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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsIs Mortal Strike the new black?
by Zach Yonzon 
Feb 29th 2008 at 2:00PM
Enter Patch 2.4 in the PTRs. When Kalgan finally descended upon the Shaman forums, he said that Shamans were definitely getting buffed just in time to quell the wake of an uproar to the nerfs made to the Elemental spec. Along with the reversal of the Nature's Swiftness and Elemental Mastery shared cooldown, the current iteration of the progressive patch is seeing a change to the Shaman's Flametongue Weapon and Totem, which happens to be -- surprise, surprise -- a Mortal Strike-style debuff. Yawn.
While it's certainly a welcome change, considering that Shamans get so little love, frankly it's getting a little boring. Allie mentioned calls for putting the buff on every class (Mortal Sheep or Mortal Portal for Mages is a classic), so this begs the question... is a Mortal Strike-type ability the only way to make a class or spec viable in the Arenas? Aside from the fact that Mortal Strike Warriors are conceivably the most popular class & spec, healing debuffs are clearly one of the game-breaking abilities in Arenas. With Resilience making crit-based and burst damage specs less and less viable, is there really a need for another Mortal Strike? Can't Blizzard make another buff to make a spec Arena-viable without using the same old trick? What do you guys think? How much more creative can you be?
Filed under: Hunter, Shaman, Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
the_angry_shaman Mar 26th 2008 8:06AM
word. but lets agree on one thing, shamans NEED a buff. fix spellpushback and give shamans MS flametongue. then we can cut those faggot droods in half like they deserve.
Imogynn Feb 29th 2008 2:28PM
Its pretty obvious isn't it? MS is the new "I do massive dps" effect.
Blizzard doesn't want people being one shot by enh shamans (or others)... so tune down their damage.
Except then shamans can't overcome healing and suck.
So give them MS.
Nystrus Feb 29th 2008 2:32PM
A lot of people make the mistake of acting like what makes Mortal Strike so good is the healing debuff. I'm not gonna say that that's not a part --it is-- but that's not really the big deal. The big deal about MS is that it's an instant attack for a massive 2-hander wielding warrior.
FT for shamans is actually much more analagous to wounding poison for rogues. It's a weapon imbue, it lands on hit, and you have to choose it over other options that provide more dps. The difference is that windfury is a much larger part of shaman dps than poisions are of rogue dps. So it makes sense, since poisons are baseline, for this to be baseline and arguably better, because you're using it instead of windfury weapon which is a big drop in dps.
James Riggs Feb 29th 2008 3:09PM
Balancing for PVP will kill this game just like it has so many others in the past. Beware Blizzard, beware.
Tridus Feb 29th 2008 2:37PM
Nothing encourages more healers to do battlegrounds like giving out Mortal auto-attack.
I guess next they can boost Paladins in arenas by giving out Mortal Strike aura.
Rich Feb 29th 2008 2:41PM
That'll be Death Knight ability...
Naturii Feb 29th 2008 2:39PM
As a Shaman I was hoping for something cool...this is isn't cool.
I agree that Arena has placed a lot of strain on balancing classes. I don't care for it.
Angus Feb 29th 2008 2:46PM
This change wasn't a buff.
WF/WF does so much more damage that it is essentially a wash for enhancement shaman.
Besides, it's not like we have a way to use the thing as enhancement.
It didn't make us arena viable, it is a stupid change and it is about equal in buffing an enhancement shaman as blessing of wisdom on a Rogue is.
Tridus Feb 29th 2008 2:50PM
If you really think that WF/WF will kill someone faster then WF/FT when they're getting heals, you fail at WoW.
FT will reduce the incoming healing by half. Any decently geared healer is putting out at least 1000 HPS, which is now 500 HPS.
WF on your offhand doesn't generate 500 DPS more then FT on your offhand (not even close), so you're coming out way ahead by offhanding FT. Best of all, the better geared the healer is, the more ahead you are by offhanding FT.
Angus Feb 29th 2008 3:13PM
Fact 1: WF on off hand matching speed causes both weapons to have a proc rate of 36% on each swing outside the coolsdown.
Fact 2: The same bug causing the first swing outside the cooldown effectively also causes the main hand to have priority so it procs WF most of the time.
Fact 3: If you don't have it on both, you have a 20% chance to proc after the coolsdown dropping the total % from around 20% to 12%.
Dishing out damage that the healer is unable to anticipate or respond to is how you win a fight.
MS works that way because you cut their heals in half and do damage.
Burst damage does the same because they are sitting at 50% and suddenly drop in 3 seconds and the healer never saw it coming. WF/WF may not cause you to outpace the healing, but it gives you a chance to hit them when the healer isn't really expecting it to matter.
Besides, did you bother reading the rest of the statement I made?
"YOU CANNOT DO THAT WHILE STUNNED"
"YOU ARE TOO FAR AWAY"
"YOU ARE DEAD"
See those comments?
I saw those more in my time alive in Arena S1 than anything else. MS won't stop any of those.
Stun a warrior, he'll likely survive long enough to outlast it. Stun a shaman, say night night. Trinket? That's fine, now comes the second or third stun they have. A warrior can trinket and immediately pop something designed to get the momentum back. Intimidating shout, or any number of other moves that get him a chance to be in charge again. Shaman have no such moves to regain the advantage. Heck, the warrior can get there almost instantly from range, stun you and proceed to kick you around. You get to kite the shaman if you really want to, not like he can close.
So tell me, how does FT mean jack when I can't get more than 2 swings in anyway?
It's not a buff. It is a bunch of guys with no clue about a class acting like a mechanic that allows warriors to use their other major advantages to best effect will work on any class that sucks in Arena.
Hell, they even gave us what we asked for but made it so horribly worthless that we will ask for it changed back rather than take their stupidly broken version. Something that was needed is now worthless but "we asked for it."
Jez Feb 29th 2008 2:53PM
As a resto shammy, i always have on Flametongue cuz my mace does a whopping no damage. WF is useless so i may as well us it to get some damage that isn't reduced by armor.
If they want to buff Shammys, i say give us a +Healing weapon buff.
hisame Feb 29th 2008 2:52PM
The funny thing is if you look at the shaman forums, they aren't too thrilled about this either this change either.
If given a choice of any warrior ability that would address a key concern of shamans (which is being kited infinitely), it would be to give them an intercept-like ability, not a MS ability (that costs minimal mana rather than costing 25 rage or a few seconds to aim).
Baluki Feb 29th 2008 2:58PM
I've been playing a shaman for over 3 years now, and I think this change is just stupid. I don't want MS. I think Hunters should have theirs removed too, and Warriors should have theirs nerfed to 25% or so. Having so much MS going around is just making healing worthless for PvP.
This change just goes to show that the devs still don't have the slightest idea of what to do with shamans.
I'd love to see WoW Insider do a poll about this topic.
Q: What do you think of the Flametongue/Mortal Strike change?
1: I play a shaman and I like it.
2: I play a shaman and I don't like it.
3. I don't play a shaman and I like it
4. ...etc, etc.
domineek Feb 29th 2008 3:00PM
Why ? Why ? Why ? you ask.
Considering the amount of qq that goes on constantly over patches that are not yet public implemented, not to mention the amount of QQ!! that goes on constantly after patches are public implemented (oops, I just mentioned it didn't I), it seems no jump in logic that the unique tricks of the most versatile class in the game would be exploited in this manner.
And sincerely, exploitation is the word for it.
With the exception of healers, no other class is nearly as gear dependent as warrs are. The fact of the matter is, warrs are more gear dependent on gear that is more difficult to obtain.
If you don't buy that.... roll a tank, pre-gear for kara MT and see how you do in a little bg on the way with your quest green dps gear (after the weekly respec of course).
The point I'm driving at here is this... Warrs are the most versatile class in the game and that evolution has come about due to the fact that in order to dominate as a warr tank or warr dps, you have to know your class and have the skill to play it.
Nerf warrs, we adjust and climb back on top. Buff everyone else, we adjust and climb back on top. Domination is in our nature and we always endure. Give every class in the dam game the top talent outta that warr tree and you will see us fight and claw and scratch our way to fury gear sets/crazy hybrid spec choices/unusual gem selections and dominate in the months to come.
How many times has a talent 31 points into a tree been outright handed to a warrior? or a rogue? Gimme a break.
WTF are shamans crying about? Do they expect to be crowned the new pre 2.0 or 2.1 druids? Wanna pawn at everything in the game with easy to obtain gear (insert welfare epic argument here) and NO respecs??
Climb down from your QQchair, put in the effort to L2play (anyone heard of a shaman theorycrafter??), and STFU so I don't have to take it upon myself to explain how to class dominate. Nothing is for free, put in the work if you wanna own.
Remontoire Feb 29th 2008 3:08PM
Actually it sounds as if even shamans think this "buff" is retarded, which pretty much makes everyone now.
Baluki Feb 29th 2008 3:00PM
THIS is the new black:
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1555030620080115?sp=true
Amone77 Feb 29th 2008 3:12PM
Guess i could think of a couple PvP abilities that would be different and useful. . . Lemme see, what about more abilities that "slow" a classes attack/casts, on hit, for sort durations of time (5-10secs), perhaps even slowing to global cooldown to get at rogues and insta-casters.
-Or perhaps more types of counter attacks, ones that you had to activate before being hit by a specific type of ability (physical/magic/debuff), and only had like a 1-2 second duration so it would require timing and prediction of your opponent. These counter-attacks may not simply apply damage, they might apply useful debuffs on the target and or static damage.
-More debuffs: -50% increased mana cost for 12 secs.
-Target takes "X" additional elemental damage from all sources of attacks or spells for 10-15 secs.
-Target takes "X" amount of damage per step they take for 5-10 secs. (not a snare, but a heavy price to pay for mobility)
-just a couple things of the top of my head. they may be unbalanced as is it, and would obviously require the great minds at blizzard to work over.
Kadathwack Feb 29th 2008 3:23PM
Let's keep in mind that this is still on the PTR, for a patch that is still probably at least a month away. And if this change actually makes it on to the live realms as is, I will be deeply surprised.
The point of the PTR is to test changes like these. To experiment with them. Not every idea is going to be a winner, or make it to live.
Adam Feb 29th 2008 3:25PM
Instead of just giving more and more classes MS, there's other effects that do different things but would have similar effects, like if Flametongue applied an effect that did one of the following instead of the MS-like effect:
- Increase all damage taken by x% --> Person still requires more healing due to more damage but it's not because healing is less effective on them. Also, would be useful in PvE as well.
- Decrease healing DONE by x% --> Requires the attacker to actually attack the healer, but that healer could still be backed up by another healer in a BG.
- Increase mana cost of all spells/abilities by x% --> A mana drain that doesn't directly drain mana but forces the person to drain it themselves.
- Increase cooldowns on spells/abilities by x --> Like that one world dragon back in the day.
Etc, etc.
See, Blizz could get much more creative with this stuff but they're lazy so it's now, "LOL, MS!"
I wouldn't be surprised if Mangle (the feral druid 41-pt ability for anyone who didn't know) also got an MS effect one of these days.
tyler Feb 29th 2008 3:30PM
plx giev teh d00mguard MS of Death of DOOM