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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the day: Welfare Epics
by Amanda Dean 
Feb 18th 2008 at 3:00PM
What does it take to get epic gear? Well you can do arenas or battlegrounds and save up points for gear. It takes a few weeks of arenas to get a piece of the most recent releases. A good weekend of battlegrounds might net you a piece or two. You can do raids for epic drops. It can take weeks to learn fights and clear raids. A hard night of raiding could earn you nothing but a repair bill.
Among raiding and PvP, which shows more dedication and skill? The term "welfare epic" has popped up to describe gear that some believe is given to a player without the appropriate level of effort. In his official forum post, Kaizersosay of Spirestone asserted that there are no welfare epics- that every piece of purple loot takes effort. He said that the phrase welfare epic is elitist. The thread sparked a lively discussion of welfare epics for both PvE and PvP players.
Players can get PvP gear without a single win or a kill by doggedly queuing up for battlegrounds and arenas. Blizzard has been making this type of gear increasingly easy to get by introducing daily quests that give honor. They have also made arena gear available for honor points rather than arena points. In this scenario, it could take several weeks to get a piece of season three equipment. You don't have to be good, just persistent.
The other side of the argument is that raiding gear in many circumstances could be considered welfare epics. A single player does not necessarily have to pull their weight to get the best gear they just have to be present. (Though guilds would likely have words with such a player) Also, once a guild has an instance on farm status, they may trade out their mains for alts and gear up those toons without putting in an extraordinary raid effort. Again, you don't have to be good, just persistent?
What is a welfare epic?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Raiding, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 6)
Slayblaze Feb 18th 2008 3:16PM
I thought the term was funny at first, but I don't really believe in "welfare epics" either. I got some good gear through raiding, but it wasn't any harder to get than the PVP gear really. There are a lot of people raiding who aren't really that great of a player, they just get aqquainted with the fights and know their class a little. Once you've downed a raid boss once or twice, its amazing how easy it really is and how it can be done without much effort at all. Just know where to stand and which few buttons to hit and don't die. How is that any harder than getting gear through PVPing? Its not. I've been there and seen both sides of the coin...either way is just a matter of time.
Moketronics Feb 18th 2008 3:40PM
lol - see above.
the point is that you can get PvP epics by simply being there. That is not going to get you through a raid. Whether its Hogger or Illidan, neither will go down no matter how many people stand around AFK.
Malachi154 Feb 19th 2008 12:37PM
Exactly. It's all a matter of time spent. Time spent grinding thru an instance, or time spent grinding thru a battleground or Arena. Both have their deadbeats. Neither dead beat will progress very far, very fast. The PVPer with 0 kills, 0 damage and 0 heals will be reported and banned, or if he's in arena, his rating will drop so low that honor barely trickles in. The raider who floats on the work of others and does minimal damage will eventually get kicked. But both will get gear for comparitively no effort and for just 'being there'. As much as it annoy's posters like Butler, both systems are comparable...
Zumwalah Feb 18th 2008 3:20PM
id define any welfare epic, and an epic you buy off the AH. the rest are earned, even if you craft one of said epics, you earned it. its people who buy gold of those chinese spammers, and the procede to buy crappy epix wtih them, they are the ones wearing welfare epics.
Andy Feb 18th 2008 3:50PM
So if I buy a really nice pick up truck through eBay, with money that I went out and earned, it is a welfare pickup? I disagree, if someone has legitimately earned enough gold to buy one off the AH they earned the epic.
Myke Feb 18th 2008 4:07PM
I buy epics from the AH. I don't buy gold from people, and I don't use mods banned by Blizzard. I spend 20-30 minutes a day scanning auctions, buying low and selling high. Yesterday I bought and then resold an epic dagger and made 25G for less than a minute's worth of effort. Maybe to you that's cheating, to me it's smart management. I'm just surprised that so many people undervalue the stuff they put up for auction.
jr Feb 19th 2008 11:00AM
an epic you buy off the AH was not free of effort or time. You had to pay the gold. BG epics take no time or effort as you can afk in av and get your epic in time therefore they are welfare. Also if you think you can be carried in raids , you havn't raided.
MechChef Feb 18th 2008 3:27PM
I've (metaphorically and electronically) bled for every purple I own. I don't cave, I always try to win. I can't be as competitive in PVE and PVP w/ one set of gear anymore, so I work for both.
BillDoor Feb 18th 2008 3:27PM
Who the F* cares? I play this game for the experience and fun, not for the gear. Having said that, I'm proud of my gearset, and the work, fun, friendship and experiences that went into getting it.
Furthermore, getting all upset over where gear comes from makes no sense, when we'll all be back to wearing mismatched greens and blues come Lich King launch.
Charlie Feb 18th 2008 3:30PM
The problem with the welfare epics idea is that it crosses a time = reward boundry. Someone made a very good post about 2-3 months back (that i am now going to slaughter). Basically it was along the lines that in PvE its about the quality of the gear, and in PvP its about the quantity. If that makes any sesnse. Good PvP is based around a fact that everyone is equal. So you make gear relatively acessable to all and put alot of gear outthere so that the best can get it quickly. In PvE you want to have a edge gear wise on an opponent (boss). So you put progressively better loot as you get deeper into progression.
When PvErs talk about welfare epics, they see people getting raid quality loot eazier than they are getting it, by not putting forth as much time and effort. The problem is they are looking at it from a time/effort = quality scenario, whcih doesn't apply in PvP.
They are two very separate things, and wehn you try to cross the boundries it gets sticky.
Malachi154 Feb 19th 2008 12:44PM
I disagree. PVE takes more time investement than PVP, but PVP takes more effort. I've done both, and PVE is more about placement, a couple of button sequences, and trying not to die. PVP is more about outsmarting your opponent, having intimate knowledge of how your class works, and using terrain to your best advantage. PVP is all about repitition, PVE is never the same thing twice. The only class this theory doesn't effect are healers, who have to work their ass off regardless if its PVP or PVE...
Malachi154 Feb 19th 2008 12:46PM
Darn it, that line should read: PVE is all about repitition, PVP is never the same thing twice.
Nick S Feb 18th 2008 3:31PM
being able to grind your way to >kara gear with 0 teamwork, 0 discipline, 0 knowledge of you class, literally NOTHING but free time (or a good macro!) is ridiculous to me.
i think that pvp gear should be more balanced toward pvp. knock off the spell damage and attack power, replace it with more resilience, more stamina, more special pvp-ey abilities.
i was almost literally forced to grind honor for the S1 staff for my mage. that's neither fun nor challenging; it's just a grind.
Rudolphe Feb 18th 2008 3:32PM
I don't see how someone can call an epic bought off the AH a welfare epic. Didn't you have to work to get the gold to buy the epic? Another example of...
"You don't have to be good, just persistent."
Wilhem Feb 18th 2008 3:33PM
I don't think the big issue here is "welfare epics", but people trying to raid in said pvp epics. Karazhan is one thing, you can usually drag the phat pvp purps player through with a well outfitted pve geared group. But doing things like SSC and TK with the pvp geared player? Watch them drop to the bottom of your damage charts, we're talking barely above the tanks in terms of output (i'm talking from a DPS POV here). Sure a few of the items give some useful pve skills, but 400 resil means nothing against Leo, and stacking spell pen won't get you higher damage against loot reaver. And no, to the mage i argued this with, having higher armor on a cloth piece does not make it better than the one with lots of spell hit and high spell damage.
Algorithm Feb 18th 2008 5:26PM
I still use my honor-earned Season 3 cloth DPS bracers to PvE. There aren't that many that are better. Certainly better than everything SSC, TK, Hyjal, ZA, Kara, Heroic bosses, badges.
Milktub Feb 18th 2008 3:34PM
I try to think not in terms of welfare versus non-welfare. Because, yes, you can "get lucky" with a world drop. Did I work any less hard to get my Platinum Shield of the Valorous because I got it on my first SLabs run? Or did I work harder than others to get my Jade-Skull Breastplate because it took me 18 runs (which I'm not actually equipping because I have better gear ... durrr)?
But I do have less respect for PvP geared folks, primarily because I have had so much trouble with PuGs involving PvP geared players. Basically it boils down to PvP teaches you absolutely nothing about PvE encounters and group work.
kenney Feb 18th 2008 3:37PM
People will always try to make their accomplishments seem greater by diminishing the accomplishments of others.
Having a high arena rating takes skill. Coordinating end-game raids takes skill. Using gear as a metric for accomplishment (as opposed to arena rating or bosses downed) is usually an indicator that the player involved hasn't really accomplished much, or has an insecurity complex.
Andy Feb 18th 2008 3:39PM
Stereotypically a person on welfare stays at home, sleeps all day and waits for his/her welfare check to come in so they can buy their crack and boos. You all are talking about people showing up and simply not doing anything. That is called “goldbricking”.
So in essence it should be called “Goldbrick Epics”
Malachi154 Feb 19th 2008 12:52PM
Following your logic, raid gear should be called "no skill epics". It doesn't take much skill to know where to stand, what 3 buttons to mash and when to potion... And what about Badge gear? Someone surely will come along with a detrimental name for it because it only took 5 people running heroics to get that....
How about we respect raid gear for the commitment it takes to get, and we respect PVP gear for the skill it takes to get....