Officers' Quarters: Gold rush
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.Once your guild purchases all the bank vaults you need, your bank will start accumulating gold without a clear purpose for how to spend it. As the donations and requests from members roll in, it's up to us as officers to decide. The author of this week's e-mail is concerned about the way his fellow officers are using the gold.
I recently became a low-ranking officer in a guild after demonstrating utility in knowledge, generosity, and helpfulness to my guildmates. When this occurred I decided to take a proactive approach to the guild and began lobbying for a new guild tab to open up to the lower ranking members. Everyone seemed supportive of this until I started digging into the financials. It seems as if the current state of the guild is members deposit, and the main officers withdraw it fairly quickly. For example in the last week or so 11 members (including myself) deposited a total of about 37 Gold while 4 officers withdrew over 50 Gold.
I approached an officer about this and she claimed that whenever an officer withdraws a large amount, it's to help a guild member with various things such as new gear or skills. While these seems plausible, for some reason it seems fishy to me. Do most guilds operate this way, and thus I'm being paranoid, or could there be a genuine cause for concern here. Is there any way to get to the bottom if this? I feel bad as I've withheld depositing my normal amount in the past few days because I'm not sure if I'm little more than a personal financier for the guild officers' twink fund.
Thank you for your help,
Anonymous WoW Player
For your average guild member, donating gold to a guild bank is sort of like paying taxes. Whether your guild asks you to contribute a certain amount or you do it voluntarily, you do it in good faith that the officers won't use the cash to line their pockets. You expect that cash to be used for goods and services that will help the guild and -- whether directly or indirectly -- help you.
What those goods and services are depends entirely on the type of guild you're in. If you're in a twink guild and your success depends on how twinked everyone else's twinks are, then spending that cash to help someone out with an expensive enchant seems like a reasonable thing to do.
If you're in a raiding guild, buying consumables and resist gear, paying repair bills, and so on might be perfectly acceptable uses.
For a guild that does some PvP, some casual PvE, and some raiding, the waters get a little murkier. If not everyone raids, is it fair to use that money for post-raid armor repairs? If not everyone PvPs, is it fair to use that money to set up an arena team? This is the category my guild falls under, and so far I haven't used the bank gold for squat outside of buying new vaults. We're thinking about using it to help tanks get resist sets for upcoming encounters we'll be facing, but it's something I'll have to mull over, and I may even ask the guild to vote on the issue.
For the most part, our policy has been to fend for yourself when it comes to the incidental costs of gearing up your toons, buying skills, obtaining recipes, repairing, etc. Of course we all help each other with such things, but that's a "private citizen" helping another citizen, not the "government" giving a handout, which is what using the bank gold amounts to. I still believe in this policy. We have too many members for the bank to fund everybody.
However, we do have this growing pile of gold and we're starting to get requests for it. Recently someone asked if they could use the gold to buy the Solid Star of Elune design. This is an incredibly important gem cut for both PvE and PvP. If we didn't already have two people in the guild who could cut it, I would have given out the gold for that purchase. That's a good example of an item that can help everyone in the guild.
As for the e-mail above, the officers say they are using the money for new gear and skills. That seems okay, but several questions spring to mind. Is the gold available to everyone to use for such things? Is there a limit to the amount that can be spent? Is it for main characters only or alts, too? Why is no official record kept of who's getting what gold for what purpose? Are people honestly having trouble paying for new skills on their own?
So yes, I agree that the whole thing is "fishy," as you say. Bank gold is "public funding" and as such the "public" has a right to know exactly what it's being spent on. As a new officer, I wouldn't tell them to stop doing what they're doing. I'd just ask for more information about it. Volunteer to be the official bank record keeper if you like. It's a system that's ripe for abuse, so if the gold is being spent that frequently I don't think it's too much to ask for a list of who's getting what amount and for what purpose. I may be mistaken, but I don't think most guilds throw their bank money around so casually like that.
For most of us, as our guild's fortunes grow, so will the number of requests to spend that gold total sitting tantalizingly at the bottom of every vault window. Do your guild a favor and spend it wisely. Remember that the gold belongs to every member who contributes, not just those with the highest rank.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott.andrews@weblogsinc.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Filed under: Guilds, Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Zuqual Feb 25th 2008 1:49PM
It's a trust issue. If you can't trust the people in charge to be judicious with guild funds, then you should reconsider whether you want to be in that guild. But, if your guild doesnt have a stated policy on how it handles its bank, that could feed into discontent.
In my guild we have two general tabs that anyone can withdraw from. A raiding supplies tab that only raiders can withdraw from. And a guild storage tab, a resist tab, and a for sale tab where we store resist gear, valuable hard to replace mats, and items to be sold to raise funds that only officers can withdraw from. Additionally, only the guild leader can withdraw gold from the bank. Limiting the number of people with that kind of access can be a good idea in case someone's account gets hacked.
All requests for funds or items from officer only tabs are made through a public forum on our website. That way everything is out in the open.
Saint Feb 25th 2008 2:02PM
I feel that our guild has a pretty good system going. Raiding is our guild's priority. However, there are a number of members such as myself that don't raid. Despite this, it is clear to me that if I donate gold it will be used to further the guild's progression and I am fine with that. Only one person has access to our guild bank. We already own all the tabs so gold is used for two things: consumables and shadow resist gear. The class leaders put in request for mats or gold for consumables that they then pass out before the raid starts and our "treasurer" manages the storage and purchasing of mats for SR gear (for BT.) Everything else is expected to be financed by the members unless they decide to donate mats which are needed for the SR gear which is then handed out on a person by person basis.
Richard Feb 25th 2008 2:08PM
"Volunteer to be the official bank record keeper if you like."
Here's the thing: if something fishy IS going on, that's a first-class ticket to gkick-ville.
To the letter-writer: keep your nose down. For quite a while. If they're leeching off the membership, there really isn't anything you can do about it.
rick gregory Feb 25th 2008 2:16PM
So let me ask a question... unless the guild has a stated policy that gold will be used for X and Y (repairs, etc)... Why have any significant gold in the bank AT ALL?
Now I can see collecting gold donations when you're still buying tabs. Raid repairs/consumables? Buy your own - I do.
I can see having 1-2000 gold in case people want to buy patterns, etc that are rare, but beyond that it seems all of the uses for gold are things that players should be expected to pay for themselves. I mean.. training?? come on...
Good_Idea Feb 25th 2008 2:48PM
Donating gold to the guild bank is bullshit. I've been in many guilds, both casual and some of the the top guilds on my server and have never had to do so.
For what purpose? Individual members have to have enough gold to cover repair bills and in the past, supply their own resistance gear. Why do the guild leaders need money, moreso than everyone else?
(Raiding) guild banks often have tonnes of money from selling blues, patterns, and other items that aren't needed by the raid.
Bottom line is that the guild bank is there to help members, not the other way around. It's there to make trading items between members easier. It's not there to supply officers with a weekly donation of gold.
Imo, it's just a scam.
drjonesac2 Feb 25th 2008 3:57PM
Our tiny leveling guild has one bank tab. This was purchased after much debate around whether a guild bank was going to be the source of drama or not. So this is the system we set up:
If you put an item in, don't expect it to be there for you later. Anyone can take any item from the bank (limit 10). The idea is that you're putting the item in there because you don't need it and someone else might.
On gold, the entire guild gets to vote on gold requests. Someone submits a request for funds to an officer and the entire guild gets to vote on whether they should be allowed to make the withdrawal. This bit of bureaucracy is in place to keep people from making stupid gold requests.
It's worked well for us so far.
nerdyshinobi Feb 25th 2008 9:21PM
Is there a way to extend the guild bank logs beyond just a few hours? Our GM complains that he can only see what goes on for a portion of the day, so the guildies on the take just wait until he's not on a few hours, then take what they can. Can the full log be pulled?
Protwalker Feb 26th 2008 6:17AM
You could check the logs on the armory.....
Theserene Feb 25th 2008 4:37PM
When you have people asking to draw out 400G or excess to pay for their flying mount it gets real fun.
Sky_Paladin Feb 25th 2008 5:41PM
I regularly have an over-abundance of rep items, various crafting mats/crafted items, or have an ability to make useful temporary upgrades (eg sharpening stones), as well as oodles of semi-decent greens that drop.
While I could sell these items, I think it's much more beneficial to put them in to the guild bank.
The things that hold back an individual from being a contributing member in the guild:
1) Mount expenses. For your first toon, getting the 100g/400g/1000g/5000g for your riding skills is a long hard slog.
2) Keyed for instances
3) Equipment
4) Levels
Anything that you can do to help the members of your guild go from beginners through to reliable, competent and supportive members of your guild is a good thing.
However you can't invest too much money/time in to a new member to the detriment of the rest of the guild. This is where some kind of policy eg you must be in the guild for a month before you can make any withdrawal; you must be prepared to front 50% of the riding training fee and pay back that 50% before getting another loan, etc etc whatever.
Basically if your member is honest and reliable, having the guild support them to geared up and available to help is a no-brainer. Being sure that this member is honest and reliable, and not going to ninja everything given the chance, is the real issue.
Since this can never be foolproof, your alternative is to stop stressing about what your superior officers may or may not be doing and instead focus on your responsibility. If you start looking for shadows, shadows is all you will see.
The guild bank is for you to donate items to that you do not need. If you need the money, don't put the item in - things you put in there are surrendered to the officers to dispense as they see fit; you no longer have ownership over it. If you feel some expectation or obligation of return of investment for things you put in, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
Lahlan Feb 26th 2008 9:27AM
My guild uses the first tab as a donations in, where everyone can see and put stuff into but only the guild leader can move them to the other three tabs. The second and third tabs are withdraw only with limits set based on rank - anywhere from two to three stacks per day to up to eight for the highest ranked officers. The fourth tab is request only, purples and blues as well as enchanting and gem crafting materials with only two people with full access. Money is limited to repair only on non-officers with officers having up to 10/20g withdraw limits.
My guild also has a 10g per 70 player (not per 70 character) weekly tithe, to contribute to the common fund (used primarily to fund raiding efforts) which is easily reached with a single daily quest done once a week. The belief behind the is, if you can't contribute 10g once a week then you're probably not contributing much to the guild in the first place.
Corwyn Feb 26th 2008 10:15AM
I love reading about the hierarchical totalitarian states people set up for their guilds.
My guild has our bank tabs (and gold) fully open to all members. New characters are encouraged to take a few gold to get started. Everybody is encouraged to take whatever they need. Crafters have a much easier time because materials are often readily available. Our biggest trouble is running out of space. You can tell the officers in the guild because they are the ones saying 'no really, take it!'. Gold is increasing.
Thank You Kindly.
arcady0 Mar 3rd 2008 3:06PM
I set permissions in my guild to allow all but recruits and alts to withdraw varying amounts of items and gold. Recruits and alts can still withdraw for repairs. I set the gold amounts with an eye to how much I assumed people of differing ranks were donating. None of the numbers are high enough that anyone could loot out the entire vault before being noticed, but they are all high enough to be useful. That said, my problem as a guild leader has not been looting, it has been that people use the vault to deposit their trash - items they can't auction but that are too 'valuable' to vendor. All those Outlands greens for example. We also end up with amazing supply of potions everytime anyone changes profession into alchemy. All the minor heals end up in the vault. At least one or two times a week I have to log in and grab up a huge section of the vault and carry it off to a vendor, auction house, or enchanter to get it translated into coins for deposit back into the bank.
I -try- to encourage members to take items for use. Almost begging the JC's to take gems and cut them, or for the enchanters to d/e the old items, and I have some success, but there is still a lot of dust in parts of the attic.
My guild members do make heavy use of the bank for repairs, but they also donate back quite often - and even with everyone using it to repair, we seem to double the funds in there every week.
Adam W Mar 25th 2008 8:38AM
I thought I would post a follow up to this, though it will be doubtful anyone sees this. I was the Anonymous WoW player who wrote in. First let me address one point: the amount. Some comments indicate that what I was complaining about was small potatoes and not worth the gripe that I made. Being about 30 levels ahead of where I was when I sent this in, I completely understand what you mean. However, at the time we were a VERY low level guild. I was one of the highest level players, and was only a 40. The GM, his wife and a few others were all right around that level. So while I agree, that now I could sneeze and make that sort of money in Outland, at the time, it was a LOT to all parties involved.
An update on the current situation shows that my fears were founded. I left the guild shortly after I wrote this in, partially spurred by my concerns, and partially because I had an idea of what guild I would have loved to join, and found it accidentally not too long after. I did stay close to a few non-officer members of the guild and spoke with them often. I never spoke ill of the guild officers, in case my fears were unfounded. All I did was post a message (way before I left) showing the money in vs. money out so that all could see the facts (and that's all I posted; no theories or accusations as I did here). As time went on their numbers dwindled and the members I spoke to decided enough was enough. They too had enough with the leadership and formed their own guild. One one hand I am glad I saw the writing on the wall before it was too late, but on the other I am sad to see a guild I worked hard in go the way of the dodo. In the end though I am happy with the guild I'm now in, and am wiser for the experience.
Firefist Apr 5th 2008 12:01PM
IN my old guild the guild bank just ended up as the GMs main raid repair money :(
Kav Apr 5th 2008 6:42PM
doing nothing but questing and vendoring junk on my first 70 i had enough gold at 60 for epic rider and 70 for flyer right when i dinged...
if ppl are asking for money for their mounts they are buying too much bs on the ah