How to stop Vashj and Kael from destroying your guild
Last week our own Marcie Knox pointed out in her Ready Check column the daunting task that's given to raiders when they face Lady Vashj and Kael'Thas Sunstrider. These two bosses have earned their reputation as a guild killer, and are some of the hardest encounters in the game. While there is a plethora of information out there on how to defeat the technical aspects of the fights, very little is written on the social aspects these fights give us. Examining what can be done to keep a group of raiders together during this difficult time is critical to success.Lets take a brief look at why these two encounters are so difficult. When it comes down to it, Blizzard is testing our ability to deal with two different skill sets. The first being immediate and unknown change, and that comes with Vashj during phase two and three: which side will the Naga spawn, where will the Tainted Element appear, how many times is your main tank going to get rooted and bat poison dropped on him, which way will the tanks need to drag the Naga around to avoid getting the melee cleaved, etc...
On the flip side to Vashj's unknown factors exists Kael'Thas. Kael is definitely a scripted encounter. We know what order the advisers are going to come up in, we know (sans gaze) where they'll go, we know what Kael will do when he reaches 50%, and we know what order we need to get the weapons down. This fight is all about repetition of a scripted encounter.So to get to Tier 6 content, a guild needs to be perfect at both random and non-random events. Okay, fair enough. A game like WoW is supposed to challenge our physical dexterity and our cognitive reaction times. However as Marcie points out, this is obviously a difficult and daunting task. What can be done to get over this hump and move into Tier 6 content? How can a guild survive this transition when it can take possibly months to work out the two encounters? How can these encounters not be guild killers?
While individual guild members can do a lot of the work by learning their roles and becoming masters of their class, getting a dynamic group of 25 people through a challenging scenario rests solely on the shoulders of the guild leader and his/her leadership team. Lets look at a few basic management principals that the guild leadership can use during this time to keep things together.
1. Stay Positive
Anyone in a position of leadership should always maintain a positive attitude. This is the number one point for a reason: nothing can make a group of people feel more hopeless then a negative leader. Granted, even if your group is having trouble with simple things, and even if people keep getting killed by the same thing over and over, stay positive no matter what. This doesn't mean that you can't gently drop them comments and suggestions on how to improve their game play (this is a prerogative of a raid leader), but doing it tactfully and not in front of the whole guild is key. This brings us to the second thing to do...
2. Keep Embarrassing Issues Private
Maybe your off tank doesn't know he needs to keep up shield block all the time on Sanguinar. Perhaps he just hasn't been in a situation yet where he needs to. Of course this needs to change, but don't call him out in the middle of a raid. It doesn't do anything for his self esteem, and he might just decided not to come back the next day. Private tells in these cases will work wonders. You can get a lot more out of people if you help them with their issues, rather then pointing them out and walking away.
3. K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid. There are a lot of complex things going on, but don't worry about everything all at once. Break it down into simpler parts, and keep working on one simple part at a time. Doing this will ensure that all issues are eventually figured out, and everyone gets a chance to participate in the strategy building and fine-tuning.
4. Know When To Pull The Plug
A break can do amazing things. It can rejuvenate people, give people a fresh perspective, let a few pieces of missing gear come into place, and generally let people relax a bit. Know when to take one of these breaks. While it might seem a bit fundamental, there are a few different types of breaks that should be considered:
- A five minute break. This can do wonders. Let the raid go to the bathroom, get another drink, have a stretch, etc... Perhaps conjure up something that's been featured in our Well Fed Buff articles? No matter what people do, insist everyone goes away from their computer. Put yourself on /afk and follow your own words too. Amazing success can come after this.
- A night off. Know when its time to take a night off. It might be that people are getting too bored with this repetitive content. Set a limit for yourself, or some other benchmark; when that limit is reached, take a night off and go kill something easy. (Hogger, of course.)
- The rest of the evening. Nothing is going right, no progress is being made, and you seem to even be back tracking a bit... just stop. Some times people are just not focused enough to raid and there is nothing you can do about it. So just take the rest of the evening off. But remember to do so with a positive tone. Say something like, "Okay, while we really wanted to go on, it looks like the raid leaders need to get together and get our ducks in a row." Even if you don't need to do that... say it anyways. Don't say "Hey losers. If I could 25-box this raid by myself I'd have cleared the Black Temple already. Go take a night off and let me try that."
People are raiding with your guild by choice. With the induction of server transfers over a year ago, people are no longer forced to stay on a server, and thus with a guild, like they used to be. Let the raiders give you feedback, and take that feedback positively and proactively. By proactively I mean solicit it. Ask people questions, get their opinions. Asking your third string mage (or anyone) what he thinks of the fight and what everyone needs to do differently will do wonders. Not only will it give them a chance to sound off to you about their frustrations (which is another topic in and of itself), but it will also get them to think more critically of the fight. Only good things will come of this.
As you can see, there is a lot to do concerning this one-two-knockout punch Blizzard has provided us with. The very nature of the situation means that guilds need to step up in not only their playing abilities, but also their social management skills. Having a good understand of what needs to be done to keep people motivated, happy, and optimistic is just as important to these fights as any gear ever will be.
I'm quite interested to know what other suggestions our readers might have to keep the social side of things flowing during these difficult encounters. Give me your comments and answers. I'll post a follow up to this article in a couple weeks and I'll share them with the community.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, How-tos, Virtual selves, Raiding
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
terra Feb 7th 2008 1:52PM
Another thing- try to teach people when they really need to let the raid know something by speaking up in Vent. There are a lot of things going on in these fights, and it makes matters worse when you have too many people trying to speak at once. It gets frustrating when you can't communicate crucial things like who has the core if people are complaining about buffs or not getting heals or whatever.
Darkk Feb 7th 2008 2:11PM
Our guild just downed Kael for the first time 2 weeks ago, so I thought I'd offer some observations on the whole Vashj/Kael thing:
1) It took us about a month and a half to down Vashj and another month or so to down Kael. Be prepared for long nights of wiping: one of the things that makes these 2 fights so difficults is that losing more than 1 or 2 people early on can easily lead to a wipe. The fights are VERY unforgiving. You ARE going to wipe. You're going to wipe a LOT. Make sure you're saving your Marks of the Illidari and giving them out to your most consistant raiders (or everyone, if you have enough stockpiled). Make it a rule that everyone has to Flask Up before the first pull and that everyone is using Well Fed food, Wizard Oil, etc. If people aren't fully buffed, they're basically holding everyone else back.
2) I'm not sure I fully agree with the "whispers and friendly suggestions" method here... if someone keeps running into Thaladred in Phase 3 or can't seem to avoid that incoming Strider, you might have to, as a last resort, call that person out in Vent/Teamspeak/Raid chat. A little embarrasment can go a long way, as long as you don't turn into a screaming, expletive-flinging tyrant whenever anyone makes the slightest mistake - save the public "call-out" for repeat offenders. Another option would be to put the person "on the bench": tell them (in whispers or in a class channel) that you want to get so-and-so in for a few attempts instead, and swap them out of the Raid for so-and-so. They are then forced to sit on the sidelines and think about how they could do better next time. I realize these suggestions won't work for every Guild out there, but if gentle proddings aren't getting people to shape up, they might be worth a shot.
3) It's all about Transitions. The hardest part of the Vashj fight is bringing down that last shield in Phase 2 and having to deal with her attacks, the static debuff, the bats, AND all the left-over Stiders and Elites. For Kael, it's the Phase 3-to-4 transition where Kael joins the fray, starts nuking the Main Tank (who needs people near him for Mace and Staff buffs), and you still have advisors that need to die before the Phoenixes start spawning. Once you can master those transitions, the rest of the fight(s) are relatively easy - so try to make them your focus if you can. Discuss ways to make the transitions smoother. Discuss positioning, roles, and do's and don't's. And don't be afraid of a little Carrot-on-a-Stick talk: "Just think guys, we nail this transition and we'll be able to go explore Mount Hyjal!"
Final thought: these fights can get very frustrating, no doubt about it, but if you can keep focused and bring these 2 down - no matter if it takes you weeks or months - it'll be all worth it. That feeling you get when you see Vashj or Kael keel over for the first time (accompanied by much shouting and whooping in Vent) makes the wipes, the repair bills, and the farming seem trivial.
Good luck :)
Sodon Feb 8th 2008 10:54AM
Ugh, what is this, a video game or a job?
ErsatzPotato Feb 8th 2008 4:10AM
Good post. Nice work.
Trivial correction: introduction, not induction.
Sl0th Feb 8th 2008 6:46AM
I'm in a guild smack in the middle of the Vashj/Kael ceiling. In fact, tonight we spent the night getting beaten up by Vashj. Our high point tonight was taking down her shield with people still alive long enough to do a few percent of damage to her before the striders and naga finished having their way with us.
It is fustrating to some degree. We had been making rapid progress prior to this. And it helped the other day we went and took down Doomwalker on our first try ever after a raid one night. I don't think my guild is going to break up over it. Our members are starting to get a bit frazzled as we wipe over and over, but we're keeping our eyes on the future and the content that we'll be able to burn through as soon as we bag ourself a sea witch and blood elf prince.
At least I know I am. SSC and TK have been fun and all, but I'd like to soon be able to visit one of my favorite WC3 battles and that giant temple that dominates Shadowmoon Valley.
Replex Feb 8th 2008 7:20AM
These guys can threaten guilds even after you have them on farm, Getting to Archimonde in Hyjal for example and realizing that you need to go key more people... ugh.
mrobin604 Feb 8th 2008 5:04PM
These things worked well for us when we were working on Kael:
1) Dump SSC. Gearing up from SSC is good but while you're doing that, you're not getting in enough Kael attempts. We had 1-2 nights to work on him and him alone since we could clear the rest of the stuff in less than a night.
2) Call wipes early. The point of working on a boss is to figure out how to master it, not to see how far you can go by luck and burning consumables on every try. If phase 1 is really rough, call the attempt and restart. This will give you more good attempts in a night, and keep people fresh and learning.