The return of stamina to tier 6
by Alex Ziebart 
Feb 24th 2008 at 2:00PM
A few days ago, Eliah mentioned a tragic thing in his list of Undocumented Changes in a recent PTR push: The Stamina disappeared from the new Tier 6 pieces!There was a pretty big outcry about this, and understandably so. The Burning Crusade has made Stamina a very important stat in all areas of gameplay from PvE to PvP. You need to be able to take blows in the arenas, and almost every raid encounter has multiple sources of random damage to the raid. Stamina is a big deal, which brings us to the good news.
The Stamina has returned to the T6! Not in the amounts it had previously(unfortunately) but still a decent amount. While not ideal, it has enough Stamina that classes can actually wear these set pieces now. Previously, with no Stamina on this armor, most classes were completely unable to wear them in a raid. I know that I, personally, already have to wear PvP gear for a number of encounters because my raiding gear simply doesn't have enough Stamina on it for Black Temple and Mount Hyjal. New tier pieces with no Stamina at all would be something I could not even consider using, no matter how good the rest of the stats may be. Being one-shotted by environmental damage makes that awesome damage and mana regen a little useless.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Dach Feb 24th 2008 2:46PM
You can thank PvPers crying that raiders can use certain pieces of T6 in arenas and be decent for Stamina getting nerfed. Personally, I think if you put in the time, money and effort to get T6 you ought to at least be able to step outside of an instance in the gear you've earned without fear of getting rolled by some idiot in S3 gear that he paid someone to help him get.
matt Feb 25th 2008 12:10AM
This is exactly where they screwed up in this expansion. PVP gear doesnt work for PVE, and vice versa. Instead of the option of "either or" you are now "completely screwed" without both.
I don't know if this could have been seen in advance but is most definitely the scenario at this point this expansion. At least pre-BC it was a wonderful joy that the gear you get would help you everywhere, period.
infection Feb 25th 2008 11:07AM
If you are getting "rolled" by some "idiot" that has a little more stamina than you, you might want to rethink pvp'ing and quit qq'ing.
jaxson_bateman Feb 24th 2008 2:52PM
Yeah, they need stamina on just about every piece of raiding gear... sure, it may not add directly to healing or dps, but in the end, if you're dead you aren't doing ANY healing or ANY damage.
There are plenty of fights that favour high stamina - in fact, as soon as you walk in BT you're faced with a stamina fight. I myself tend to swap in a few pieces of PvP gear, and well I tend to boost myself up to 12k just so I don't have to worry about dying. =P But in any cases, yeah, stamina = necessary stat for raiding. =)
Hell, even back when you're doing fights like Shade of Aran you need some decent stam! =P
Druid dude Feb 24th 2008 3:03PM
Sadly, these types of itemization issues seem to be driven by concerns about Arenas these days.
TotalBiscuit Feb 24th 2008 3:10PM
Indeed, therein lies the problem.
They need to be kept seperate. Arenas have messed with raiding enough already and if arena players seriously think that raiding is messing with arena-play, then even more reason to keep the two apart, by strong means if necessary. (and by strong I'm talking about over-the-top measures like disallowing any raid-drop gear from entering an arena alltogether and nerfing arena gear into the floor so it's not remotely useful in raids).
If that's what it takes, no matter how ridiculous it may be.
TotalBiscuit Feb 24th 2008 2:57PM
What a surprise, PvPers messing with balance again. Why is it that the group with the biggest entitlement-complex in WoW gets to have such a say in things they know nothing about?
Here's a tip for arena-nubs that haven't stepped foot in challenging raid dungeons. Raiders need stamina, shit loads of it. The vast majority T6 raid encounters involve the entire raid taking big hits that are largely unavoidable. This isn't your Daddy's Molten Core anymore.
What they don't need, is resilience, and shockingly enough, we don't have it! You think T6 is effective arena gear? You're out of your minds.
I'm sick to high heaven of the sabotage that Arena-play is causing to the well-recognized meat of the game, that being instances and raiding. I have no problem with arenas per say, they've fine if you want to do that kind of thing, but keep your meddling, grubby hands out of my raid-game, and quit acting like raiders are doing well in arenas because they have this uber-amazing gear from BT/Hyjal (despite the fact that it's got zero resilience, next to noPvP-centric stats on it and is basically worthless as a result) and not because they're simply more experienced and play better than you do.
kol Feb 24th 2008 3:23PM
so you really dont think wearing for season 3 and still having the dps and amazing talent-like set bonuses of tier 6 overkill and unbalanced? yeah wow, us pvpers sure dont know much about stats and how the game works.
and about how raiders are working harder and pvper can pay for their gear? im sorry your guild must suck but theres alooooot of people on many servers getting tier 6 fast and easy, i know people that have full tier 6 on their main and on 2 alts. and im sure they can take anyone that pays cash to their BT farming runs.
TotalBiscuit Feb 24th 2008 3:36PM
You don't have a clue do you? The statistics are against you. You know 'plenty' of people? Good for you! Except your personal experiences mean jack-shit when faced with actual facts.
Let's review.
Source is WoWJutsu, let's do some mathcraft.
2523775 - Number of players with at least 1 piece of raid gear. That equates to roughly 25% of the WoW population.
4.91% - Number of those players that have killed Mother Shahraz, which is required to acquire 4 piece T6.
1.2275% - The percentage of players total, considering a population of 10,000,000, who have killed Mother Shahraz.
98.7725% - The percentage of players total, considering a population of 10,000,000 who have not killed Mother Shahraz.
122750 - The number of players total, considering a population of 10,000,000 who have killed Mother Shahraz and therefore have access to 4 piece T6.
2 - The number of T6 tokens that drop from each boss as of 2.3
3- The number of T6 tokens that drop from each boss as of 2.4
Bullshit - This is not a number, but it sums up your argument pretty well in the face of these facts.
Ergo, even assuming absolutely ideal circumstances (ie. that everyone up to that point that has access to it, actually has 4 piece T6, which they absolutely do not), your argument is absolutely, utterly, wrong.
TB.
TotalBiscuit Feb 24th 2008 3:50PM
Just a quick addendum. The above numbers are inaccurate on the basis that WoWJutsu only counts EU and US players which supposedly make up roughly 5 million (half) of the total WoW population. So you can probably double my kill numbers, but I would imagine my percentages are still accurate, assuming Asia has roughly the same amount of raiders and progress as we do.
jaxson_bateman Feb 24th 2008 3:08PM
Actually, further to the above posters, it's not just stamina that is being gimped in PvE thanks to Arena concerns. A lot of the nerfs that are coming in 2.4 (locks, for example) while helping balance in Arena are going to upset the balance in PvE.
For example, the Life Tap change will help balance arena. However, in a PvE environment, it means that in a lot of cases a lock is going to take more damage for less mana. Not something that's nice to experience when you've got raid bosses that deal out plenty of AoE damage and you need all the health you can get.
Tereth Feb 24th 2008 3:23PM
I thought this change was absolutely ridiculous. Now if a lock wants to be in a raid and not die from environment damage all the time, then they will have to get DP, pigeon-holing us into a spec that has less PvE Raid DPS as a result. Awesome.
Bearskunk Feb 24th 2008 3:33PM
I just wonder where warlocks are currently overrepresented in arenas?
kol Feb 24th 2008 5:18PM
so removing the stamina will piss off 2% of the people
unfair itemization in pvp will piss off 98% of the people
matt Feb 24th 2008 5:51PM
What?
Calaana Feb 24th 2008 6:33PM
Actually, that 2% is the most reliable income they have. The raider tend to hang around longer than the qq.. I mean pvpers.
That 2% is also alot higher than you give it credit for, I'm not a part of it and never will see t5, let alone t6 and this is still upsetting me.
But at least the pvpers will all go play warhammer when it comes out I guess.
jumb Feb 24th 2008 10:14PM
Can't wait to see 4/5 t6, 4/5 S3 in pvp!
springz Feb 24th 2008 7:12PM
Didnt Nihilum get totally OWNED by a pvp guild at some event where they played arena against each other??
This is because pvp is all about resilience now, making it next to impossible for endgame raiders to get far in pvp, even with a huge boost to the stamina.
TotalBiscuit Feb 25th 2008 12:45AM
Are you suggesting that players who do nothing but PvP beat players who spend most of their time raiding? INCONCEIVABLE!
Incidently Nihilum have a couple of the top arena teams in the world at this point in time.
Mask Feb 24th 2008 10:01PM
I agree, keep arena and PvE separate. Sounds good to me. No PvE gear allowed in arenas. No arena gear allowed outside of arenas. DO IT!