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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrysc weighs in on questing
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Feb 8th 2008 at 9:00AM
Player Tychlona of Kul Tiras made a fair point in a forum post when she noted that it sometimes gets a little annoying doing "collection" quests where it seems to take hours to collect what you need, Be it Gray Bear Tongues or Helboar Meat. I'd say that most of us can likely feel her pain on that measure. Drysc answered her later in the thread with some of his own insight into the process of questing and dealing with various types of quests. His point that sometimes seeing that "5/30 Windroc" notice in your quest log can make a quest feel like a bit of grind is very understandable, but I have to counter that seeing that "8/10 Monstrous Crawler Leg" in your quest log and knowing you've already killed 30 mobs without those last 2 legs appearing can feel just as grinding. He says a few more interesting things that may shine some light on Blizzard's questing philosophy, which I'll discuss after the jump.
For example, He also points out that variety in quest types is needed to keep things from getting too boring, and it's a fair point too. Most of us, after finishing up Nesingwary's quests in Stranglethorn or Nagrand, probably feel like we never want to see a quest to kill massive amounts of wildlife again, so we'd likely get to feeling a bit drained if every single quest involved killing massive amounts of the same thing over and over again. He also mentions that if they did remove random drop style quests, they'd probably have to start bumping up the required number of kills for "Kill X amount of mobs" quests, which might suggest various internal metrics at Blizzard that must decide how much a person should have to quest or kill to jump up a level, or how long a quest hub should keep a person in an area.
He ends by stating that he believes the WoW team is getting better at implementing new quests and making new mechanics to build off of for future quests. The game really does seem to hold him out on this, as we've had plenty of new and exciting things do in Outland, from stealing the souls of gronn and going on bombing runs, to jump-starting the hearts of Fel Reavers. If nothing else, the philosophy Drysc expounds bodes well for players as we head into 2.4 and the expansion, since if Blizzard continues to build quests off those ideals, it means we should get some good, quality game play out of them.
Of course, we'll probably still have to kill 30 Shovel Tusks for good old Hemet.
So what's your take? Is variety the spice of life? Or would you rather not waste time waiting for one last Forest Troll Tusk to drop?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Quests, Leveling, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
darian Feb 8th 2008 11:31AM
I was just in ZF last night and got fully stocked on Tempers before reaching the first boss.
Granted I was the only person who needed them, but the drop rate is much better than it used to be. The bosses themselves can now drop 2-5 of the things.
What you may be experiencing is not an issue with drop rate, but with looting. Quest items of these kinds go to the first person to loot the corpse. If you're a ranged DPS or a healer, you're usually the last person to the loot after the tank and the melee, which means that you might have to wait for as much as 80 of the tempers to drop before you see even one.
Slayblaze Feb 8th 2008 10:36AM
I *enjoy* killing stuff in-game, and I would be doing it whether there was a quest for it or not. That is part of the underlying principle of these 'mob grinding' quests: the player will be killing these things anyway...lets give them additional credit for doing so.
Rambull Feb 8th 2008 11:34AM
I've often said WoW's only real change to leveling was forcing you to track down some NPC and talk to them inbetween grinding sessions. Sometimes I wish I could cut out the middle man, ya know?
Aticus Feb 8th 2008 10:48AM
I think they're fine where they are. Sure, a better drop rate would be fantastic. Maybe a 1:4 or a 1:5 ratio. I was collecting rocks over in the Badlands off of the Elementals. The lesser rocks had about a 1:7. That felt like forever. But the next quest to get 3 big stones was a 1:1.
The reason I think that Blizzard made these drop rates as they did is because we can get great Exp from killing these mobs. Lets say I did have a 1:7 drop rate on those lesser stones.
200 exp per kill,
7 mobs per drop
Needed 10 drops.
10x7=70 mobs, 70x200 = 14,000 Exp
Right there, even in 2.3 terms (at level 40), is about 3.5 quests. Now you turn in your loot and you have about 17,000 Exp just for doing one quest that is not hard, but time consuming. I think this is why Blizzard put in these types of quests with a chance-of-drop bellow 25%. (It also could have just been my luck with those stones having such a low drop rate lol).
-Aticus, http://www.paladintales.blogspot.com
Matt Feb 11th 2008 11:36AM
Agreeing with a bunch of previous... the developers clearly got better at this in Outland, maybe even more so in the new Dustwallow Quests. Adding some new mechanic - like being near the flickering power cores outside Mudsprocket for dissolving slimes - gives questing a different feel from grinding.
Likewise the chains that end with a tough (but non-elite) mob, like the new chain near Theramore that ends with some sort of demon bat.
Obviously not every quest (or even every chain) has a great storyline, but the ones that do clearly win fans... think how many people followed the actual quest text in the Missing Diplomat chain and really like it, despite the fact that it has numerous steps which are the hated run-here-and-then-run-there style.
bjp2592 Feb 8th 2008 10:52AM
I agree that some of the drop rates are too low. But the number one thing that Blizz could do to help with questing is: when doing an escort quest, make the person you're escorting RUN!!!
Oh and regarding the "after the jump" thing, it's especially irritating when you click on the link and there's only like 2 more sentences in the post.
darian Feb 8th 2008 11:34AM
The problem with this is that it makes escort quests harder.
Yes, they currently seem interminably slow, but imagine if immediately after finishing off one group of mobs your charge did just that? No chance for a break, just your escort aggroing mob after mob.
It would occasionally save time, but most of the time it would probably be a headache (See: Thrall).
Woad Feb 8th 2008 11:00AM
Mob/item grinding quests are the bread and butter of questing, but I think they need to be more carefully balanced to prevent tedium. No one wants to be stuck doing the same thing over and over with the end seeming forever away.
For example having to kill 10 of something never seems like a chore, but having to kill 30 of something usually does. Just looking at a quest that has kill 30 of x is usually enough to prevent me even starting it.
Perderedeus Feb 8th 2008 6:22PM
An escort quest done right: A Little Help From My Friends. Here you escort Ringo from the middle of Ungoro to Marshal's Refuge. He RUNS. Not only that, he FOLLOWS YOU. The only 'challenge' in this quest is that he occasionally faints and you have to use your canteen on him. Excellent.
Milktub Feb 8th 2008 11:11AM
By far my least favorite quest type is the "Listen to my story, then blow this whistle and follow my ghost, then go talk to this person on the other side of the globe" quests.
For a specific quest I hate:
"Dragons are the least of our problems". I'm doing Netherwing dailies for gold (not for the mount, my computer doesn't like rendering shimmery things), but I skip this one because unless the mine is completely empty of competition, it can take hours to kill five ravagers.
Doug DeJulio Feb 8th 2008 11:17AM
I think for me, there are times when random drops are much more frustrating.
Consider troll tusks. I can see the troll. I can see two tusks. I can kill the troll with poison. I can see the troll die. I can see the tusks on his corpse. But when I loot him there are no tusks.
That is frustrating.
But now consider the witch doctor trolls that drop the voodoo dolls or whatever they are. It's much easier to believe that not every one of them carries one, so for me, the fact that I can kill one and not get the drop sits a lot better with me.
darian Feb 8th 2008 11:37AM
You can only loot tusks from Trolla who brushed their teeth every night. Otherwise they suffer from tuskrot, and the tusks are no good.
Connrad Feb 8th 2008 11:20AM
ToI will agree with a few of the folks above: I hate collect “x number of whatever body part” quests. My main beef with them is, say I need to collect hoofs from some four legged creature…but I only get a hoof every 5-6 kills…..they ALL have four hooves!?! “Kill X number of whatever” isn’t bad, because the grind just helps the level go faster. Even if your quest is to kill a named, you have to normally kill everything leading up to him, so it equates to the same thing in the end.
This:
“Of course its always annoying when you need to kill 50 of x and 5 of y, and the spawn point has 50 of y and 5 of x”
Is probably one of my biggest pet peeves in game. Blizzard always makes the thing you have to kill the most of, the thing that has the smallest/slowest spawn rate….Now you are just wasting my time as I wait for respawns.
Rambull Feb 8th 2008 11:32AM
Let's not pick on good old Nesingwary (Jr. or Sr.). That guy has given me lots of XP over the years. He's alright in my book.
Todd Feb 8th 2008 11:40AM
I don't mind killing x-amount of wildlife, as it generally forces me to gain experience through grind. Then, as a bonus, I get another boost of experience from the quest turn-in.
Now granted, variety is key, but I still don't mind the push to go out and do some grinding every so often.
thush Feb 8th 2008 11:44AM
More interesting quests are things like bombing runs, light torches, and the dranai quest where you turn into a cat, etc. Grinding quests are OK. Collection quests aren't bad if there is more to collect w/ a better drop rate. The collection quests with less to gather and a bad drop rate are the absolute worst quests. The next worst are elite quests. Personally I think questing should be a solo game until the level cap. Nagrand is horrible because of the elite quests. I end up jumping zones and holding out until I find a group or I bribe people to help me down the elites. It's stupid and shouldn't be that way.
An example of almost perfect zones with almost perfect quest progression is the blood elf starting area and ghostlands. Blizzard did an outstanding job with that zone, the quests, and rewards. Hopefully that's the future.
Kaantu Feb 8th 2008 11:51AM
First off, I believe 100% that there's a behind-the-scenes flag that _makes_ you grind longer for that last one or two items you need. No dev will ever admit to this, but you just have to know it's there. When you need 10 items, get the first 8 in say 20 kills and then for some strange reason it suddenly takes 20 more kills just to get those last two, something smells funky. This scenario just happens waaaay too often to be something random.
My idea is to work some math into the process. kills
Kaantu Feb 8th 2008 11:54AM
(Oop. Forgot that you can't put brackets in the posts)
First off, I believe 100% that there's a behind-the-scenes flag that _makes_ you grind longer for that last one or two items you need. No dev will ever admit to this, but you just have to know it's there. When you need 10 items, get the first 8 in say 20 kills and then for some strange reason it suddenly takes 20 more kills just to get those last two, something smells funky. This scenario just happens waaaay too often to be something random.
My idea is to work some math into the process. kills (less than or equal to) (items_needed * 2.5)
An example being, if you need 12 items, you know right away that you're not going to have to kill any more than 30 mobs. It very well may be less than 30, but it will never be MORE than 30.
And the more mobs you kill, the chance that an item will drop goes up. So if you've knocked off 25 mobs and still don't have the 12 items you need, the drop rate gets closer and closer to 100%.
In my opinion, this in a way combines the 'drop X' and 'kill X' quests. It makes you work a little bit to get what you need but you also won't get frustrated when the items you need just aren't dropping.
illirien Feb 8th 2008 12:08PM
Ideally, leveling should be something that just happens as you're enjoying playing the game. With many of this type of quests, it's far too transparent that all you're doing is trying to get xp. A player should feel their goal is actually to get the demented wizard his rare ingredient. The multitude of killed monsters should be a by-product of the story goal, not the end in itself. This sort of quest construction is starting to be more common in WoW, and that's very encouraging.
ThorinII Feb 8th 2008 12:21PM
That's all well and good, but they need to add a timer to the "random" drop rate on some of these. If someone has been killing the same mobs or mobs in the same area for X number of minutes and only needs one or two to finish out, DROP THE DANG THINGS!!