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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsYet another Alterac Valley change in patch 2.4
by Alex Ziebart 
Feb 20th 2008 at 4:00PM
Although this change is not quite like the others! It turns out that in patch 2.4, you will be able to join Alterac Valley as a group! What I can't tell you is whether or not you can join as a raid. Sorry!Personally, I think this is a good change, even if you can only join as a group and not a raid. Especially if you can only join as a group, actually. Joining as a group will let you reliably play with your friends(without the use of tricksy mods) but won't totally throw off Alterac Valley by flooding it with 40-man premades. You can queue for every other battleground as a raid, though, so Alterac Valley will likely be the same. I look forward to this hitting the live servers, I've missed the days of getting into the more 'epic' battleground with a group of my friends, even if we lost due to complete nubbery. Sure, you could still sort of do it with the aforementioned mods, but it wasn't very reliable and unless I'm mistaken, it was slightly against the TOS.
I'm unsure how this will change queue times. Queueing as a 5-man probably won't change much for you from what queue times are right now, but I imagine a 40-man team will be standing around Shattrath for quite a bit longer. I would go try it myself, but I unfortunately do not have 40 friends on the PTR. So lonely.
Filed under: Patches, News items, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Pie Pants Feb 20th 2008 5:24PM
I like the sound of joining as a group, but not as a raid. I've often joined AV with 3 or 4 of my guildies, but that requires either using a slightly questionable mod, or having someone count down on vent while we all click Join Queue at the same time. We usually did the latter and it worked. This just makes it easier though.
WP Feb 20th 2008 5:27PM
oh, i dont think i like that. i have a bad feeling that this will lead to alot of premades that will just wipe the floor with the PUGs and it will probably lead to more crying and complaining about 'how unbalanced or unfair the BG is.
Saint Feb 20th 2008 5:55PM
Let me start by stating some of the results of my experience using a mod to raid-queue AV post-2.3. At the very least this should help clarify things for discussion purposes.
1. If you raid queue AV properly you can reasonably expect a minimum of 30 people to get in. In my experience the average was around 35. Add the fact that you can easily convince newer players to /afk out by mistake and you have 37-38 of your own people in the correct AV.
2. If you have a group of people who are in mostly pvp gear and have a decent handle on their class and have a mic/listen on vent you can expect two things:
a. You should win in 18-24 minutes after perfecting your strats.
b. You should earn between 850 and 1000 honor per AV. Expect this number to peak for most groups around 1000 when diminishing returns are removed in 2.4.
3. I can state anything for certain in regards to queue times. However, I know a number of WoW players on different server/battle groups and all of them have one side (usually alliance) which is "boycotting" AV. This means that one side has short times and the other long. A raid-queue option should, ideally, decrease queue times for the side which is not boycotting.
Now for my opinion. I think raid queues are a good thing to bring back. It opens a new venue in which strategy must be used to gain the max benefit. This is especially nice for those of us who don't or rarely PVE. However, it will most likely make honor less obtainable for casual gamers and more easily obtainable for the hardcore crowd. Regardless, it is incentive to join a larger guild which, in the end, influences players to continue playing WoW because of the community ties. This tells me that it is actually in blizzard's best interest to do so.
Ircasha Feb 20th 2008 6:14PM
AV was the last refuge of the casual, solo PvP player to avoid having to deal with a premade group in a battleground.
In most of the other battlegrounds, it is difficult to avoid running up against a premade in (what seems to be) the majority of your matches. Especially in WSG. Regardless of what you might think, getting rolled by a premade is not very fun. It will not convince most players to band together and form their own premades. It will convince them not to play the BG anymore. Queue times will get worse, not better. Many of the players who pvp do so as a means of gear progression outside of raiding. Now you're telling them that to be successful they have to . . . raid.
If you were a bit more honest with yourself, you would simply say that you like the idea of joining as a raid because it will more than likely increase your honor/hour ratio. Arguing that this change is good for the average player and Blizz is like arguing that tricking someone to /afk out of a BG is good for the BG because you're just getting rid of the 'noobz', when in fact it is just selfish behavior.
infection Feb 21st 2008 9:08AM
It's true, in no way will this make casuals play av more. This will only make que times longer. Once you've been rolled by a premade 2 or 3 times and you see you aren't getting in pug bg's that you could win..... you.... stop..... playing.
Even with wsg and ab, when me and my 3 or 4 friends que as a group, we get put in a full premade vs. Who will have time to organize a 40 man av? That takes a serious effort. With the shadowburn group having 1 hour+ que times for the horde, I assume no alliance wants to play a pug. So we will be seeing nothing but alliance that havent been able to play av for a long time that want to start again. They will actually be willing to put big groups together for av. I know my server will not.
I played a pug horde av last night. We rolled alliance and they got ZERO towers or gy's. The very next av we played a premade alliance group that almost completely rolled us besides iw and sh towers. Premade against pug will be out of control. I would hope if they do implement this change that the group HAS to be FORCED to only find another GROUP. Because they have had a pitiful system so far on that working.
I would assume you pve like the rest of the 90% here on this blog that do nothing but complain about arena's and how they are ruining their pve experience.
Rich Feb 20th 2008 6:32PM
Its not like AV never had the join as a group thing, didn't they pull it out of the game around the Naxx patch?
Khanmora Feb 20th 2008 10:26PM
They pulled it b/c of an exploit in which lower level characters were getting in.
theRaptor Feb 20th 2008 8:35PM
Why can't they just give honour grinders x amount of honour for standing around in shatt for a few hours, and give everyone else fun BG's?
PM's make as much sense game wise as MC dropping T5.
Good_Idea Feb 21st 2008 2:09AM
I like this! Removes having to do 1.2.3 or use addons to Q together.
Small 5-man groups are fun in AV as well, you can run at least somewhat coordinated.
Bloodthorn Feb 21st 2008 8:39AM
I would love to be able to team up with a few mates/guildies, knowing that there was a healer and cc/dps to protect him at all times, would make this a lot more enjoyable for me =)
Jeccius Feb 21st 2008 5:16AM
Yey, nice for Blizzard to make the "StinkyQ" mod defunct :) Been using that with the Guild recently and that's helped us connect to the right match ok, but normally in seperate groups. Just as well we were using TeamSpeak to back us up :)
guck Feb 21st 2008 6:10AM
The problem in bg's from my pov is the premades. I don't want to waste time forming a group and i don't want to waste my time loosing against a premade. Let players opt out of entering any premade bg. it can be a box to check on the interface screen. since there are way more alli players than horde premades VS. pugs will always favor alli. I'm sick of premades. if allis wan't to make premades all day because they can't win a fair fight then let them, just give me the choice to opt out before i get stuck in the bg.
Smoke1400 Feb 21st 2008 1:21PM
They should only allow groups to join and not raids. When I join a BG and its against a premade, most people on my team leave. Even though a PUG can beat a premade.
The other problem I have is, it will be another BG in which I wont be able to join a premade. I am a prot warrior and I have some season 1 gear. But I have been removed from premades when they looked at my spec. I know AV is a little different.
I like doing BGs for fun and these premades are killing the fun.
infection Feb 21st 2008 9:13AM
My other main concern is the way honor is given now.
So now you get stuck in a premade group and get completely rolled, with the honor changed to where you HAVE to take something to get honor, this will furthermore make people quit que'ing for av.
No wonder alliance on shadowburn don't play av, we rolled them and they get no honor. I wouldn't play either if it was like that. And with premade av's now, it will completely screw the pugs out there.
They need to bring back some form of easy honor that can be obtained during av, like the generals and stuff, or find SOMETHING that doesn't take 4 mintues until you get honor for it.
Just adding "no dimishing returns" will not fix anything. The map is huge. I don't want to be stuck having to fight in a big blogged group just to get some honor now.
Roboticus Feb 21st 2008 10:30AM
Hearing both sides of this essentially casual vs hardcore argument, I think Blizzard should create a system that caters to each separately.
First, make a dual queue system where if you join as a pug, you'll only be matched with other pugs. BUT, if you join as a group, you enter a rated AV match and will only play against other premade groups. Each player will carry a personal rating reflecting their own win/loss ratio (therefore, no teams are required). Both systems would receive honor as normal, but at the end of the week, those with a personal rating would receive a chunk of bonus honor relative to their rating.
If this bonus honor was substantial enough, it would take away the incentive for premades to want to play against Pug groups, and at the same time, it would make the game much more friendly for the casual solo pvp'er.
Good_Idea Feb 21st 2008 4:59PM
Since when are 5 people (out of 40) a "premade"? Drama drama.
Wake up people, if they are determined enough, raids can do premades currently. I was doing this back pre-BC, with no addons and only raid chat and vent.
Will this make people try to premake entire raids for AV? For my battlegroup I don't think so. I think it will make small 5 man groups use more tactics though, which can be highly effective on both O and D. Which will make things more fun imo.
Mihn Feb 22nd 2008 5:08AM
And once again, the Alliance, with sand in thier hoo-hahs, get what they want.
Joining as a group ruined PvP, IMO. Teamwork is a social skill that many Alliance cant seem to master, so they want things changed so they can group with people they know. Instead of being asked to work things out with total strangers. Sucks that you cant step outside your comfort zone long enough to work with a stranger, eh Alliance?
Felwrathe Feb 22nd 2008 3:44PM
I don't have 40 friends anywhere. /cry
Premades can suck it.