Balancing crowd control
by Mike Schramm 
Feb 18th 2008 at 8:00PM
Relmstein has an interesting commentary up about crowd control in World of Warcraft, and how balancing it is imperative to get PvP done right. It used to be that fear was the main problem, but now that fear has been nerfed and balanced with so many other abilities, it's just crowd control in general that has become the main issue. Instead of Warlocks and Mages ruling the roost with Fear and Polymorph, almost every class has picked up their own little methods of stopping other players in their tracks momentarily.And thus, says Relmstein, the quicker abilities are becoming more powerful. Blind and Cyclone are the two main abilities he mentions, and both are extremely powerful in that they can be used by Rogues and Druids in conjunction with their escape abilities. And on the other side of the equation, Relmstein says that burst damage is king-- doing serious damage in between those moments where crowd control can stop you is critical. And that's why Warriors (and to an extent, he says, Hunters) are doing so well in the Arenas. When you can break out a ton of damage and debuffs during someone else's global cooldown, you're going to go a long way towards winning.
And it'll be interesting to see where this all goes in the future. With the recent changes to spell haste and the curving up of gear in the expansion, things are just going to get faster and faster-- players are going to be able to push out damage quicker and quicker, and crowd control will be more and more powerful.
Filed under: Druid, Hunter, Rogue, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Buffs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Flaime Feb 18th 2008 8:18PM
The problem is that they are balancing abilities for PvP but they never go back and fix the bread and butter of this game: PVE. So they screw up the vast majority of what the game is about for a half dozen whiners who can't come up with a creative strategy for beating their foes. And besides, 2v2 will never really be balanced. And has always been a bad idea.
Izbay Feb 18th 2008 8:22PM
^^^ Up-vote x infinity ^^^
Xenite Feb 18th 2008 8:23PM
CC Like healing is fairly overpowered in PVP. I just finished an AV where I was guarding a tower, get feared... trinket out. Get feared again DW out, soon as it poofs get feared again, BR out of it... go back in get feared a 4th time, ridiculous.
Thank god I did get caught in battle stance. Woulda been hosed after the second fear.
Lucas Feb 18th 2008 8:57PM
i see wut u did thar
Azureblood Feb 18th 2008 9:41PM
there's also scatter shot for hunters its pretty useful, although i don't play one myself. but Death coil and fear ftw :D
Slayblaze Feb 18th 2008 10:47PM
I read the article (editorial) and he is absolutely right, however I have another question for everyone to mull over: when it comes right down to it, do we really want true balance in WoW?
What I mean is... look at other popular player vs player computer/video games in general, and there are 2 basic type *other than* MMO-style PVP.
1) A truly pure balance such as non-class based First Person Shooters. Unreal Tournament, Halo, or the Quake series is true PVP where every single person has the same "gear" or abilities from the beginning. There is nothing besides skill and knowledge that will help you here. If you suck, you either learn to get better or you lose. A true Balance.
2) 1 vs 1 Fighters such as the Street Fighter series or Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, etc. These game rely enormously on skill and knowledge of the game, yet each character has strengths and weakness which are unique. The attempt by the developers have been to balance the different attacks and abilities of each choice, but each will perform differently based on the play style of the player, and a true balance is never achieved. There are always certain characters which are perceived as being under- or over-powered.
The 3rd type of PVP is that of MMO's such as WoW or Guild Wars or any of a myriad of other titles. While different games, they all share the same basic principles really, those which anyone who has been playing WoW for a while are well aquainted with. Its NOT balanced PVP, and it is not supposed to be.
The very nature of the imbalance is what makes the game so interesting and intricate for the PVP-minded players. If every player was exactly the same (like in those balanced FPS's) how long would it hold people's interest? The MMO style of PVP is a CHOICE...if you don't like having an unbalance, then there are tons and tons of other games you could be playing which are just as good and enjoyable as WoW is. Really!
I for one love the challenge that WoW's PVP provides with all of its inequalities and rough edges, and the changes that Blizz makes which teach me to adapt and learn new strategies. That is WHY I choose to play WoW mostly as opposed to some of the other excellent PVP choices that I have. Ans I think that when you really really think about it, most of you agree.
bulgur Feb 19th 2008 8:21AM
Best. Post. Ever.
Long live the rough edges and infinite choices and differences.
Bob Feb 19th 2008 9:13AM
WoW is the first MMO I have ever played, and coming from Quake/Halo style PvP I agree. FPS PvP gets old quick. But in WoW each match in a BG or world encounter is different. Last night in Stonetalon I (feral druid) got a warlock, and a paladin, a hunter managed to get me down at the same time I killed him, and I got completly destroyed three times by a priest. Each fight was differnt and exciting. In halo it would simply have been a matter of which one of us got the rocket launcher first. If you want total balance the only way it is going to happen is if every class comes with a shotgun, 4 grenades and the same amount of armor/HP. Learn to Play.
onetrueping Feb 19th 2008 12:06AM
I'd personally like to see aggro-based abilities see some PvP functionality. Aggro-dumping abilities should work similar to Feign Death, essentially causing everyone hostile who's targeted you to drop target. This would make Fade an important tool in the PvP Priest arsenal, for one.
Aggro-gaining abilities such as Sunder Armor, Growl, and the like, should force the other player to target you, though they should still be allowed to re-target to another player afterwards. It could buy your healers and other squishies that extra bit of time they need to lay the smack down.
Aggro-retargeting abilities would do the opposite, causing the opponent to target a character you specify. Admittedly these abilities are rare, but imagine how useful it would be to have a Hunter force a Mage or Warlock to target a Warrior or Paladin instead of the rogue, priest, mage, or other soft target.
Rather than being overpowered, these changes would simply allow those used to using such abilities use them in all situations, as well as keeping the abilities consistent through all applications. Plus, it'd sure help out on the teamwork front in battlegrounds!
Alexisonfire Feb 19th 2008 12:16AM
Crowd control really gets on my nerves. I mean, I'm getting really sick of all those shamans with their...
Oh wait.
souvlaki Feb 19th 2008 3:38AM
As a lock i no longer can fearlock someone because of diminishing returns, but i can be stunlocked owned by rogues. With my warlock no deal 'cause a rogue in good equipment will kill him in two shots, but I have to see my warrior rooted until the last hit.
If a second fear is not the full duration, why a second stun is?
Bearskunk Feb 19th 2008 4:03AM
Lately sap has become the most annoying and imbalanced CC in BGs. Bunch of guys trying to cap a flag? Rogue running circles, sapping people without getting into combat and out of stealth. nerf plz. 20s cooldown should do the trick.
souvlaki Feb 19th 2008 4:21AM
No nerf, it shouldn't affect to PVE, just make it subject to diminishing returns as in Fear. If someone stuns you the second time you should be more AWARE, so that second stun should not be the full cycle or fail.
SneakyZM Feb 19th 2008 8:09AM
Umm, Sap IS subject to diminishing returns. Each back-to-back sap has less duration than the last in PvP.
Bearskunk Feb 19th 2008 4:12AM
heh, rogue with maces on your ass? just go read news and tab back to the game to collect your corpse.
Piccara Feb 19th 2008 4:25AM
I think the answer to problems should be to druids, since they have no chance to "survive" no methods of CC and then nerf shamans CC abilities, which are way overpowered.
Bunkai Feb 19th 2008 11:58AM
Do I smell sarcasm there? Maybe just a tiny bit?
Shaman CC FTW!!!
Bearskunk Feb 19th 2008 8:17AM
12 - did I mention diminishing returns in regards to sap? noooo, I dont think so.
vildand Feb 19th 2008 9:25AM
World of Warcraft isn't perfectly balanced for things like small group pvp, because it's a group game. But you will find high ranked people in the arenas on many "odd" combinations, combinations you wouldn't have long to find some raving idiot claim are impossible to do well on.
But if you think the balance is bad in World of Warcraft you frankly havn't played any other MMO, because in my 10 years of MMOing World of Warcraft is by far the most balanced I've seen.
Balance wasn't really a topic in the early days, but I guess peoples wrongfully perception of themselves as AWESOME GODS have helped make a long lane for the whinefests going around for every newer MMO. Because the truth is that most of us are average players, this is why they call the majority average afterall.
woeye Feb 19th 2008 10:08AM
@6
- Quake Wars:Enemy Territory has classes and is known to be very balanced
- Guild Wars has classes for a long time now and is known to be very balanced
- Warcraft III, from the very same company, has different classes and races and yet it is known to be one of the best balanced RTS games
Balancing is not a trivial task. But it is doable. Even for an MMORPG as Guild Wars proves. Patching PvP class balance every few months, like Blizzard does with WoW, is absurd and not professional at all. SK-Gaming shows pretty well, that 2vs2 and 3vs3 needs balancing. Yet Blizzard ignores those facts for months.