything PERFECTLY balanced without making the game totally stupid. If every comp were perfectly balanced, then the mage/mage comp would be seen just as much in the top 50, even though that comp should obviously be destroyed by most others. That's part of the tactic. I'm sorry, but if you want to be in the top 50, then you will have to pick a comp that does not suck. That's not to say that a mage/mage comp CAN'T be good, but don't hold your breath to see them in the top 50. (I checked, and the highest mage/mage comp was rated 2174)
phlipy Feb 1st 2008 4:16AM
"Interestingly, the Rogue and holy Priest comp is considered less dangerous by Warrior-Druid teams. While the Priest may try to dispel, silence or mana burn the Druid,"
@V'Ming Chew:
Hmm, you do not seem well informed considering PVP in general. As you have allready corrected DISC is the most popular priest PVP-spec. Additionally you won't encounter too many holy-priest who are able to cast silence, because you need at least 21 talentpoints in the shadow-tree. Apart from a deep shadow-spec the disc-tree is far more useful for PVP-priests. Nonetheless you offer an interesting read.
Best wishes!
phlipy
Matt Feb 1st 2008 4:39AM
Arena shouldnt be balanced, teams should be better in certain brackets than others, just look at the table at the top of the page, no class is fantastic at all brackets.
Matt Feb 1st 2008 4:55AM
EDIT
*Classes should be better... rather than teams.
Teri Feb 1st 2008 5:25AM
Very little mages in 2v2 isn't a big surprise seeing how easy it is to interrupt our heavy damage simply by either putting melee on us(theres a ton of ways to get out of freezes and ice slows those days) or one of the many many interrupt abilties.
I haven't played 2s enough as a mage to really know all of it though. I enjoy 5v5 a lot more, so do others apparently to those charts.
Mana also limits mages a fair bit in 2s, since cause we're not really left alone, can't drink/evocate that much.
However when we ARE left alone, between icy veins/frostbite-shatter combos, we can do some serious burst damage still while locking out a healer with a CS macro.
Resilience/High Stam arena is gear easier then ever to obtain those days so potential pom pyro or arcane power/frost builds are getting less and less attractive.
Arabelli Feb 1st 2008 12:08PM
Hi again Teri!
If anything, they should simply lower the amount of points you get from 2v2 even further, and that's the end of it. Realistically trying to balance the smaller quantities is an exercise in futility, and you do run the risk of seriously messing up PvE. (Damage tax for mages, amirite?) That being said, it's logical to leave it as a bracket so that people are able to have their easier-to-form small teams, just not a high amount of points from it.
If it's impossible to balance properly (which I firmly believe it is), then simply make it less worth your while. Focusing on keeping 5v5 fair instead and making it most profitable by a wide margin would go a long way for a sense of fair play.
db Feb 1st 2008 6:59AM
The only thing that gives resto druids an edge is arena water. Thats the bottom line, without it, they are oom and useless. All this time we've thought shadowmeld useless and now it's OP!
And instead of the constant "Paper is fine. Nerf Rock. -signed Scissors" complaining why don't we support the class specs that are truly underrepresented in arenas? How many feral druids are rolling resto in arena to get feral PvP gear for PvE? I bet alot.
Do you think the number of warriors and resto druids and warlocks in arenas would dwindle if shamans, feral druids, ret pallies etc were arena viable? Definitely.
Fireflash38 Feb 1st 2008 9:37AM
"Paper is fine. Nerf Rock. -signed Scissors"
Funny thing is, as a mage, I am supposed to beat warriors 90% of the time. However, current warriors can be almost unkiteable. Sure, I can beat a crappy player, or a player of the same skill as me, assuming they don't get imp hamstring/mace stuns. But a warrior can make multiple mistakes, survive, and kill their attacker. As a mage, if I make one mistake, I get gibbed.
Yet the mage counter-classes? I have to play a perfect game, and even if I do, they have to make a few mistakes for me to win.
Good_Idea Feb 1st 2008 11:00PM
I agree, get rid of arena water.
----------------------
Frost mages do quite well against warriors from what I've seen. Even with 15 second intercepts, more often than not warriors get nailed by viscious shatter combos from the combined mage and water elemental pet. 1 cold snap and you have the pet for anotehr 45 seconds. Blink gets out of stun, if used after an intercept the warrior isn't doing jack.
Rogues are some else altogether, but warriors... are pwned by good frost mages.
Eternalpayn Feb 1st 2008 7:44AM
Blizz made resilience to seperate PvE and PvP... Maybe some PvP and PvE only spells? That way those can be nerfed, and wars won't be even worse for PvE.
PNess Feb 1st 2008 7:48AM
god this place is no better then bliz forums
everyone loves to spout off 2v2.
forgetting where they start to fall behind on 3v3
and where they are dismal at best in 5v5
pro rate the 3 together based on points and you will see that druids are 4th not first when you factor in all THREE.
warrior, priest, warlock, pally are actually more represented in the full 2v2- 3v3- 5v5 range then druids.
fix them in 2v2 but you also need to fix them in 5v5. you need to fix the two other specs.
stop just asking for one arena nerf....cause you know you nubs will just cry for more nerfs if they start to do better in 5v5.
badb Feb 1st 2008 9:14AM
Notice the lack of druids on the more people teams. Sooo. If we are overpower in 2v2 doesnt that mean we are underpowered in 5v5?
Oh and which of those gives more points.. yep 5v5
badb Feb 1st 2008 9:14AM
Oh another thought, since druids are rubbish in 5v5 where do you think those druids who cant get into a 5v5 team are going?
Fizzed Feb 1st 2008 10:10AM
I think most druids, myself included, are tired of hearing about resto druids in 2v2. 2s aren't balanced, Blizz has said so. Its the only bracket that we dominate. We're merely ok in 3v3 and barely even represented in 5v5 - the bracket in which you get the most points.
If you nerf resto to balance the inherently unbalanceable 2v2, no one will need druids for any arena bracket. Can't we have one viable spec somewhere?
What's worth, any nerf to resto is likely to sink ferals (terrible in arena) even more...not to mention PvE ramifications.
freehugs Feb 1st 2008 11:19AM
Well, every third team you meet in the top 50 nowadays in 2v2 will probably be a Warrior-Druid team. If you play at lower ratings you'll find that teams are more evenly distributed and about a tenth of the teams will be running this makeup
*there, I fixed it for you
ogletree Feb 1st 2008 11:00AM
Why would a druid shapeshite to get rid of a curse. We can decurse.