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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsPatch 2.4: Hyjal and Black Temple attunements removed
by Adam Holisky 
Feb 8th 2008 at 11:00PM
Blizzard announced the following important four lines in their 2.4 Patch Notes:- Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter Hyjal.
- Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter the Black Temple.
- Players who have completed the attunement quests for Black Temple and Hyjal will be granted the title of "Hand of A'dal".
- You may now fight Prince Kael'thas and Lady Vashj without first killing all the other bosses in their respective dungeons.
While the removal of the attunement is obviously a way to get more people to see their new raid zone, the Sunwell Plateau, all is not golden. Many, many, many raiding guilds and players who have already made the brutal trek through Vashj and Kael will be quite upset. On the other hand players who are not yet able to, but perhaps ready for, the first few bosses of MH and BT, will undoubtedly rejoice.
What are your opinions of this change? How do you think it will affect the raiding landscape?
Filed under: Patches, Analysis / Opinion, News items, Instances, Quests, Raiding, The Burning Crusade
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
Anorax Feb 9th 2008 8:12AM
Well interesting news indeed.
This seems to be the pattern for all new expansions now. Give the hardcore raiders 12 months to smash through content then remove all attunements so the majority can get to experience the endgame content before it becomes obsolete.
It's a smart business decision on Blizzards part. It keeps the casual raiders playing the game by allowing them access to content they previously had no chance of experiencing.
But I suspect this will still be no cakewalk for most guilds and does nothing for the those guilds that are continually struggling to get 25 players even for SSC/TK content.
Justo Feb 9th 2008 8:34AM
man this is fuckin horseshit! if you arent a good enough group of players to properly progress to the 2 last endgame raid instances then it is what it is. fuck man, letting people just waltz in unrestricted cheapens the accomplishments of PROVING your skills to advance that far. sure, shitty players still wont be able to ACTUALLY kill anything in there.....but still, what the hell?
Arabelli Feb 9th 2008 9:28AM
As someone who just worked her butt off to get attuned, I will admit to being a little frustrated over it. However, I also understand the pros and cons.
What I -can't- understand is either the people who believe that raiders are only frustrated because 'now people can come to your private playground' and whatnot. Are you serious? What's frustrating is that an absolutely insane amount of work went into getting those quests done, and it's freshly seared into our memories. Now we know that certain people on our servers who have no -right- (based on their skill and committment level) to just wander into the Black Temple or Mount Hyjal. Think about it logically; they're the endgame. Well protected, lots of lore and protection around the instances. Attunement stood to give you a logical way to simply get into the dungeon based on storyline. Now it's gone, and you get to see Pwnunubs from spamming general in black temple with "zomg ur guild sucks this iz so easy AAAAAAHMYFACE".
Some people have worked very hard for something that anyone can do now. If you don't believe that would be frustrating, then you need to get a little less freaking self-centered. I believe in the long run, just like with SSC/TK, most guilds won't move past certain places, and it will only help recruitment for a lot of guilds. But understand that this is a lot how Sir Hilary felt after people started paying Sherpas to get unqualified climbers up Everest.
Frustrating, that's all.
mk Feb 9th 2008 10:04AM
Yeah, I'm sure Sir Edmund would feel that his ascent of Everest is akin to your achievements on World of Warcraft. Jeez, get over yourself FFS.
Arabelli Feb 9th 2008 10:14AM
Okay, so I went nuts with hyperbole, cut me some slack. I'm not saying it's even in the same echelon of achievement, I'm saying it's frustrating to see people do things easily that you had to really work for.
Will people always find things to get angry about? I swear, I just don't get it. Why do people always want to fight?
Griimnir Feb 11th 2008 2:43AM
The reason people always find reasons to fight, are because of posts like yours. I almost couldn't see the logic of your argument through the haze of elitism.
"Now we know that certain people on our servers who have no -right- (based on their skill and committment level) to just wander into the Black Temple or Mount Hyjal."
What gives -you- the right to judge who has a right to do anything in this game when they pay the same 15$ you do to play. Some people have a life, or little time to dedicate to the game simply because real life demands most of their time. I would love to be a hardcore raider, really I would. But I can only manage to raid on the weekend, that's it, and sometimes my guild doesn't even raid on the weekend. But that's life, tough crap for me. I'm happy I even get to go raiding.
I would love to see BT/MH/TK/SSC, not even for loot, just to see it. And Blizzard is offering me that chance. Good for them. I still doubt i'll even see any of it before WotLK comes out. I just don't have the time. But for people who can manage to put out a little more time than I can, they will get the opportunity.
"If you don't believe that would be frustrating, then you need to get a little less freaking self-centered."
Don't get me wrong. I see your side of it too. However, all you hardcore raiders need to state your position with a little less elitism, and a little more decency. It makes it hard not to bash on you or fight back when all we can gather from your posts are "Nubs this, nubs that. We R teh l33tz!" Perhaps stating your position decently, and diplomatically will win more support, and less opposition. That won't always be the case, but alot of the fights going on about this topic are started because of elitist posts, and casual gamers defending their right to endgame content and being tired of the brand "nub".
I can't imagine how frustrating, and long, not to mention how hard you had to work to get attuned. Really, I can't. Perhaps raiding would seem more like a job than something fun to do in an otherwise bland existance at 70. Congrats to you, and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically. You worked through it, struggled though it, and put hours, and hours of work into it. For that, I admire you, and congratulate you for your efforts. Does that make you the greatest players in WoW? No, it does not. It just means you were able to work through the difficulties and put the time and dedication in it. It's the same as the PvPer that owns the PvEr in a duel, or the PvPer that fails horribly in instances.
Despite the lack of attunement, I highly doubt this will change too much. Guilds looking to hop suddenly into these high end raids are going to get raped mercilessly. That in turn, means that after a thorough beating in these high end raids, they'll have to go back and do it in the right order, and progress. The lack of attunement will make it shorter, but I can promise you that they will have to work just as hard for it, and maybe harder if they're "less skilled". If you see these guys spamming the BT general channel with "Omg ur guild sukz, this iz so eesy!", and they have less than t5/6 gear, then perhaps they are just that damn good, and perhaps better than you, for getting through it undergeared. But a whopping 99% of guilds looking to take advantage of the no attunement change, they are going to have to do it the old fashioned way, minus the quest lines.
This does not mean I completely agree with all of blizzard's changes. The possible addition of t6 quality gear via the badges, is a terrible change....and I believe that is what is pissing the hard core raiders off the most. That possibility will make the casual Kara raider able to do his Kara runs and gear up to t6 level. I disagree with that. -That- takes away the challenge, not the attunement. The attunement were just quests. You had to farm those raid bosses for the gear, and that was the hard part, not exactly the attunement quests (Or rather, the harder part of it.). So yes, I take the side of the hardcore raiders on that. However, I still don't think it will change things. A fully kara-geared raid cannot just waltz in, and wipe Kara down. It still requires strategy, period. So just because some idiot bought his t6 with badges, doesn't mean him and his guild can beat BT. They still need to practice, work together, and play smart.
Lastly, in an attempt to get the Hardcore raiders who are disgruntled over this, to look back on the subject in a new light, think of this. Who were the ones who got there first? You. Who were the ones that -did- the attunement quests to get in? You (Although a crappy, lame, boring title is all you get...which is a load, imo.). Who will be going to the Sunwell 25-man first? You will. And who will put it on farm first? You will. You're still more advanced than anyone else, and you're still at the forefront. Stop feeling so threatened. You're the first, and you can prove that. So let everyone else have their fun please.
Griimnir Feb 11th 2008 3:02AM
Oh, and i'd like to add a couple things as well, seeing as how the post bothered me a little bit.
Being a casual gamer does not mean you suck. It's just a way for the elitists to excuse their own lack of an outside-of-game life.
"--get a little less freaking self-centered."
Indeed. It's not -your- game. Are you from Blizzard? Did you design the game? Did you take part in actually creating it? Are you a GM? No. That just goes to support the whole "You QQ because you don't want people in your private playground." theory. As i've stated, we all pay to play this game. So you don't get to claim ownership over something millions of people play. Perhaps being a little self-centered on your side of the argument will humble people on the other side, yes?
Griimnir Feb 11th 2008 3:04AM
*Ahem* A little -less- self centered, rather.
Arabelli Feb 11th 2008 11:19AM
You're absolutely right, I spoke like a jackass. My high school career was as a debater, and I have such a bad habit of sounding like an elitist jerkface over trivial stuff.
Am I frustrated because I just put in a lot of work that now isn't strictly necessary? Yes. But belittling people over it is petty and stupid. I'm really sorry for it. Chalk it up to stupidty on my part, and if you're in Battlegroup Ruin you can likely kill the silly firemage at some point.
:) Pax?
Digitalhawkeye Feb 9th 2008 10:15AM
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean on one hand it will cut down on the "I'm not keyed yet" crap that can slow guilds down, but on the other hand, I've always appreciated the story and effort that goes into keying, plus it kinda helps to keep out the insufficiently geared players. It forces you to be ready, or more ready than just opening the doors to everyone.
Then again, maybe the devs just want to show off their handy work before everyone moves on to WotLK and leaves the 25 man raids of BC in the dust for bigger and better green loots and 5 man instances.
alexix Feb 10th 2008 10:09PM
im not sure how I feel about this; on the one hand, it's a videogame and then on the other hand, oh yeah, it's just a videogame.
Pete J. Feb 11th 2008 3:07PM
Of course it's a game, and people who don't know how to play can really ruin it for people who know what they're doing. It takes a certain amount of class knowledge to get geared and through the smaller raids before you move up to the really big ones. Not that getting into BT is really any sort of real world accomplishment, but it only takes 1 or 2 people to waste hours of time wasting and make them perhaps the most wasted time of your life. : P
Layne Feb 9th 2008 10:33AM
im currently in a ssc/tk guild. we just got fathom lord and leo this week. we've been 3/4 tk for a little while now too.
we never got stuck anywhere. we were just late to start.
now all of our hard work is going to be undermined by removing the attunement to bt/mh.
im afraid this is going to put some strain on our guild if we dont start making attempts on vashj and kael before the patch.
once the patch hits who knows how many people will want to stick around for t5 when they can now get in a t6 guild.
Shelby Feb 9th 2008 11:03AM
wtb BT run
lol
C'mon now, it's really not that big of a deal. Like it's been said already, you still need the gear to get through these bosses, people are still going to have to put a lot of time into it, and so what if another 10% of the WoW population gets to take down Illidan and see some of this wonderful content, why is that such an insult to those that have had to go through the attunement? Think of it as you're paving the way for the second generation of raiders, you got there early and you got there the hard way, we "casuals" recognize that and respect you for it.
Tarbh Feb 9th 2008 11:35AM
People who think their hard work and achievements trough progression are cheapened in any way by this must of been playing for the wrong reasons.... in fact their QQing about it seems to dismiss what they have achieved as trivial more than blizzards actions.
They must also be completely oblivious to the constant opening up that blizzard does to all content as it ages, they keep it elite first and then allow less godly players to place their gaze upon it. If they didn't then only 2-3% of guilds would ever see BT, a waste of resources and effort. Anyway, there will be a gear reset in wrath, this is just a last little bit of fun blizz will have for BC before it gets put to rest, bar the godly guilds franticly working to making the world/region/server/faction firsts, I think we can all just chill a bit and really enjoy the rest of the games content. GG Blizz.
Jason Feb 9th 2008 1:05PM
Instances don't need attunements. The difficulty of them is their own attunement. All this did was remove the time sink process.
People like to talk about the amount of "work" they had to do to get in these instances. I'm not sure that work should have a place in a game. I have a job already. I don't want to pay blizzard to do more work.
Charneldeath Feb 9th 2008 1:34PM
It's not so much the work.
It's the cries of nerf that ALWAYS follow the pwnnubs and "casuals" as they enter instances. Anyone remember Shade of Aran pre-nerf? It was painful. Casuals come in, Aran is free loot soon after.
Kael was also nerfed for casuals.
Patch 2.4.1
All bosses in BT and Hyjal have had their HP cut in half, and are only allowed to use 2 mechanics per fight. All trash in previously stated zones will also be cut in half.
It's in the cards, I assure you.
Nerfing.
That's what upsets me.
Rich Feb 9th 2008 1:42PM
Its a carebear game... If you want something hardcore and challenging find another game...
Kitteh, Twilights Hammer EU Feb 9th 2008 3:26PM
I REALLY do appreciate some players annoyance at this. Its a crapload of work to get as far as BT/MH. My guilds currently butting heads with Vashj (should be down in next couple of weeks) and Kael.
HOWEVER; Blizzard have to try and tailor this game to as many folks as possible. They do this with the slowly diminishing difficulty. The folks who are good are constantly given a new target to go for if they wish while those lesser players or those with less time get to see most of the game they're paying for. They have to cater to both, i'd imagine it's a very tricky rope to walk but this really is for the greater good. More happy paying customers mean this game continues to be developed at the pace it is, the community doesn't loose people to other games and we can continue to enjoy the game for some time to come.
Seriously - who looses from this? It doesn't even remove bragging rights - the very top end have been given somewhere new to play, the following pack get to play more of the game but its "old" content. The difference in gear from T6.5 to T6 should be enough to give bragging rights.
PLEASE stop complaining at nothing and everything blizz do.
andrea Feb 9th 2008 5:25PM
Jesus people, attunment was changed, not the bosses. This is for people with alts, or wanting to get buddies in whatever...
the "casuals" you speak of, will never do it, and have no interest in it, regardless. (By the way, casual, has jack to do with skill, grow up, please.)
Guilds who have the power to do those things, already have. This changes very little for most. Don't worry, I still think you are an interweb supastar for killing some tough pixels.