Math behind 2.4 honor gains
by Amanda Miller 
Feb 13th 2008 at 11:00AM
Because of this, our knowledge of the honor calculation system as explained to us after patch 2.3 by Nethaera needs to be revised. Will we be gaining more honor, more quickly? Just how much of a potential is there to earn more?
Let's take an in-depth look at the new math behind our patch 2.4 PvP kills and compare it to what we have been used to. Because these changes will be applied to individual kills and not to honor awarded for objectives, any questions about each individual battleground's honor potentials can be answered using our explanation of the honor system, or by consulting our discussion of the 2.4 changes to Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch.
As we have discussed before, one battleground kill at level 70 is worth 20.9 honor. In the soon-to-be-history honor calculation system, you earn 10% less honor for each subsequent kill of the same player. After a mere 10 kills, the honor count drops to 0.
Patch 2.4 is setting out to change all of this, banishing diminishing returns. This means that at level 70, each kill will be worth 20.9 honor regardless of its novelty. There will be one new restriction; after 50 deaths, a player will no longer be worth honor.
What does all of this mean for your honor gains in each system?
Calculating potential honor in the old system dictates that each subsequent kill's honor drops by 10% of the initial 20.9 honor, or 2.09 honor less per kill. This would net the following:
- 20.9 (1st) + 18.81 (2nd) + 16.72 (3rd) + 14.63 (4th) + 12.54 (5th) + 10.45 (6th) + 8.36 (7th) + 6.27 (8th) + 4.18 (9th) + 2.09 (10) + 0 (all kills of Player A hereafter)
- In total, at level 70 fighting another level 70, you could earn up to 114.95 honor per opponent.
- (20.9) * (50) + 0 (all kills of Player A hereafter)
- This means that theoretically, at in a level 70 battleground, you could earn up to 1045 honor per opponent.
For each kill after the first, you are earning 2.09 multiplied by 1-10 more than you would otherwise for that kill. Up to 40 kills of that same player will earn you 100% more honor!
On top of this, we will be seeing accurate honor totals rather than estimates when we check our honor for the day, and all of it will be available to spend immediately. There has even been speculation that the removal of diminishing returns might help solve the AFK problem in Alterac Valley.
While you still may find that completing objectives is a quick way to earn some honor, actual PvP combat will become much more lucrative after patch 2.4; almost 9.1 times more. Especially for battlegrounds like Warsong Gulch, or Alterac Valley during a turtle, this boost to the honor awarded per kill is definitely going to appeal to all players. In fact, these changes should also bump up the total honor gained from losing.
Are you excited about these changes? Do you think they are overpowered, or insufficient? Do you foresee Blizzard sticking with these new numbers, or do you feel more adjustments will be coming in the future?
Filed under: Patches, Walkthroughs, PvP, Battlegrounds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Mak Feb 13th 2008 11:25AM
The biggest thing to keep in mind, and the reason why this is awesome, is that the diminishing returns for honor kills were DAILY. That means that you kill the same person 10+ times over the course of a day ... you are getting zero honor. And with the way AV especially works, I at least find I fight a lot of the same people over and over (since everyone tends to queue up right as a game ends, and a new one spawns ... teams managed to stay reasonably consistent).
If you have a WSG that lasts 45 minutes, it is likely you can kill a given person 50+ times. That's about it, nothing else will last long enough.
Mr. Applebutter Feb 13th 2008 11:27AM
That and the estimated honor was sometimes WAYYYYY off base compared to the calculated honor. Then when you wake up the next day you realize you have another entire day of estimated honor grinding to get the piece you were so excited to wake up and buy.
Hevnlyst Feb 13th 2008 11:14AM
just what the alliance who lose nearly every bg need..
Hevnlyst Feb 13th 2008 11:20AM
Also it makes it much easier for people who just hit 70 to get some pvp gear, especially those who don't win bgs very often. Maybe this will even spur some more world pvp? If the same 5 people are fighting each other over and over at say...Lakeshire, then wouldn't it actually be fairly rewarding?
jaxson_bateman Feb 13th 2008 11:20AM
Premades are what you need! Since 2.3, I've beaten ONE alliance premade when in PuG BGs. QQ
Spetsnaz Feb 13th 2008 11:17AM
Well, the thing i started to think about is....
1) Will Blizz up how much stuff costs to make up for some of the faster gaining in honor, since they are trying to make top end gear attainable for everyone no matter if they get it from PvP, or Raiding.
Malachi154 Feb 13th 2008 11:48AM
My first thought as well. I would expect to see the honor cost of things to rise...
Mr. Applebutter Feb 13th 2008 11:20AM
Are the battlemasters on pedestals in 2.4???
jaxson_bateman Feb 13th 2008 11:21AM
Yep, more honour is always good in my books. As a PvE focused player, it's nice to not have to spend 24/7 on the game to still get a half decent PvP set. ^^
Poxus Feb 13th 2008 11:28AM
I was posting about this the other day on my blog, www.lock4life.wordpress.com, and this is what some of were thinking.
I do believe this change is aimed more towards some of the casual players who tend to stay away from BG's due to the fact is was hard to gear quickly with limited play time. Also this helps bring more players to other BG's that normally do not give much honor.
Netherscourge Feb 13th 2008 11:30AM
I like these changes overall, although I can see Blizzard increasing Honor COSTS of items slightly, because as a side-effect of these changes and the new daily turn-ins, Honor will be earned at higher rates.
In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing BG Mark costs decreased some, since turning in Marks for raw honor will be possible, on an unlimited basis.
However, I would hope Blizzard still makes WINNING a Battleground worth more honor then simply "HK farming". Otherwise, nobody will bother trying to "WIN", and they'll just play defense vs. offense, similar to the old Tarren Mill vs. Southshore yo-yo battles.
As someone else mentioned, adding new Honor Rewards, like PRIMAL NETHERS or some other rare Crafting Materials, would also help as a honor-sink of sorts.
Vort Feb 13th 2008 11:42AM
Thats my worry, BG's like WSG will become a death match game and nothing more. Lasting twice as long as they should.
I still support the idea of doing away with HK in BGs all togeather, so if you want honor your going to have to try to win the BG, not give up and HK farm.
Good_Idea Feb 13th 2008 11:30AM
They're going to have to nerf something or honor gains will be completely out of control. Without DR on honor kills my . I know that I will personally be making 2-10 times more honor since I'm in the top 4 almost always in a BG. I typically have around 60 HKs in a 12 minute AV, that equals 1200 honor plus 400 bonus for the win, for a total of 1600 honor in 12 minutes. I then have to wait 30 seconds for my next game. That doesn't seem right.
I also think that this will lead to more players being AFK on the battlefield, because you gain HKs just being in proximity to them right? God that will be pathetic. Now I'm going to have to waste my time writing tickets for people botting.
Blizz has to decide how much honor they want to give to people for doing the kills vs completing the objectives. At one time, kills were all that mattered, then objectives were far more important. Now we're back to kills again.
I think this change will be good for the long term, in the short term there will just be more tweaks to get it right.
Dan Feb 13th 2008 12:38PM
> I typically have around 60 HKs in a 12 minute AV, that equals 1200 honor plus
> 400 bonus for the win, for a total of 1600 honor in 12 minutes.
Not quite - if you are able to get 60 solo hk's in a 12min AV.... /salute
That 20.9 honor per kill is for a solo kill, add just one other person in the vicinity (they don't even have to help kill the target) and you each get ~10 honor for the kill. If you are in a group of 20... you each get ~1 honor for the kill.
In my experience, if you are defending in a small group of about 5 you will tend to average 3-6 honor per kill (before diminishing returns are calculated) and on offense in a group of 10-20 or more, you will average a lower 1-3 honor per kill.
So if you average 5 honor/kill on D, you'd have 300 from hk's plus your 400 bonus honor, and if you average 2 honor/kill on O, 120 from hk's plus 400 bonus.
Nandini Feb 13th 2008 1:39PM
The author should definitely emphasize this point that a SOLO kill is worth 20.9 honor at level 70. If you are in a battleground, that honor is divided among every nearby player on your team who sees the enemy player die.
Slayblaze Feb 13th 2008 11:41AM
Speaking about AV: this will make the healer specs want to play even less than before since they will not see any increase in *their* HK counts like everyone else is, plus they are usually easy targets for everyone else to get kills from. Just what we didn't need - less healers.
Also regarding how we Alliance play AV: Why do I get the feeling that we'll still just rush to FWRH and run into a wall of Horde that want to force us into a fight, thereby stopping forward progress? Yet still there will be several people yelling "Just rush RH, don't stop to fight!" meaning the few that do actually make it through die quick and rez back at DB since we got no graveyards that early yet. Should be 'fun' times ahead for Ally AV [sigh]
Dracula Jones Feb 13th 2008 12:23PM
Honest question... why would healers not also see an increase in HKs/honor? I'm a Holy Paladin who's typically at or near the top in HKs. 125 in my last AV... why would I not see an increase in the amount of honor earned or HKs scored?
Chris Anthony Feb 13th 2008 1:00PM
Slayblaze, I think you're mistaking HKs for killing blows. Healers get proximity HKs in battlegrounds like everyone else.
Slayblaze Feb 13th 2008 3:49PM
you're right Chris, thats what I was (mistakenly) thinking, of course the proximity kills will be credited to healers as well as everyone else. Nvm that part!
Rob Feb 13th 2008 11:44AM
I dont think this math is quite right. Remember you get 20.9 honor if you do all the damage to kill that opponent. If you only do a little, you aren't going to get much. I'm not sure how much honor you get from being in the same party as the guy who killed the opponent, but its probably not much, maybe 10% of total. So yeah, i don't see honor gains as being out of control. What I do see is a end to the zerging the generals strategy in AV, since it will be more profitable to down all the towers, then turtle for 30 minutes.