Guildwatch: Ninja happens

I've been fortunate enough to have never seen a ninja go down live (as seen in the pic above), but I know it happens all the time. Master Looter, people! Of course, even then, if you pass off Master Looter to the wrong person, you're still going to see some trouble. And with the name changes and server transfers nowadays, you just kind of have to let it go. Ninja, as they might say, happens.
Click the link below to see this week's GW, which is full to the brim with drama and downed news. We've got recruiting news, too, but not as much as usual-- if you've got a tip for next week, from your guild or another, sent it along to wowguildwatch@gmail.com. And we'll ninja it right out from under you.
Click the link below to see this week's GW, which is full to the brim with drama and downed news. We've got recruiting news, too, but not as much as usual-- if you've got a tip for next week, from your guild or another, sent it along to wowguildwatch@gmail.com. And we'll ninja it right out from under you.
DRAMA
- Congratulations are in order to Skylar, a priest in the Society of Dungeoneers on EU Moonglade. She picked up a legendary drop: a baby boy. We heard that efforts by the guild to get her to name the kid Thrall aren't working out so well. But nice try anyway, guys, and grats Skylar.
- I have a feeling this one might have been anonymous tipped to us because of some bad blood, but we'll put it here anyway: Rumor has it that The Nameless on Moonrunner has turned down a merge offer with El Oh El. One of Nameless' members, we are told, apparently was abusing guild bank access and complaining that he was never able to go into Karazhan, so when the guild merge was denied, that member /gquit and headed over to El Oh El on his own.
- These WoW-ized songs come from a few crazy folks on the Windrunner forums. Not sure what guild they come from, but if song lyrics rewritten to fit WoW are your thing, there you go.
- We posted just a tidbit about Shafted on Baelgun last week, and members of the guild emailed to let us know that they had no idea who the "drunken officer" we were tipped about was. One of them said that they did have two guildies who left the guild saying that they "weren't fun anymore," but they both confirmed that the guild is hardly on its last legs -- looks like our tipsters were way off base. We also hear, from another tip, that Shafted recently refused to run Clannada Draconis through Karazhan any longer, since there were actual guildies that wanted to go along. To that, we only say to CD: get your own Karazhan run.
- Ninja alert on Eitrigg: Hashbrownz. He's unrepentant, too-- he shows up in this other thread as "Steakhoof" bragging that he's still wearing the gear he ninja'ed. Rumor is that he's headed to Alleria next. Until Blizzard decides to start laying the smack down on ninjas ingame (and don't hold your breath on that one), gotta keep Master Looter set at all times.
- The Bronze Kettle, which is apparently the guild from the folks at Bronze Kettle) has joined up with Death's Hand Dark Iron-A. They've just started in Kara, and they're recruiting level 65+ for raiding-- Attumen and Moroes down, Maiden on notice.
- Another correction about our note on Pheonix Fury on Blackhand-H last week (someone in the guild emailed us himself): apparently Eiryz didn't get kicked, she and her boyfriend /gquit. And though the guild supposedly made allowances for them for a while, they were eventually just not able to take them raiding due to their not adhering to the guild's policies. They deny any vendetta on the part of the officers, but of course that's between Eiryz and Gabcynth and the officers themselves. At any rate, my advice is the same: if you've got a job that keeps you from attending raids all the time, find a new guild without a 75% attendance policy. Problem solved on both sides. Time to put this issue to rest, so thanks for playing the drama game, Pheonix Fury, and better luck next time.
- Here's a little RP-PvP action: the folks on Venture Co. are organizing another RP-PvP campaign. The first one was called Shadows over Khaz Modan (and actually looks pretty interesting), and this latest is called The Fall of Legends.
- An anonymous tipster from Ravencrest says that guild members of Revelation are shopping around for a new guild to join up with after the attunements drop after patch 2.4. Not only that but there are apparently multiple groups inside Revelation trying to jump ship, with one group even calling other members of the guild "untrustworthy." What's it mean when the rats start leaving the ship?
- Requiem on Silvermoon-H downed Anetheron on their second night of trying, and they're also still seeking resto druids.
- Mercenaries on Zuluhed-A sounds like a fun little guild of friends, and they've gotten all the way up to Prince in Karazhan. They also want me to say that a prot pally can tank anything, because apparently people haven't joined their guild because of the prot pally tank. You guys are lucky I haven't played my warrior in a while, otherwise I'd challenge you on that.
- Revolution on EU Azjol-Nerub had an influx of raiders from Synergy and as a result dropped Kael'thas like he was hot. They even sent a video of it.
- Recklessness (they didn't mention a server) has been through a lot in Kara, but now they've cleared up to Prince and they're working on a second group. "Worth every wipe," that's our motto here at GW.
- The September Movement on Arathor-H one-shotted Curator, and cleared out Aran, Illhoof and Netherspite, too. Grats!
- "Always drama-free" Vigilante Justice on Spinebreaker-H came home from church on Sunday and put down Prince. Kudos to them for the down, but calling yourself "drama-free," in my experience, is asking for trouble. But hey, good luck.
- Sin on Durotan-A is rolling along-- they've dropped Tidewalker, Karathress, Solarian, Leo and Al'ar all in the space of a week or two. Vashj is on notice!
- Singularities from EU Dentarg had their first taste of both Hyjal and Black Temple the past 2 weeks and have downed the 3 first bosses of each instance. Additionally, they're seeking extra healers to continue the bloodshed.
- Unusual from Demon Soul has completely whipped Kael'thas' butt, and brought down Rage Winterchill as well. Archimonde and Illidian have reason to lock their (figurative) doors at night-- you never know when there might be a guild lurking around outside your instance.
- Group 2.0 on Silvermoon got their first kill of Tidewalker and then downed Leo and then Karathress on our first night of serious attempts on both of them. Vashj is on notice.
- Divide et Impera from EU Norgannon took down Terestian Illhoof, Netherspite and finally the Prince himself, all in their first Karazhan ID. Nightbane is on notice, and after that it's on to ZA!
- Untouchables on EU Lightbringer-A managed to down both Hydross the Unstable and The Lurker Below over the past couple of weeks. Great progression!
- Blood Knight Champions on EU Darkspear downed Curator on their first night on him. Last time around, they finished off Attumen and Maiden, and this week they're up to the Chess Event.
- Raid Intentions (which is a meta-raiding guild on Malorne-A) took down Loot Reaver and Tidewalker. Al'ar is on notice (and they've got their eye on Karathress, too, but you only get one notice per week, folks).
- Kiwi Raiders on Baelgun-A is proud to have completed their first full clear of Karazhan and finally walked into Zul'Aman for the first time, successfully killing Nalorakk. Grats!
- Obsidia on EU Eonar is leading the server through the final progression-- they've taken down Kael, Vashj, rolled through Mount Hyjal and BT, and now have Illidan in their sights before patch 2.4.
- Dreamscape on EU Draenor-H rolled into Karazan and one-shotted Attumen, Moroes, Maiden and Romeo and Juliet all in their first visit. Curator is on notice.
- Meltdown on Hydraxis-A has downed Leotheras the Blind, and only has Fathom Lord left in SSC before taking on Vashj.
- The Noble Europeans on EU Agamaggan-H downed Azgalor in Mount Hyjal. Rock on, guys.
- Ascension of Blackwater Raiders-H has downed Kael'thas (Loot'thas?) for a server first! They're psyched to go into BT and Hyjal, so much so that they say: "For the Horde!" And rumor has it that Alliance guild Slow Motion whined about it in the forums, but unfortunately the thread got deleted.
- Meta on Stormscale downed up through Kaz'Rogal in Hyjal. And I don't always include screenshots, but considering they dropped him on the 13th, this screenshot was too good to miss out on.
- Vigilante Justice on Spinebreaker-H downed Prince this week, and they followed that up with a Nalorakk down later on. "Akil'zon," they say, "then proceeded to make us doubt our choice of hobbies, but still." I won't like: I lol'ed.
- Delirium on Kirin Tor-A brought Vashj a box of chocolates on Valentine's Day, and though she didn't know what she was gonna get, they did: downed! KT is on notice, and grats to all the folks there who made it happen.
- Dragonblight of Gnomeregan-A US has downed Kael'thas Sunstrider. "Onto Hyjal!" they triumphantly proclaim, before getting a little lost and having to ask directions from the big dragon in front of CoT. No, I'm just kidding; they know where it is.
- Hallowed Valor on Eonar downed Loot Reaver and Hydross on back-to-back raid nights, and then Lurker right after that.
- Forget Your Sanity (winner of this week's Best Guild Name award) on Rexxar took down Loot Reaver nd put Hydross on notice.
- Beach Party of Malorne-A, downed Gruul this week, on the guild's first try. They're also recruiting a few more folks, too, so join up if you want to go with them.
- Care Bears on Medivh-A, has just done it's first full clear of Kara all the way to the Prince, including Netherbane, and on their first guild attempt downed him.
- Modus Operandi on Sentinels-A has downed Kael'thas, 3rd on the server and 2nd Alliance side. Grats!
- Echoes of Azeroth on Thorium Brotherhood dropped Fathom-Lord Karathress and Leotheras the Blind in SSC to move the guild progression in SSC to 5/6, then went to take out Void Reaver and Al'ar and finished off the night with Solarian and an Alliance first on the server; a full clear of Zul'Aman. Nice job, that's quite a night.
- Singularities of EU Dentarg are shooting through both Hyjal Summit and Black Temple and has already having downed the first 4 bosses of each instance during the past few weeks. They're also recruiting healers and maybe a mage.
- Angry Penguins on Kargath-A downed Attumen on their first Kara guild run, and then took down Moroes then went on to Maiden, who didn't know what hit her. Nice.
- Resurrected of Mok'nathal-A took down Archimonde. T6 FTW!
- FortyTwo of Whisperwind took down Leotheras the Blind tonight. Tidewalker on notice!
- Forsaken of Thrall (they're on Thrall-A, but I'm not sure if their name is "Forsaken of Thrall" or just "Forsaken") have downed HKM with help from their friends at Death From Above. They're still seeking mages and healers (and anyone else interested in raiding maturely) to fill out their 25-man group.
- Slackers of the Horde is recruiting "lazy raiders" on Barthilas. They say they're casual but pro, and mature but crazy, which means lots of loot but no respeccing or DKP. Sounds fun.
- Full of Wit on Shu'halo-A, is currently recruiting all levels. They're a relatively new and small guild, but are focused on teamwork and know that real life always comes first. They're seeking mature players who appreciate exploring the game together as one.
- Crimson Blood Clan on Steamwheedle Cartel-H is currently recruiting for raiders geared for SSC/TK. They've just recently downed Mag and are currently working on Leotheras.
- The First Responders on Lightning's Blade-H are looking for mature, friendly, and easygoing players for Heroic 5mans and eventually Karazhan and ZA. They're looking for healers and a mix of DPS.
- Ashes from the Phoenix on Scarlet Crusade-A is searching for a few who are willing to continue their fight. They say that they "are in need of those who are willing to fight in the trenches (tanks) and spiritual leaders (healers) to continue our battles mainly however any and all shall be welcomed comrade in arms." Crazy roleplayers (I kid!).
- Blades of Light on Sentinels is recruiting raiders (tanks and healers especially) for the transition to 25-man raids. They aren't a hardcore raiding guild, but they are serious about progression. And their GL is cool, because she reads this column. So she'll know exactly what to do when drama rears its ugly head.
Filed under: Guilds, Instances, Humor, Guildwatch, Bosses






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jaxson_bateman Feb 20th 2008 2:36AM
First up, from the brief look I had at the Kael-ninja posts, it seems that they did use ML, but the ML had dc'd which meant the loot defaulted to rolls. At least that's what I could make of it. People, unless a fight prevents you from doing it (Vashj/ZA speed run are the only two I've encountered myself) use master looter!
Anyway, I just don't get why a player would go and ninja all that crap. Most of it they couldn't use, and at best they're going to get void crystals for. Yep, that's totally more satisfying and bad ass then letting your fellow raiders taking it. Seriously, do people get off on being jerks sometimes? I just don't understand their mentality.
apoxic Feb 20th 2008 8:10AM
The guilds I've been in, and officer of for that matter, has rarely used master loot. This is due to several things, however the biggest one in my mind comes as: Trust your guildies. If we can't trust our guild mates with a simple task of "not ninja-looting" I'd rather have them do it, so we can kick them and move on. Having a person ninja looting on one boss might make a few sad faces, but in the end of the day, its just loot that most likely will drop again.
Cynra Feb 20th 2008 8:49AM
From my experience in raids, if the Master Looter DCs in the middle of the fight, the loot gained from downing that boss actually is unaccessible to all raiders. It remains that way even if you switch Master Looter to someone remaining in the raid.
Looking over the posts, apparantly their loot policy during the Kael'Thas fight is to not make it Master Looter because of the mechanics of that fight. During that time, legendary weapons spawn during the second phase after all of the advisors have been defeated the first time. After defeating each weapon, they can be picked up by raiders and are subsequently used in the fight (and for the remainder of their stay in Tempest Keep; they promptly disappear after you leave the instance).
From my limited experience with the fight, the weapons are able to be snagged by raiders without having the threshold set low enough for people to pick up legendary items. As such, Master Looter would probably have been an acceptable alternative. However, guild members have stated on those threads that this is also guild policy for this reason and also the ML disconnect reason, which seems to be happening frequently (from what I understand). Either way, I wholeheartedly advocate picking Master Looter in raids, not only to avoid this, but to ensure that accidental boo-boo's don't crop up.
Swarfy Feb 20th 2008 2:52AM
CD Is doing a 50/50 (Or close to) run with RiP. So Shafted no longer has to worry about them. CD HAD an association with Shafted until the members started b*tching that the loot was going outside of the guild. Shafted killed Vashj this past week... why should they care. They were gearing up alts. Yep Mains were b*tching that their alts weren't getting loot.
I smell the same sh*t that happen on blackhand. The GM and a few other members of shafted knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
cybershamus Feb 20th 2008 9:53AM
What kinda scrub-ass guild uses master loot? Who would invite someone to their guild that they didn't trust?
I'm so sick of the L2ML people.
Seeing the "loot changed to master loot" message is bad vibes. Are there really respectable guilds out there who ML?
Wirehead Feb 20th 2008 11:12AM
Very simple reason to use Master Loot.
Blizzard will generally not fix loot problems unless you are using ML. My guild started out never using it, and after one person made a mistake during a fast clear of Karazhan and accidentally needed on the wrong item (two trash drops on one pull), the GM refused to restore the item to the person who should've gotten it. He said that since we weren't using Master Loot, they wouldn't fix it. As a result, a warrior ended up with a Rittsyn's Lost Pendant. I assume he still has it. We've used Master Loot on every fight we could ever since, only for that reason.
Of course, recently on Mount Hyjal trash where you pretty much HAVE to use Group Loot another error was made, and the GM had no problem restoring that to the proper party (I guess because of the mechanics of the encounter?)
Squishy Feb 20th 2008 11:18AM
It's so nice to finally meet a perfect person - like you. I'm so very happy for you. That you have the ability to discern when someone is dishonest. That you know immediately and completely that someone is trustworthy. That no one can lie and be dishonest and pretend to be trustworthy during the vetting process, then turn into a douche bag in the raid.
Congratulations on being an infallible human lie detector.
The rest of us, being mere mortals that bow before your awesomeness, will continue to use ML. Whether it's due to trust, new young guild members, DKP systems, ninjas, or any other reason.
Cynra Feb 20th 2008 11:26AM
Master looting exists for reasons other than because you want to avoid ninja looting or because you don't trust your teammates. In my experience, there are three other reasons to advocate the use of Master Looter over any other form.
One, it grants opportunity for discussion of loot. If items are linked one by one, people can take the moment to discuss what has dropped, who would benefit most, and potentially who will get what. If three items come up in an open-roll loot system that can be used by a single person, that person could potentially roll need on all three and win more than one, which may or may not be fair to the remainder of the people who wanted items as well. In general, many raids have a policy (written or enforced by loot systems like DKP) that ensure that people don't win multiple pieces of loot before other people. This isn't an issue if everyone passes.
Two, it makes a loot system easier to manage. Many raids use loot systems such as DKP, Zero-Sum DKP, or Suicide Kings to determine who is the next person to receive loot in a raid. Many of these systems take into account the previous attendance (and sometimes performance, if you consider deductions of DKP) of raid members. Master Looter gives the person handling the loot the opportunity to check the current standings of all raid members and fairly hand out that loot. In an open-roll system, this information probably isn't readily at hand and it's just adverse to tell the top person to roll need while everyone else passes. If everyone is just going to pass until that winner is decided, then why put your raid members through the hassle of passing on all loot when a Master Looter could just hand it out?
The third reason is that my experience has shown that more mistakes are made in dispersing loot when using any system other than Master Looter. For example, someone could misread an item and roll need on it when, in truth, the item is something entirely different than what they wanted. I've also seen people accidently roll when they meant to pass, which often results in the wrong class/spec getting an item. And, if everyone is passing anyways in order to discuss the loot, there's always one person that accidently clicks Greed or Need and buggers up the whole process - and it's usually someone who doesn't even need the item!
I've also seen a player accidently take all of the loot when he went to get his. In this case, three items dropped from a boss and everyone passed so that we could talk and determine who would get the items (the raid leader forgot to put up Master Looter, oops!). A Shadow priest won a DPS cloak and was told to loot the body of his item. Unfortunately, he either had an add on or setting on that automatically looted all of the contents of the body without any confirmation - which included two items that he hadn't won. He wasn't a ninja looter by any definition of the term; he just buggered up.
Using Master Looter is not always an issue of trust. It's a way to avoid mistakes and also ensure that loot is fairly distributed. Most raids I have been in and the vast majority of raids I have ever heard of use Master Looter. The reason why you keep seeing L2ML is because pretty much every respectable guild runs with Master Looter, due in part to the issues mentioned above. In fact, most raiders would turn that question around and ask what kind of scrub-ass guild DOESN'T run with Master Looter?
Tychon Feb 20th 2008 11:34AM
@ Cyber
You have never progressed passed kara have you?
every guild uses masterloot for 1, someone could be in the guild for like a year but some shit goes down and they want to leave, why not leave with a bang? a big FU to the guild that you want to gquit.
cybershamus Feb 20th 2008 12:05PM
@Squishy: You're got to trust people to an extent, or you wouldn't have invited them into your guild.
@Wirehead & Cynra: some good points here, although I don't think it's possible for someone to "accidently loot all the items", since each one has it's own confirmation dialogue.
@Tychon: We're at Vashj and almost to Kael, not that it matters (does your Kara group have issues? Not following you). We've never had a single loot issue in a raid. We all pass, and use DKP to sort it out.
If we ever did have an issue with someone, whether accidental or not, it would be dealt with.
Bottom line: loot issues are extremely rare and don't warrant using master loot.
Cynra Feb 20th 2008 2:21PM
If you're going to just pass on the loot anyways, why put your guildies through the added step of having to click pass? Having Master Looter hand out the loot means that he handles the work while everyone gets ready for the next pull/fight/whatever. It seems inefficient to have twenty-five people sit there and click something (especially when all they're doing is passing in your guild), when a single person can go up and hand out the loot. Also, you're more likely to run into a mistake when twenty-five people potentially have a chance of messing up (accidently clicking need/greed) as opposed to one person assigning the loot.
I could maybe see using Master Looter if people are actually rolling need and greed when the loot pops up, but you're all passing? That just seems like tedious wasted extra effort. In this situation, it doesn't even serve a purpose, other than to say to everyone that you trust them! I had assumed that if you weren't on Master Looter, people were just rolling Need if needed, but you're passing and then referring to your DKP to determine who gets what.
And the confirmation dialog was disregarded due to an add on of some sort. I'm not quite sure what it was or how it worked, but either it automatically looted and assumed confirmation or he clicked confirmation and all of the items came to him by default. Either way, the poor guy was so upset that he spent the next hour apologizing to the entire raid; fortunately, we were on farm status, no one needed any of what he picked up, and he would have won one of the other items anyways because no one was going to purchase it; the other item was going to be a shard, I believe.
Tychon Feb 20th 2008 5:32PM
Sorry im in BT/MH and there have been an issue in the past, where someone was mad at a guild and tried to ninja loot before they xfered off the server (it happens)master loot solves this by never letting it happen. if your guild is not using a master loot system please do not cry when you get your loot taken by need rolls. If master loot was not used I do not feel sorry for anyone that gets there loot taken. also there was someone complaining about there masterlooter DCed at the end of the fight or during. this can also be solved by letting your GM+1 being lootmaster maybe an officer/raid leader having 2 lootmasters can solve your problem of having someone DC. the loot master system is in the game for this reason, don't use the tools that are given to you to use its your own fault. (In my entire experience in raiding 3yrs 99% of the raids i have been in were all master loot for all new content) kara and gruuls is all /roll (not new content)
seankreynolds Feb 20th 2008 11:57AM
Birth announcements on WOW Insider? Please , no. Likewise for weddings, divorces, and first dates, unless it really has an impact on the guild ... or am I just being cranky?
Mike Schramm Feb 20th 2008 12:37PM
Just cranky. :) If people send us stuff, I see no reason not to post it. If this starts becoming BirthWatch, then yeah, we'll cut it back. But this was something someone sent, and I thought it was a nice gesture, so we posted it.
Theserene Feb 20th 2008 12:49PM
Aye I agree. It's not really epic, more of a 'common' item since people have them all the time :p
Imbalance Mar 5th 2008 3:02AM
9 month cooldown, and extremely low chance for a mastery proc, how is that a "common" recipe?
seankreynolds Mar 5th 2008 11:38AM
Well, you don't need to pay a trainer for it, and any class and race can do it, so you could line up as many alts as you want and keep cranking them out despite the long cooldown. And if you use a level 18 toon for it you're not violating the EULA.
I mean, you could have 10 on the same server. Sounds about as common as a Linen Bag....
Tharamis Feb 20th 2008 12:03PM
Sweet, thanks for the shout out to our humble blog. Basically we got tired of our forums being filled with recruitment posts followed by pages of /bump only to be interrupted by the occasional drama thread. WR forums are now a sanctuary for many a WoW-addicts during work.
Tony Vila Feb 20th 2008 12:14PM
A guild I was in long ago always used ML until our first Rag kill. When the ML bugged, and we couldn't get any loot at all.
Hopefully things are less buggy now, but still: the chance of ML bugging for some reason seems higher than the chance of someone ninjaing.
Rudi Feb 20th 2008 12:47PM
We Master Loot because it's easier to have one person picking up all the crap during trash and it's easier for our DKP tracking.