World firsts on the PTR
by Mike Schramm 
Feb 14th 2008 at 4:31PM
So here's the question: Do PTR world first kills count? MMO Champion has done a great job of following along with world firsts in the Sunwell on the PTR, and Vis Maior, an Alliance guild on Bonechewer has done most, if not all, of them-- they were the documented first to topple Kalecgos, Brutallus, and Felmyst (Forgotten Heroes and our old friends in Death and Taxes are also among the first boss downers on the PTR). But do kills on the PTR count as world firsts, or do the kills need to happen on live realms before they're considered world firsts?Now, I know lots of you readers don't care about world first kills anyway (and you've got a point-- the only down that matter is the one you do with your guild), but lots of players believe there is value in being the first guild in the game to down a boss, and certainly the best guilds in the world work really hard for that honor. But technically, a boss isn't really "done" until it reaches the live realms. Then again, it usually isn't "done" yet anyway even after that.
Personally, I don't think they do count, which is one reason why we haven't yet reported them on this site. I have to applaud Vis Maior and the other guilds for their hard work, and I'm definitely impressed by what they've done, but this content isn't done yet, and in terms of documenting who got there first, my opinion is that we need to wait until after the bosses hit the live realms. You readers disagree?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff, Guilds, Odds and ends, Instances, Raiding, Bosses, NPCs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tara Feb 14th 2008 4:37PM
They don't count. The content on the test realms is subject to change. If they beat someone too easily, Blizzard will tune the fight more difficult. Until it goes live, the bosses they're bringing down could be very different from the ones we'll be seeing.
Gordon W Feb 14th 2008 4:42PM
That's a good point too, they'll tweak it to make it tougher for the live realms probably only to make it easier a couple of months later after heavy whining on the official forums by casuals so you've thrown away a huge amount of your life for what probably amounts to +50-+100 damage increase vs your previous gear, maybe cool trinket oh and a pair of shoulders that make your character look like a barbie doll in hockey gear.
Neil Feb 14th 2008 4:39PM
Mostly disagree. Someone downing a big boss on the PTR should count as a world first ... it's the first time that mob has been killed, and all the strategies have to be learned on the fly. By the time those mobs get to the live realms there's a very good chance their patterns and abilities have already been learned and shared from the PTR, making the achievement of downing them less in my opinion.
People downing a boss on the PTR are doing it from scratch, with no known strategies. They deserve the credit.
Green Armadillo Feb 14th 2008 11:37PM
I'd put more faith in PTR "firsts" (bosses are often balanced after players encounter them on live realms) if it weren't for the borked character copy. It's not exactly a level playing field when most of us can't transfer characters cause the copy utility is down.
Then again, we had this problem with the AQ40 event, and are going to have it again with the back half of SW25 - servers with lots of BT-level guilds are going to unlock the later bosses much faster than servers with only one Illidan guild.
Jorelos Feb 14th 2008 4:39PM
Congratulations and all it took was wasting their entire life on the PTR when it is going to get entirely wiped anyway when this instance of the PTR is over. I love WoWInsider but it's hard to respect this as a serious blog when you're still giving these idiots publicity for something that doesn't even mean anything on the real server.
?nema Feb 14th 2008 5:29PM
Because WoW Insider needs your respect to be considered a serious blog? LOL, GTFO imo and go read about how to gem your warlock correctly. I bet all that crit really helps out your dps amirite? So you dont arena and dont you raid? Why does your opinion on what raiding guilds are doing count?
And YOU call the guys on the PTR idiots? Once you have Illidan on farm i'm sure you'd get bored and want to do something else like...I dunno...the PTR? /gasp
Have a nice day ^__^
wyrd Feb 14th 2008 7:28PM
Why do you care if they are getting publicity? Anyone who knows anything knows the kills they are getting are on the PTR. Does it hurt you somehow for they to be recognized for doing somthing? The fact that the fight might change doesnt take away from the fact that they killed a boss that hadent existed before. Maybe the live version will be harder, maybe it will be easier. Who cares?
Balasan Feb 14th 2008 4:40PM
It doesn't count IMO. Especially since the concept of new bosses being unlocked now involves the whole server and not just one guild. In all probability Nihilum won't be the world first this time, depending on how good their server is.
Oh, and what tara said.
Mellisande Feb 14th 2008 4:40PM
Personally, I'd have to say that I strongly disagree. I think that kills on the test realms are the only ones that count. Why? Because this is the first time people have ever seen this boss. The people who kill it on the PTR's are the ones who develop the initial strategies and see if they work. By the time the new encounters go to the regular realms I'm sure that all the top guilds have the fights down pretty smoothly. It's just a matter of who gets the patch first or the required loot to kill a given boss. No, the ones on the test realms who are the first to figure out how the encounters work are the real first kills.
IMHO of course! :)
Ben Feb 15th 2008 5:54AM
I absolutely agree with Mellisande: PTR kills, if anything, count MORE than live kills. Every raid instance from BWL forward has been run on strats developed on the PTR, and here's a sneaky little hint: the first three live kills will be done by the guilds that got the first three PTR kills. They may shift a bit {ptr kill one makes live kill 2}, but not much.
Boss tuning may involve tinkering with exploits, etc, but it doesn't make enough difference to be a major upset in the "PTR first, Live first" factor.
If D&T had gotten the PTR kill first, this wouldn't even be a question. Is it so unthinkable that there's a new major player on the bleeding edge raid scene?
Chris Feb 14th 2008 5:17PM
Normally I would say PTR counts, this time I don't think it should as it's been 3 days and I still can't get my character copied over. When it's live everyone has the same chances. :D
Sneakstar Feb 14th 2008 4:41PM
They don't count.
Wait till the real content is released then beat it if you want to have a world 1st!
Bloodelfer Feb 14th 2008 4:48PM
dont count coz most of the accounts havent been transfered or transfer was fucked up
Adorable1 Feb 14th 2008 4:49PM
What do you get for being the server's last? I'm still banging my head against Hogger?
Sydal Feb 14th 2008 4:52PM
Do they keep the gear? Does the progress they make cause their guilds to be ahead when the Sunwell goes live and entire servers work together?
No? Then this doesn't count.
Tomako Feb 14th 2008 5:45PM
European players still can't copy their characters on the PTR... consequently these first kills can't be fairs
WeirdoKitty Feb 14th 2008 4:54PM
Did it count when Blizzard's internal testers and developers first took down a boss?
Buuty Feb 14th 2008 4:58PM
Of course they don't count. Valid points have already been made as to why.
How can you think that you achieved a world first when the boss is being TESTED! Key word is TEST realm, hence the full boss mechanics and abilites may, and will, be changed.
Also, as a LONG time video game player and fan, I find it amusing that nowadays many gamers think that getting beat over and over and over until you figure out how not to be owned by the boss is somehow considered "developing the initial strategies" You didn't develop a boss strat, you got owned until you figured out how to live.. I'm sorry, but logically those are 2 diffferent things.
Think about war....we don't send wave after wave of armed forces in and let them get slaughtered until we "figure it out" That is what these "first world kills" are, nothing more...IMHO
Buuty Feb 14th 2008 4:59PM
Also, competition has to be part of the equation as well, and many guild do not participate in the PTR. COme the the live server and compter with other guild trying to do the same things. THAT is a world first kill!
Buuty Feb 14th 2008 5:01PM
oh, and what Jorelos said....stop giving these people publicity...most of us could care less.