Breakfast Topic: Wipeout Poll
by Amanda Dean 
Feb 26th 2008 at 8:00AM
It's amazing to me exactly how hard instances can be. Not the mobs, but the group. We've all been in ugh-PUGs before. Some players don't understand how to use their class or play nicely in an instance. That's only on regular dungeons; heroics have their own set of potential disasters. Sometimes you just have to give up.
Putting a group together for instance can be extremely difficult, and sometimes you have to take what you can get. While there are many excellent tanks out there, the shortage on my server makes for slim pickings. Folks who think that pulling aggro off the tank is an honor make up another problem. I am occasionally guilty of trying to heal and DPS at the same time. I'll admit to causing a wipe or two because of it.
I had a Steam Vaults run once where the Mage insisted on tanking and the Hunter showed up with four empty gear slots. We didn't survive the second pull. After the second try, I was out of there. I try my best to keep it together, but sometimes discretion s the better part of valor.
So what happens when the DPS are dopes, the tank tanks, and the healer is heel? How many wipes does it take you to give up on an instance?
| I'm out after the first one | |
|---|---|
| I give it two or three | |
| Four is my limit | |
| I'm in it until the end | |
| I don't wipe, I just wait |
Filed under: Polls, Analysis / Opinion, Breakfast Topics, Instances
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jaxson_bateman Feb 26th 2008 8:09AM
It all depends on how smoothly the run is going - if some people are what I'd consider to be 'undergeared' or 'badly geared', but for whatever reason the run is still pretty smooth (generally happens when I have a decent tank to match my super healing ^^) then I'd probably stay. That said, I've not had to PuG an instance for a while as I'm exalted with all the instance factions, and only do heroics with my guildies who I trust.
However, sometimes you just know you're in for some pain. One example is that about half a year ago I was doing lots of SV pugs for rep. Joined a group who were only lacking a healer, and we all head in. The warrior tank is wearing gear that looks familiar to me... and sure enough, the warrior is trying to tank in the full Khorium Plate set (for those not in the know, it's a paladin holy damage/healing set). Having a warr wearing bad gear sent me the message that he probably wasn't adept at tanking either, and sure enough, our first pull showed me he could barely hold aggro on one mob, let alone multiple enemies.
So after I managed to keep him up on the first Bog Lord (it wasn't overly hard, but he was far squishier than he should have been) I told the group that I didn't think it'd work out, and promptly left. Fortunately, the other members of the group had realised the quality of our tank and thus did not hold a grudge.
JPN Feb 26th 2008 8:24AM
I can't believe you lasted until the second pull with that hunter. I used to not do this, but lately I've been perusing everyone's gear when I pug, just to see what I might expect; it's not definite, sometimes it's an alt and they're a real pro, and someone can be purpled out and be terrible, but it gives a little more context.
Callandra Feb 26th 2008 8:29AM
Situations vary, if I'm on a class that can make a difference with realy strong play then I'll stay. (Hunter, Lock, Tanking I can pickup some slack) if I'm healing and there is just no hope, sometimes I'll leave right quick.
John Feb 26th 2008 8:51AM
What four gear slots was he missing? I hope 2 of them were shirt and tabard, but I get a feling they weren't. Seriously, how do you get to 70 with 4 empty slots?
nelfer Feb 26th 2008 10:00AM
"Seriously, how do you get to 70 with 4 empty slots?"
One word.
Ebay
pfooti Feb 26th 2008 8:54AM
It depends a lot on the rest of the run. If it's a fun group, and we all are scrubs and we know it, I'll stay in for a few extra boss attempts.
On the other hand, if nobody is marking (unless it's a pally tank, haha), or there are other "warning signs", I'll get out pretty quickly.
The important bit is being polite about it. Just say "sorry, this isn't working out" and leave. Don't lambaste them, it never pays to be rude.
Bloodthorn Feb 26th 2008 8:59AM
depends also a lot on the group and their attitude, if we wipe cos we had a runner pull another group ½second before it was shot down, well, shit happens, but if it seems like no one has a clue as how to cooperate and play their own class (warlocks dotting their seduce targets, mages AoE on sheeps, list goes on)... well, if I have all day I might try and give some general advice, and if people seem to listen and try, I am more lenient, but if I get silence or anger back, I'd rather grind BGs...
Mats Feb 26th 2008 9:10AM
It all comes down to why we wipe, not how many times it happens.
If we are doing heroic Slabs, and everything was fine untill that shadowprist in the second boss room started to oneshot the mana users, well, then I know that once we are past that stage, we will be fine again. If we wipe on simple 3 man pulls, time and time again, I'm out of there on the third wipe.
Milktub Feb 26th 2008 9:11AM
I can't answer for all circumstances. I'll leave after a single wipe if it's because someone does a truly obscene violation of kill order or uses an ability totally out of line for the situation. But then if we've gone all the way to a difficult boss without a wipe, I'm in it to win it – I was on recent H Mech run and after a smooth a silk run to Panthelon, we wiped about 5 times in a row. Not because we didn't know the fight or people weren't doing their jobs. No, it was because the stupid elf boss decided that for our group he was going to use Mind Control repeatedly ... on our healer.
alrdye Feb 26th 2008 9:19AM
Depends entirely on the group. If its just friends goofing off, as in our heroic SH run yesterday where we wiped enough to put me completely red when we shouldn't have wiped at all, I'll stay till we are done cause everyone is just having fun. If its a pug, I'll stay in as long as I think people are learning from their experience and can get past it in a reasonable amount of time. But if its obvious they are under geared or just not learning or don't care to try to learn, I'm gone.
Nolls74 Feb 26th 2008 9:47AM
Not to sound like a broken record, but like everyone else has said; its all about the cause of the wipe. Having a holy paladin, I usually am in the back healing and bodyguarding the squishies. I was in one group where we went all the way up to the last room before the boss, and the two rogues decided they could tank their own mobs, so we had 3 ppl taking aggro who i had to try to heal, which led to myself taking aggro. After a bubble, the mage died, then the rogues, then the tank, then me. Normally I would have left after that one wipe, but since we were so close to the end, I felt pot committed. There's nothing worse than being at the end, only to have to turn around and call it quits.
salguod Feb 26th 2008 11:07AM
It all depends,last night i went into stocks with my 27 shammy and watched in horror as a 32 mage pulled a room at the same time as a 30 hunter pulled a room,i will not pug with my 70 warrior tank but with all my alts the level of communication within the group makes my decision for me.
Aelfinn Feb 26th 2008 10:26AM
The worst experience I have has so far was in blood furnace. My main is a rogue, so I typically stealth out and scout ahead a little to see where patrols are and what not. In one PUG I was running for some reason my tank continuously decided to follow me around, of course him not being stealthed he kept pulling agro before anybody was ready to proceed.
We went so far as to tell him, "Wait here till we tell you to pull" then he would follow me again and pull aggro the very next time. Needless to say several of us bailed out in short order.
math Feb 26th 2008 10:29AM
As a priest I use to just "stick it out", but as I have geared up and each wipe amounts to 5g in repair I'm checking gear at the door. On my mage I tend to iceblock when things are going downhill and hit the ivis button(saves on repairs). So I guess it really comes down to how much gold I wanna spend to get a couple of badges. But like other people have said... It's about why we wiped... missed ice traps, sheeps gettin hit, sheeps not gettin resheeped, tank not holding aggro, tank lagging, range dps too close to AOE's, nobody potting or using bandaids when I can't get a heal on them ...etc
Elzooi Feb 26th 2008 10:32AM
Funy thing everyone always moans about pugs. I sometimes have more trouble with guildmates that think multishotting a pull before I even hit them in melee or charching a group I'm pulling behind a corner. Still it are guild groups so I can't realy walk away from them no matter how many wipes. Looking at those things the last groups I pugged were easier for me to work with.
Jack Spicer Feb 26th 2008 10:36AM
I agree with some of the previous posters; its not about the number of times we wipe, but rather why we wipe. A difficult boss fight or bad luck with a pat/fear/runner typically doesn't phase me when I'm in a PuG. However, wiping multiple times on a group of mobs that should be nothing but easy and I'm out.
Oh, another peeve, wiping because the leader refuses to mark targets and so any all all CC becomes pointless, another good reason to drop a group.
totalitaridan Feb 26th 2008 10:49AM
I usually hang out longer than is good for me. I've been the cause of a few wipes in my time as well see: http://garthpong.wordpress.com
Angus Feb 26th 2008 10:52AM
Gear checks won't help thanks to the wonders of PVP.
Full S1 geared hunter. Very nice for AP, crit, and almost everything was a PVP item. GO into a group with him.
He does not know what feign death is and uses his S1 axes in melee all the time.
Meanwhile I regularly group for heroics with a tank in a large amount of Blues, some greens and no issues holding aggro when I outgear him by a large margin. He's even on dialup.
We sometimes wipe due to weird issues like a bad add or just being off, but we never worry and we usually bounce back to destroy the instance. I owe that group 2 pieces of badge loot. :)
You can't judge a character by their gear. Sometimes the best ones are just trying to get the gear to show it.
Milktub Feb 26th 2008 11:25AM
I'm always hesitant about PuGging with PvP geared peeps. The other night I got into a late-night H Ramps run, since I'm a Primal Nether addict.
We'd barely gotten started, up to the pull right before the beastmaster pull (the one with the ravager surrounded by 3 casters). I know that pull. I know to do a long LOS to prevent aggroing the beastmaster or the guy with the dogs. Anyway, one dps had to drop out, so we hang around waiting for this hunter who was going to come in. Full PvP gear. I explain the positioning, how I didn't want anyone attacking, shooting, DoTting or sheeping anything until it got around the corner. Everyone says ready ... I pull ... me and three groupmates run around the corner and start doing our thing. Meanwhile, PvP hunter is around the corner getting slaughtered. He dies. Then complains about how we all suck for not helping him out or giving him heals. Then quits.
PvP skillz ... great for PvP, not so much for PvE.
Gimmlette Feb 26th 2008 11:17AM
My philosophy is that I learn more from a bad instance than from something that goes smooth as silk. So, generally, I'll stick to the end.
Tank can't hold aggro? Misdirect. Feign Death if they come my way. Lower level shots.
Squishy pulling aggro at alarming rates? Traps, traps and more traps. Distracting shot to get the mob off the squishy and popsicle 'em. I know it's technically "against the instance rules", but I'll pop Growl on to hold a mob attacking my squishy until we can get it down.
There are things you can do, if you know your class, to help a bad group limp along. I find it a challenge to try at least because I have had that "aha" moment which teaches me an ability that I didn't quite get.
But I'm out if someone insults another's abilities, questions or argues with the instance leader, absolutely refuses to follow directions. There is just no excuse for rude behavior. I don't care how bad someone in a group is, there are all sorts of ways to say, "This sucks AND blows and I'm outta here noobs" without resorting to those words.