Encrypted Text: Raiding as a Rogue, Part I

Every Wednesday, Elizabeth Wachowski or Chris Jahosky write Encrypted Text, a look into the shadowy world of rogues.
This week on Encrypted Text is the first part in a small mini-series of articles that should serve as a guide for any up and coming rogues looking to start raiding. I will cover a few of the more raid-friendly specs, talk about their strengths and weaknesses, the hit and expertise caps, and the type of gear you should be looking for.
Combat vs. Assassination and Subtlety
I'll be the first to admit that many Combat heavy builds, especially Combat daggers (which I was for a long time while raiding), are not inherently fun to play.
However, since the inception of the Burning Crusade expansion and its long list of changes to the talent trees, Combat sword/mace/fist builds have gotten far more complex. With enough +hit gear, a Combat Rogue can generate enough energy to keep Slice and Dice and Rupture up at all times during a fight (though Rupture is not generally used on trash). A well geared Rogue may also have enough time to throw in an additional Eviscerate and still have enough combo points to keep SnD and Rupture running. The amount of damage a Rogue like this can cause is astronomical -- highly geared rogues have broken 3,000 DPS in certain fights. There are 10 man raids that don't have 3,000 DPS combined. Of course, these rogues are the exception rather than the rule, but it is possible for anyone to get to that level, provided they have the skill and the gear.
Before the Burning Crusade, it was extremely difficult to obtain enough +hit gear to reach the Hit Cap (these days it's still difficult, but possible). The Hit Cap, by the way, is a term to describe how much +hit you need to have before all your attacks will never miss (though they still can be dodged or parried, but more on that later). The Hit Cap is normally calculated for the most difficult mob to hit. In the current game, this means a level 73 (boss) mob. The base chance to miss a level 73 while dual wielding is 28% for your "white" damage (normal swings), and 9% for your "yellow" damage (special attacks). In simple terms: once you have 9% hit, your special attacks will never miss, and once you have 28% hit, you'll never miss your normal swings. We'll get more into the Hit Cap later, but one of the reasons Combat performs so well in raids is based on a talent called Combat Potency, which gives your off-hand a 20% chance to give you 15 energy when it hits. As you get closer to the hit cap this talent gets better and better, and with a fast off-hand weapon you can get to the point where you'll have more energy than you know what to do with.
Aside from Combat Potency, there are many other talents that will increase your damage output directly, many of which synergize well with a high hit rating. By never missing an attack, you maximize your chance for Sword Spec to proc. Precision increases your chance to hit (more on that later), Dual Wield spec increases your off-hand damage, etc...
The Assassination tree is often utilized as a secondary tree when using a heavy Combat build. It has talents that enhance energy regeneration and increase combo point generation, as well as passive and direct increases to damage output. Some builds, like Combat Mutilate, spec deeply into this tree and can be competitive in smaller raids assuming the targets can be poisoned. However, it is much more difficult to reach the Hit Cap with this build, and reaching the Hit Cap does not increase energy regen, as it does in Combat. All that increasing your hit with Assassination and Subtlety specs will do is increase your white damage -- this is still important, but the effect is not as dramatic as it would be with Combat Potency.
The Subtlety tree has undergone perhaps the most amount of changes over the years. For a long time it was the "utility" tree for rogues. These days the utility is still there, but is now even stronger; additionally, the tree has become even more popular for PvP due to talents like Shadowstep and Hemorrhage. The tree is generally of limited use for raids as it lacks the sustained damage of Combat, and the energy/CP generation of Assassination. However, in larger raids, the debuff from Hemo can increase the raid's overall DPS. With enough melee DPS in the raid, this can make up for the loss of the rogue's personal DPS. In smaller raids, hybrid builds that mix Subtlety and Combat can do enough damage to be competitive on trash fights, but will most likely fall behind during Boss encounters.
I will go over some more raid-friendly specs that include Subtlety talents, but if you are interested in doing the most amount of damage (and thus, being the most useful to your raid), a heavy Combat build is really your only option. Remember, every other DPS class brings more to a raid than just DPS:
- Mage - water/food/Crowd Control
- Warlock - health stones/soul stone
- Warrior - group buff/Off Tank
- Shaman - group buff/Off Healer/wipe prevention
- Hunter - group buff/CC/Misdirection
- Shadow Priest - mana battery/OH
- Druid - OT/OH/battle rez
- Retribution Paladin - group buffs/OH/wipe prevention
The Hit Cap
Hit Rating, as a stat, is misleading -- it actually decreases your chance to Miss. As mentioned earlier, the Hit Cap currently is 28% / 9% against level 73 targets (raid bosses). What this really means is that your base chance to miss is 28% (while dual wielding) with regular swings, and 9% to miss with your special attacks.
In terms of Hit Rating (what you see when you look at your Character's stats), you'd need 442 / 142 Hit Rating (for regular swings / special attacks, respectively) to reduce your chance to miss to 0%. With Precision (from the Combat tree), this number drops to 363 / 64. Keep in mind that this is not a number you must achieve -- even the rogues of Nihilum, arguably the best geared rogues in the game today, don't achieve this number (though they come quite close, generally between 300-320 hit rating). Aside from just lowering the number of attacks you miss, hit rating can actually lead to an increase in critical strikes on regular swings -- this can be a difficult concept to understand. Think of it this way: Your crit chance encompasses all of your swings, not just the ones that land. The reason behind this is that there is only one "roll" made by the game engine when your character swings. Let's imagine that the computer rolls a 100-sided die to determine what your attack will be. If you have 0 hit rating and a 50% crit chance, the "attack table" (arrangement of all possible outcomes of your swing) on a level 73 might look like this:
- 1-28: Miss (28%)
- 29-36: Dodge (~7%*)
- 37-62: Glancing Blow (25%)
- 63-100: Critical Strike (40%)
- 0: Hit (0%)
This is the priority that WoW uses to determine what the outcome of an attack is. Because a critical strike has a lower priority than miss, dodge, or a glancing blow (and that all possible outcomes must combine to equal a 100% chance -- after all, something must happen when you swing), we can see that our crit chance has been lowered to 40%! Now let's see what happens if we add 10% hit chance, and lower our crit chance by 5%.
- 1-18: Miss (18%)
- 19-26: Dodge (6.5%)
- 27-51: Glancing Blow (25%)
- 52-97: Critical Strike (45%)
- 98-100: Hit (5.5%)
In the next installment, I'm going to talk about the Expertise cap, positioning, and the different specs you should be considering. Read it here ===>
Filed under: Rogue, Raiding, Guides, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sideshow Feb 27th 2008 5:43PM
Interesting. Good wrietup. As a combat-heavy rogue, this is good stuff.
Razielwings Mar 4th 2008 4:31AM
I'm also a combat heavy rogue but I don't think this sums up everything you're responsible for in a group, no matter the size.
Things go wrong. Tanks lose agro. Healers pull it. Pats get pulled.
As rogues we have a lot of abilities that can "save the day" after a bad pull. I take it as a personal goal to protect the clothies, those kamikaze mages, bloodthirsty locks, and misunderstood priests. Leather's not plate, it's not mail, but it's still a significant step up from a silk robe.
My stratergy is either to unleash a few of my cooldowns to steal agro and pop evasion, or to stun lock them for as long as possible with gouge and kidney shot and if it comes to it using up my vanish to cheap shot them and follow up with another kidney shot. A few seconds of distraction can prove vital in allowing the other players to get their acts together again.
Do any other rogues have other tactics or roles they like to fill in a group other than DPS?
Chris Feb 27th 2008 5:50PM
Hit is no more an important stat than any other, while it effects every other stat and is valued much higher there's no magical number you need to hit to be viable. I'm in all T6 and my hit's at 239 unbuffed. Since my attack power is almost 2k and my crit is around 32% (again unbuffed) having such a 'low' hit doesn't make that big of a difference in my DPS. I still beat out almost every other class.
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16940-roguecraft_101_a/
If you're going for DPS the only viable build right now is combat, since they nerfed Hemo time and time again Combat is the best. Daggers should be a rogues last choice, they don't do nearly as much DPS. This is even more true in the higher gears.
Valius Feb 27th 2008 5:50PM
good article.
hellshire Feb 27th 2008 6:21PM
This man speaks the truth. There is a common misconception that t4 is inherently better then t5 because t5 is loaded with crit and ap while t4 is chock full off hit. This of course is flat out wrong. With the proper gear and gem selection it's not hard to get 200+ hit. Essentially don't gimp your other stats for just hit. Personally I find that it starts giving diminishing returns around 250+. According to reccount* I never miss more then 20 swings + specials during a boss fight and I think I have something around 283 hit.
*I have no idea how accurate reccount is. I was actually quite surprised when I saw such a low number myself.
Furien Feb 27th 2008 6:40PM
Daggers don't nearly do as much dps? While I'm swords and prefer them, well played daggers can be competitive. Did you read the article you linked? As you get into T5 & T6 the gap widens but when you start raiding you shouldn't pass on the relatively common daggers available to you if your swords are inferior.
Relative damage (assuming Tier 4 gear)
Combat swords (--)
Combat fist+sword (-0.12%)
Combat daggers (-0.51%)
Derick Feb 27th 2008 8:10PM
While I see your point, I wish it weren't true....
I really want to be viable in a raid as a sneaky, shadowstepping, dagger weilding rogue....
The persona of silent stealthy thief is what attracts me to the class, and I've found that Sub really fits my play style...
It's never a good sign when the disclaimer at the beginning of an article says that the advice they have is going to make a game less fun to play...
:(
I know it was mentioned, but in a nice size group, couldn't a Hemo paired with other DPS be enough of a boost to justify it?
Meh, maybe I'll just stay out of raids...
I hear there's nice gear in the PvP side of things too...
theremover Feb 27th 2008 6:47PM
Nearly every discussion about raiding rogues that has ever taken place has suggested that "dagger rogues don't do as well" (usually it's not put so politely..).
This is simply not true. It comes down to play style. There are certain fights/situations/whatever where daggers are at a disadvantage but in your tank-and-spank fights especially, daggers are more than viable. It just requires a different approach than most think to take when comparing the different weapons.
Also, not sure why the author thought combat daggers wasn't fun to play. To each their own I guess. Sneaking up on things and stabbing them in the back and things of this sort seems infinitely more interesting to me though than whacking away with swords to the face.
Zhalseran Feb 27th 2008 6:58PM
Combat daggers is one of the most boring raiding specs possible. Combat swords is dull but involves hitting the button more often x_x
theremover Feb 27th 2008 7:05PM
Not really. When I play daggers, I find myself active much more of the time (active meaning pushing buttons and having to physically do things control-wise with my character).
If you're playing daggers correctly, there isn't a second that goes by where you're not doing something.
Saiforune Feb 27th 2008 6:49PM
Thanks a bunch for doing this. I sent in an e-mail a few weeks back suggestion this topic and I'm REALLY glad you've done this. My rogue is getting ever so closer to 70 raiding and It's great to have everything simplified , rather than that MASSIVE wall of Text at elitest jerks. Hopefully you'll talk about gems sometime in the future also.
Veilux Feb 28th 2008 1:25PM
The first page of Roguecraft 101 over at EJ sums up the entire rest of the discussion in a very simplistic manner. There's no need to constantly wade through the 100+ other pages, because the first page is updated by Vulajin (up to 2.3.2 atm, I believe).
The gem section in particular is basically only a couple paragraphs. Do you still need it translated here? If so:
- Only socket blue gems to fulfill a Meta gem requirement, and if so only use the +4 Agi/+6 Stam.
- Only socket for gem bonuses if they are offensive minded (Hit, AP, Agi, etc) and only if you can do so via red and yellow gems.
The rest of the info would be dependant upon your spec.
Aiur Feb 27th 2008 7:07PM
Just to point out some things...some races have passive bonuses that provide +weapon skill, thus decreasing the amount of hit necessary.
In addition, some disclosure should be provided I believe. To the best of my knowledge, the "one roll" theory is still a theory. I personally believe that is is very much plausible, but there remain some rare skeptics out there that don't believe it is a one roll. Blizzard has never officially confirmed this, so I suggest you alter your language slightly to indicate this is all deduced though analysis of data that players conducted.
Again, this is to the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of any circumstances where blizzard may have officially confirmed this but I work on that assumption. (
-----
Chris, I don't believe it's so much about competition and "beat[ing] out almost every other class" but maximizing your damage output. I do believe every stat(Common sense, rogue related stats) for a raid rogue is important, but I do think that hit has a slightly higher priority than other stats because of the way that it's structured. Your critical strike/attack power will become wasted if you have a very low hit rating because of the potential of a strike to be a critical yet miss.
Conversely, you could argue that if given a choice, sacrificing attacking power for hit could hurt you, and that is entirely possible. It's learning to have the right balance. However, I believe that the right balance will be with a slightly higher weight being given toward hit. Again, it's never written in stone, but the caps serve as guidelines as your link expressed. I do imagine that at some point, when you must choose to either give up attack power or hit, that if your hit were significantly high enough that the reduction in attack power would hurt more than a reduction in hit.
doxxx Feb 27th 2008 8:27PM
All +weapon skill effects, including talents and racial passive abilities have been changed to give +expertise instead. There is NO way to increase your weapon skill beyond your level cap (i.e. 350 @ 70).
jrodman Feb 27th 2008 8:46PM
Blizzard came out and confirmed that the "one roll" theory's expected results do match the game's behavior. They didn't confirm one roll, but it doesn't matter.
grav Feb 28th 2008 5:38AM
Good article. I apologise for picking you up on an irrelevant detail, but don't forget the warlock curse. It's a big deal afa stackability goes.
IMHO AEP is the way to go re: balancing +hit/AP/crit/haste. Every now and then you need to take a spreadsheet and reevaluate your equivalencies, but they don't often change sufficiently to affect a gear choice :)
And as a general rule, a little of everything is probably safest. Excluding any stat entirely will decrease your potential.
Cat Feb 28th 2008 7:57AM
I appreciate the mathcraft that goes into these posts, but I think they miss an important point that affects 90% of lv70 rogues: we do more than just raid.
Now maybe some rogues can afford to respec multiple times in a day, have multiple T4-T6 gear sets gemmed and enchanted specifically for particular tasks, and are content to spam a specific cycle during raid encounters and never do anything wrong. I suspect the majority don't fit into this category (I certainly don't).
We do daily PvP and quests as well as heroics and raids. We are still saving for the premier enchants and gems, so don't want to burn gold on respecs. Our gear is still evolving. We make mistakes and need strategies that are tolerant of that. We like to keep it interesting and try out different things in encounters. We are not totally dispassionate in our desire to maximise lifetime raid DPS - e.g. some of us just like daggers.
For example: If you could boost your encounter DPS by 1% by trading in your Vanish skill, would you? Upper-tier endgame rogues would no question, because they know the encounters so well that they never need to Vanish. We mortals however, need Vanish to stay alive sometimes when we bollocks something up and THAT has a better chance of preventing a wipe than an extra 1% on our DPS.
Another example: Cookie-cutter combat dagger spec (15/41/5) has no points in Improved Kick. Bollocks to that - I need IK for BGs and Arena and respeccing every day to do dailies takes money away from my BOP epics and enchants. So I'll drop a couple of points in pure raid DPS to pick that up, and spec 15/42/4. And leave the spec at that, because it's still good for raids and better than it used to be for PvP.
I'm not criticising the endgame mathcrafters because for them it really does matter. But for the rest of us, there needs to be some understanding that it doesn't come down to pure lifetime raid DPS all the time.
Maybe another series is needed - what about the EARLY endgame rogues who can't afford to be super-specialised and have to find a compromise?
Golijov Feb 29th 2008 2:15AM
@Cat
While I respect your opinion and know where you are coming from on the subject from your well written comment, I would just offer a reply of my own. To talk about endgame raiding is to talk about what is the top level content, change as it may. Currently as we all know its BT/MH. Next patch it will be Sunwell.
I will admit that I love math and theorycrafting, but its important to keep in mind that in a raid setting you should be dedicated to your role. If I am kicking spirit shocks on Reliquary or heals on illidari council, I make sure that is my focus. On everything else, my primary concern is doing the most dps I possibly can with the gear I have, and making sure that gear is selected, gemmed, and enchanted ideally.
With the plethora of available dailies, it isn't hard to have money for enchants and gems and flasks and worst of all, repairs.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are going to talk about raiding and endgame, you need to approach it with the right perspective.
grav Feb 29th 2008 5:08AM
@Cat/Golijov: I'm with Cat, an article or series on this is just the role WoWI could fill. If you really want the latest optimisations, just go to EJ. The "Rogue Theorycraft 101" summary is really quite readable. (Marcie Knox, hearts to you btw ;) )
WOWI is ideally positioned to talk about those just entering T5 say, who need to grind some badges or honor along the side to help gear up. This is a large unfulfilled market.
Having said that... I would humbly suggest staying raid build for dailies and doing PvP in blocks if possible, say once a week. 50g isn't what it used to be, and PvP without a full PvP build is often rather unpleasant.
Steve Feb 27th 2008 8:37PM
Having played all of the specs, I think that Mutilate was inherently the most fun. With the fast combo point generation and crit-when-I-need-it with Cold Blood, it made for entertaining fights with lots of options.
Combat builds, despite being a little dull to play, definitely do more damage. Does that mean that mutilate is "not raid viable?" Certainly not. It just means that you're not generating as much dps as you possibly could. If others in your raid have enough dps to make up for that, then you can certainly raid with a Mutilate build.
The same goes for any build. There is a big difference between doing a little less damage and "not raid viable."