Can a shaman tank Karazhan?
Galstaff of Durotan believes so, and put his money where his mouth is, so to speak, by doing it. (Warning, the movie is 20 minutes long.) While anyone can 'tank' Shade of Aran, I was pretty impressed by his tanking of Malchezzar, especially when he admits in the thread (and his armory backs him up) that while he's achieved immunity to critical hits by a combination of resilience and defense, he's still taking crushing blows. He also says he chugs Ironshield Potions which makes sense, as his armor is low for the instance (in my opinion as a tank, anyway) which is not surprising since he's in mail. He claims 17.7k health for the Prince Malchezzar attempt, which is certainly within the ballpark. (I've done it with about 1k less on my warrior, although nowadays I'd never have less than 18.5 k for any boss.)His talent selection shows you the limits of Shaman tanking at this time: He has full Shield Spec, Toughness and Anticipation, giving him the most armor and dodge he could possibly have, but by taking Spirit Weapons (necessary for the ability to Parry, which is essential for tanking) he reduces his melee threat by 30%. This is a great talent choice for a melee DPSer who might get a boss turning to hit him before the tank can pick it up. But for a tanking shaman, it means he has to rely on his spell damage (Frost Shock in particular) as well as Lightning Shield to generate threat, with Stormstrike and Windfury doing the rest of the work. Galstaff also mentions that he had to stack the group with a Shadow Priest to regenerate mana since he couldn't use Water Shield: I'd expect he had to use Shamanistic Rage every single time it was up for both the mana regen and the damage reduction.
Basically, as he himself admits, shamans are the worst 'off tank' with no ability to get enough avoidance to push crushing blows off of the table, so to do this you'd need a ton of resilience on mail (since you're not going to find mail with the stats you need and defense) and some very, very good healers. And as long as shaman tanks require a shadow priest to regain enough mana to tank, it's not going to be a common sight. But as a warrior and shaman player, I liked seeing it. Maybe we could get shamans some actual tanking talents, and they could move into the ranks of the other hybrid classes as being able to DPS, heal and tank? If it's good enough for paladins and druids, why not shamans?
Filed under: Shaman, Analysis / Opinion, How-tos, Odds and ends, Instances, Raiding, Bosses, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
kevan Mar 5th 2008 11:05AM
Sure it's possible...practical is another story.
props for playing outside the box!
Baluki Mar 5th 2008 11:09AM
While I don't agree that we shamans should become a tanking class (in fact, I think Shield Spec is an abomination), it is cool to see someone trying something different. I'm surprised that he can tank effectively with his threat reduced by 30%. I suppose the fights need to take a long time, so everyone else doesn't out-aggro him.
Now, let's see a mage tank! You just need really good (REALLY good) healers.
Zumwalah Mar 5th 2008 11:10AM
they need to change the earth ele totem, so rather then it spawning a Earth Ele, it changes the SHaman to an Earth Ele, and give a Armor/Defense Bonus. then create a Elemental Sheild.. like AIr Shield that increases Defense, and Threat Generated. i think these 2 additions would make shaman an almost viable tank.
Milktub Mar 5th 2008 11:23AM
Cute. I love players who go for a gimmick.
But I'm baffled. 18.5k hp? I may be a noob, but I'm stuck trying to figure out how to get that while still maintaining Defense and Avoidance. I pretty casual, clearing half of Kara once a week, but I hang at 13.5k HP unbuffed and and confused as to how to pick up another 500 stamina (well, slightly less thanks to Tauren bonus and vitality).
gotRoot Mar 5th 2008 12:00PM
18.5k is pretty easily doable while still having enough defense and avoidance with Kara/Heroic gear and stacking +12 stamina gems. My tank (pally) is depending on gear, at 493-495 def, between 103-108 avoidance, and with the right group makeup (and gear swapping) get dang close to 18.1-18.2k HP while still wearing a couple of blues (damn Netherspite refuses to drop his shoulders).
I do however question, needing 18.5k to tank anything in Kara... Gruul's and above heck yeah, anything in Kara absolutely not. Our MT is roughly at about 17k health and our healers barely break a sweat keeping him and I healed throughout all fights.
Matthew Rossi Mar 5th 2008 12:28PM
When I say 18.5 k, I mean that's what I raid with: it's not meant specifically as a Karazhan target number. My unbuffed health is at 15080 or so, but I have T5 gloves, the hat from Zul'Aman and the Unwavering Legguards from badges.
Krick Mar 5th 2008 1:21PM
I tanked prince for the first time last week on my pally with just under 14K health and just over 14K armor (before buffs). I have 492 defense (uncrittable) and just over 102.4% combined avoidance (uncrushable).
The first attempt, I ran out of mana and we wiped. The second attempt, I judged and sealed wisdom the whole time and we were successful.
Note that I didn't use any flasks or food buffs. I only used wizard oil on my sword for the extra spell damage.
So for a shaman, I think the biggest problem is going to be mana as well, not armor and health. If you have a balanced group that really knows the fight well, it's really not that tough. Positioning the groupt to avoid the elementals and shadow novas is critical. If you're in the wrong spot, you're dead.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
Xonate Mar 5th 2008 11:24AM
The shaman talent tree is interesting. The earlier talents are tanking ones, such as more armor, shield block, etc. Then you go further down the tree and all of these become worthless, as you shouldn't have aggro anyway and to get parry you lose so much threat. In my opinion, they should either make shamans able to tank or take out these worthless talents.
Ashwin Mar 5th 2008 11:24AM
What shamans need IMO is a sort of tanking stance like warriors and druids have, something that reduces the cost and cooldown of shocks by 50%, reduces the damage of shocks by 50%, but increases their threat by 50%. In addition this stance would increase threat generation by 30% and decrease damage taken by 40%. The figures I give are rough approximates but you get what I am aiming at.
nycethetal Mar 5th 2008 11:28AM
It is cool to see the shaman tank, but I think that blizzard was making an attempt to make them more of a spell-melee hybrid class version the paladin which is more of a tank-melee class. the shaman class is more about dishing out damage than mitigating it.
I do think that blizzard could tweak the shaman class a bit more to allow the elemental tree to be a bit more melee useful (probably not much need for this, but i would like to see elemental spec shaman do more than cast lightning bolts).
Ashwin Mar 5th 2008 8:34PM
@5, According to the official strategy guide, Shamans can tank the lower level instances, I myself can attest to this, tanking instances till early uldaman on occasion as an enhancment shaman, I think these talents reflect that.
Derek Mar 5th 2008 11:40AM
Lets see, I've tanked Mana tombs, Ramparts... just about all the lowbie instances... with my warlock!
As for kara, I'm always the off-tank for curator (SL/SL+felpup+17kHP).
Would be ineteresting to see what I could do with full focus on mitigation and stamina.
PeeWee Mar 5th 2008 1:01PM
Off-tank Curator? You don't need that, just fry the sparks and heal through their damage and the bolts.
Derek Mar 5th 2008 2:57PM
Off-tank on curator is really just 2nd aggro, constant DPS on curator eating the arcane bolts. Since a lock really is shit for damage against those sparks (no pushback with my spec). And yea, we don't spread out, the group just clusters up and kills the sparks.
Gaijin Mar 5th 2008 11:43AM
The funny thing is, pre-2.0 a properly geared and specced Shaman could tank instances effectively. The old Rockbiter generated a ton of threat. The Enhancement tree wasn't working against us for tanking quite as much then.
Now with so many good Druids, Paladins, and Warriors ready and able to tank, Shamen aren't needed to fill this role anymore.
They really do need to get rid of the shield block talent.
Charlie Mar 5th 2008 11:46AM
I LOL'ed at nublet auther and 18.5k hp!! ANd I bet he only runs kara with 3 healers as well! :D
Charlie Mar 5th 2008 11:48AM
author* !!
Elmo Mar 5th 2008 11:50AM
actually this shows how broken the Enhancement Tree is.
leftover Tanking talents while the parry was changed to do less melee threat.
the Shaman may have been originally planned to be an off tank but it isn't anymore.
they should either fix the tree to be tank viable or get rid of those talents.
Hoggersbud Mar 5th 2008 11:51AM
Almost makes you wish somebody has a righteous Fury buff they could put on others.
Dragons Mar 5th 2008 12:00PM
Lol so let me get this straight, You want shamans to Melle Dps, Heal, Caster Dps and Tank? U seem to compare it to Paladins and Druids but if you look at it in Raid positioning as we are looking at it now, I have seen all 3 Shamans in my raid, melle, ranged and healing, so we have 3+ shamans already in the raid. Looking at other hybrids we have 1-2 trees depending on fight and the rest Feral as offtanks (Dps while not tanking) So no we dont use a boomkin. And for paladins well our 2nd MT is a Paladin (Rare to see), And rest of paladins are healers, 0 Retri.
So my point is to add a 4rth shaman spot into raids will create a too of a big (1 class) raid margin with statistics of over 40% shamans in a raid, thus making it Overpowered and making a Shaman the Biggest Hybrid in game! This is from a PvE Prospective so please dont Reply with silly comments saying "Ench Shamans suck in PvP so we need new thing".
If you do not disapprove or do not understand what i am trying to put forward here just reply back nicely and maturly and Not FlAmE!!!
Thank You for reading my opinion :D! Also i Congrats the guy that did this!!!