Making the PvE-PvP break
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 3rd 2008 at 8:00PM
There's been quite a bit of talk about the PvE vs. the PvP game lately -- with Arena PvP basically dictating the changes to drinking and Lifetap, and Mortal Strike-like abilities also taking center stage (which are almost useless in PvE), Blizzard's plan of having the same characters in PvE and PvP seems to be backfiring on them. They originally wanted to let you use all the abilities and techniques that you use in PvE in PvP as well, but reader Raul recently sent us a comment that more and more players might agree with: it's time Arena PvP became its own game, and Blizzard split the two up for good.This is the case in Guild Wars -- when you roll a character in that game, you choose it for PvP or PvE, and there are certain things you can only do with each. And even Blizzard is heading this way, believe it or not: with the debut of the Arena realm this weekend, some players are already clamboring for characters that they only play Arena with 24/7.
Are we really ready to split the game into World of Warcraft and Warcraft Arena? There will no doubt be a lot of players who want to continue to play their characters in both PvE and PvP, balance be damned. But if Blizzard is as committed as they seem to be to balance Arena as precisely as it needs to be balanced to turn it into a real e-sport, they may have to eventually make the jump and separate the two games completely.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP, Leveling, Battlegrounds, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Verit Mar 3rd 2008 8:08PM
I think arena/pvp only would be kinda dull - if I wanted that I'll go back to playing counterstrike.
Nick S Mar 3rd 2008 11:15PM
i keep counter-strike installed because it will always be better than WoW PvP - it's a game that relies on reflexes and skill, not warrior and druid. the only WoW PvP that i might have considered "fun" is AV for its focus on large-scale cooperation, and that's been turned into another opportunity to farm.
there is a cost to entry to both sides of the game now: for PvP, you must grind honor and arena points endlessly to achieve a very specific set of gear to have any hope of competing. for PvE, you must achieve a given gear level in general to perform in a given encounter. on the PvP side, entry is zero-fun-sir. you run the same battleground 20 times a day while half the team holds very still somewhere. on the PvE side, however, you run a huge variety of instances with complex mechanics, all while balancing the social dynamic of a group. that's what i find fun. you might like farming honor; ok. but here's the problem...
the people farming honor are better-geared for BOTH than a hapless PvE-lover in 70 blues, because the PvP gear has high-end raid stats, plus resilience. so the people who don't like PvP are disadvantaged by the current system, or forced to participate in an aspect of the game they hate in order to keep up with all the people who go greens-lolepix.
so separate away, please. send the nubbins in S1 lolepix trying to take my kara spot to another server. the only other salve for my woes is to make PvP gear unusable outside BGs and arenas, either by changing the stats or by literally implementing a lockout in PvE-land.
Gareth Mar 4th 2008 5:36AM
How about when you turn up for duty in the frostwolf tunnel to clean AV of those Allies you get issued with frostwolf armour ?
Maybe having a 6 piece set that keeps the rest of your trinkets, rings and smaller items, or just overwrites your tabbard, keeps your original look but overwrites your main 6 piece armour stats.
Same for Arena, where you have to earn (ratings) the right to wear the higher end armour.
Then when you step out of either you go back to your current set. Thinking on it though I had no problem with pvp before arena and the TBC jump to massive damage abilities. If WoW has a future they need to get back to the balance they originally achieved with WotLK and just let people have fun in BGs, like it is below level 70.
I am hoping here that they do split Arena off from PVE servers, personally I think it would kill Arena too, but since its been ruining my fun I couldn't care less about it. My hunch is though that in a years time if this current Arena juggling carries on I'll not be doing either as something better may well come along, I'm certainly not getting involved in WotLK if my TBC attempt to raid gets nerfed into the ground.
Spockette Mar 4th 2008 6:51AM
WoW will never separate. Hence more in-depth world PVP due out in the WotLK. End of story.
Besides, if every new player to the game could have a level 1 character or a fully geared 70+, where do you think the mass majority of newcomers are going to go (regardless of your experience)?
judge Mar 3rd 2008 8:24PM
yeah, seperating the two is stupid sh*t, honestly...
i left GW and came to WoW because PvE and pvp were so well interwoven, and the balances made dont really affect pve that much, each class still has its identity, so WHAT IF ONE LOCK SPELL ISNT AS GOOD? huh?! i mean really, this article could basicallybe summarized as "QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ" wow is being balanced for arena BAAAWWWWWLLL.....
Fletch Mar 3rd 2008 8:27PM
When changing that "ONE LOCK SPELL" pretty much breaks the entire class, there's a problem. Blizzard seems to increasingly be making PVP fixes that seriously hurt the PVE game, which is very strange for a game where PVP was just an afterthought for so long.
quaunaut Mar 3rd 2008 8:28PM
You're completely wrong about Guild Wars.
You have a choice of making a PvP or PvE character: PvP characters start at maximum level, but all you can do is PvP, and use the gear given to you, and that you win. Also, you have to earn special abilities by winning enough matches.
In PvE, you have to level the character from level 1, but you get better gear, more customizable weapons, quests for extra stats, and just more options.
Papadoc Mar 4th 2008 9:34AM
Yep, in Guild Wars, PvP characters are PvP only and start at max level with minimum gear. You have to win matches to unlock more gear.
PvE characters can PvP as they wish with whatever gear they have earned through PvE.
I played GW from the day it released until I switched to WoW a year ago. I had a PvE Necro (Kildred DeVine) that I PvPed with an insane amount of time.
Hurode Apr 15th 2008 4:09PM
Hmm...I don't remember GW's pvp being so in-depth. It was obviously always in depth, guild battles were a blast, but it seems that it's been upgraded quite nicely since I quit. Might have to pick it back up.
Varshak Mar 3rd 2008 8:28PM
Separating PvP and PvE sounds like a bad idea to me. Having a persistent, coherent world is kinda the whole point of an MMO, where you can make a character that can do everything, or a few things, or just one thing if you feel like it. If you get sick of raiding, try PvP for a few weeks. If your PvP team is away on holidays, do a few heroics and get enough badges for a neat trinket. The game has a much better chance of staying interesting if there are many things to do, instead of just one.
Hellskreamer Mar 4th 2008 12:25AM
I completely agree with this statement. Part of the reason I play WOW is because of the huge variety of things that I can do. I love PvE, but at the same time, I love hopping into some battlegrounds and fighting on a large scale against intelligent, thinking opponents (as opposed to some AI scripted encounter). Personally, I think splitting the two would completely ruin the game for the average player.
judge Mar 3rd 2008 8:33PM
yeah ,that comment was pretty harsh, but in all seriousness, i think i know what could work: it would be similar to GuildWars, but premade chacters shold have some restricitons on them, like any of the following: must have generic names, no personalization; armor skins should be plain and have no variety; they would be deleted after a certain amount of time; things like that, so people who had worked for the lvl 70 would still be different, but not any difference from a competitve point of view.
Kethlyr Mar 3rd 2008 9:54PM
Why not just have a debuff that changes your abilities slightly when you flag for pvp?
Doesn't seem that complicated.
Terrant Mar 3rd 2008 9:45PM
I agree with this. The crowd control abilities already work differently on enemy players than they do on enemy mobs, so Blizzard has already treated some spells differently.
judge Mar 3rd 2008 8:37PM
TO anyone who says otherwise:
In GW your PVP charactesrs are NOT any weaker than your PVE characters. You simply must win matches to unlock more options that a PvE person would need to get as a drop.
Thander Mar 3rd 2008 8:37PM
Blizzard will never separate the two. There's just not enough PvP content in WoW to make a whole separate game.
They've shown the ability to make changes that only affect PvP or PvE. They should just completely separate the balance changes. Skill tooltips would have two sections: PvP, PvE. If they worked the same in both areas, the tooltip would just have one section.
This seems like a big change so they would probably have to be something in the expansion or a large patch that focused on that.
Markymark Mar 3rd 2008 8:39PM
I personally wouldn't like to see the two split. I like PVE and PVP.... as Verit said: If I wanted arena/pvp i'd play counterstrike.
Elzooi Mar 4th 2008 4:24AM
For me that is excactly the reason they should split it. If I want to do pvp I'll reinstall UT. That game is made for pvp, wow is made for pve.
judge Mar 3rd 2008 8:41PM
The most annoying thing in WOW is that i cant use all my skills in arena. As a shaman i cant cast my earth/fire elemental totems in arena. I just feel that there is no explanation for that! Let the skills run wild, and let classes be slightly unbalanced! Having two sections of each skill is THE SAME THING AS HAVING TWO DIFFERENT GAMES, except that it will confuse more people.
picanteboy Mar 4th 2008 10:05AM
Why not just have abilities work differently in arena then in the rest of the game? Each arena should have a "coach" NPC for each team. The coach is on the sideline -- like in a boxing match -- and gives you a pep talk before you enter the arena. The pep talk gives you a buff that changes your abilities. That way, Blizzard can fine tune PvP as much as it wants and not have to worry about its effect on PvE and raiding.
As it is, balancing single player PvE and raiding PvE is hard enough, why doesn't Blizzard give itself an easy way out when it comes to PvP. The two sides of the game (especially when it comes to arena) are so different anyways, just accept it, embrace it, and make the classes act differently in arena and the rest of the game.