Scattered Shots: The line of sight between hunters and the Arenas
I'd like to take a break from the hunter leveling goodness we've had the last few weeks in Scattered Shots to take a look at where hunters stand as a class in Arena PvP, and where we might be going in the future. Blizzard developer Kalgan's measurement of how the different classes are faring in the Arena got me thinking quite a bit about the state of hunters -- currently functioning at the lowest place with 50% or less representation in the three Arena types at high rating brackets, followed by mages and shamans, in the 2vs2 Arena especially.What in the world is causing such a huge discrepancy between hunters and other classes when it comes to high-rating arena representation? When I play in Arenas and Battlegrounds, I don't feel like my class is somehow deficient or underpowered. My team's Arena rating is average -- we're not the best, but not the worst either. When I get beaten, I usually feel like the other team actually played better (or outgeared us, at least), so it's rather hard to see what's so messed up about hunters.
The most obvious issue I can think might be the issue is that of Line of Sight. Hunters obviously have a rough time shooting at things behind sort of obstacle. In battlegrounds there are more wide open spaces, so it seems less of an issue there, but in Arenas it can get fairly annoying. Classes like warlocks and shadowpriests can just put a damage-over-time spell on you, and then hide behind a pillar, while druids can move freely around obstacles to give them plenty of time to heal themselves between your attacks. Warriors and other melee classes can hide for a bit, then get in so close that you can't use your best ranged abilities on them for a few seconds until you can somehow get away.
The removal of the "deadzone" hunters used to have between their melee and ranged abilities helped me a lot in this regard, but apparently it hasn't helped enough. The addition of a Mortal-Strike-like healing debuff to Aimed shot, as well as a dispelling effect from Arcane Shot also turned out to be pretty useful for me personally in my PvP endeavors, and the new PTR buff to extra-target abilities such as Multi-Shot promises to let hunters use this ability much more often, without fear of breaking crowd control. The thing is, though, that the Aimed Shot and Arcane Shot changes didn't seem to do enough for us in the Arenas at high ratings either, so it's hard to imagine that Multi Shot will make a big difference for our numbers either.
So what's really going on? More and more it looks like Line of Sight problems really are the killer issue here. Blizzard can buff other hunter abilities a lot and they'll still be useless if good opponents can use obstacles to prevent hunters from being able to use them. If there aren't any practical barriers for people to hide behind, then hunters seem overpowered, constantly able to hit people from a safe range. Yet when these barriers are too easy to use, hunters seem underpowered, since anyone who wants to hide can just stay on the opposite side of a pillar. Coming up with practical solutions can be very hard.
The most obvious solution would be to change some of the Arena environments to reduce the size of the obstacles in question, such as the Nagrand Arena pillars, so that they are not so easy to hide behind. Blizzard has shown extreme reluctance to change PvP maps in the past, as in Alterac Valley, so I seriously doubt they'll consider this. Something inside me tells me that it won't really help that much anyway.
A different solution would be to buff Serpent Sting as a damage over time spell, and possibly open up other options for hunters to do damage over time abilities just the way that warlocks do, thus becoming less reliant on burst damage that the enemy must be in the open in order to use. Nobody wants hunters to become warlock clones though, so perhaps this isn't the best option either.
Another possibility would be to give hunters some rudimentary control over the movement of other players, either through a knockback shot (or pet ability) that could disrupt their dance around the Arena pillars, or some sort of magnetic trap that could pull them away from a hiding place. This sort of change would be unprecedented, however. Aside from abilities that slow enemies down, or stop them altogether, there aren't any which allow players to forcibly move them where they don't want to go. Blizzard likely won't want to give players such abilities where they've been avoiding them all this time -- still, it is technically possible.
A more likely choice would be to buff one or more of the traps so that it can reliably root players in one spot -- although we have a trap that slows an enemy down, as well as a talent which gives us a rooting effect now and then, being able to rely on a root would mean that chasing them around could actually get them quite stuck -- and from there we would have a chance to boom at them for a few seconds. Druids would probably be able to get out of it by shapeshifting, of course, but that's not just an issue for hunters.
Another possibility would be to make hunter pets a much more serious threat in PvP, especially for beast-mastery hunters. Perhaps some pet ability could be improved to the point that enemies would have to choose very carefully whether to run away from the pet and into the hunter's line of sight, or else stay where they are and risk the wrath of the animal in their face.
Although I'm all for buffing pets, the more I think about this issue, the more I like the idea of being able to chase my opponents into a kind of Entangling Roots trap. I'd be eager for hunter traps to play a larger role in the way we play the class in general, as well, and this would be a good step in the right direction.
What's your opinion on why hunters aren't doing so well in the Arenas, even in spite of recent buffs to the class which were designed specifically for PvP? What more do you think needs to be done?
Filed under: (Hunter) Scattered Shots, Hunter, PvP, Arena






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
ShuManFu Mar 6th 2008 9:22PM
How are you line of site issues different to those of a mage? atleast u have a pet that can help you out..
Nevets Mar 6th 2008 9:25PM
water elemental ftw?
Freezer Mar 6th 2008 9:34PM
Except that a water elemental suffers from the same line of sight issues a mage does.
LuckyRollz Mar 6th 2008 9:47PM
Typical mage-- a column about hunters is somehow a platform to complain about another class. If you want to discuss mages, wait until a column has been written about them, when it's appropriate, IMO.
But since you brought it up, mages are a different animal than hunters. For starters, a mage can Blink to catch a pillar runner, then apply a root or snare spell, and then unload a lot more burst DPS than a hunter can. So it's not the same thing (although I suspect that the mage attendance numbers being down has something to do with LoS issues, too.)
And as far as Elementals go, a good mage with macro skills can use an Elemental very, very well, having a lot of control over him.
Algorithm Mar 7th 2008 11:36AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with what he's doing. Hunters complaining about Line of Sight. Immediate response: wait a second, you're not actually the class that this is the biggest issue for. It's Mages. Mage damage is almost exclusively cast-timed. Hunters get as about as many snares as mages. Hunters have concussive shot, which is a long ranged, instacast snare.
In terms of pet control, you cannot through the game UI tell your water elemental to follow your target and then attack. The only options are "follow me" and "pewpew." Melee pets are far easier to control. Someone can quickly dodge out of line of sight of an elemental, and it will run towards them, and then start casting. They get out of line of sight again, and it will run towards them and start casting. You can't line of sight a melee pet.
I'm not saying hunters don't have issues, but if you're going to claim line of sight, please admit that on that particular issue, mages are considerably worse.
However, I think the reason that hunters are in the 50% range is because they're such a popular class. Warriors are also popular, and they were pretty close to 100%, even though they're very strongly represented in arenas.
Nasgoul Mar 7th 2008 12:59PM
line of sight in the arena is the most rediculus thing ever... the worst situation is the the arena with the bridge and you can jump on the pillar and cast down, but you cannot be casted up on..
if we are trying to see who can win a stright up fight there should be no line of sight at all... no pillars or bridges or huge coffins where the little pillars on the corener break line of sight.... it should just be an open space... you think they would be smart enough to see this
matt Mar 7th 2008 1:15PM
LOS issues are similar between hunters and mages-- and both are underrepresented.
nathanechel Jul 15th 2008 3:58PM
I hate to say it, because I'm sure I'll sound slightly dumb, but I think the major reasons for the so called lackluster showing of hunters lies in two facts of hunter life.
1. When your on the move your dps is much much lower than when your stationary. while auto-attack (the melee one) works just fine on the move, auto-shot is a cast-meaning while moving we're not shooting. Yes, I know we can manage a sort of stutter walk, where stopping for a second at the right time allows a shot, but there it is. Even mages have the capacity to maintain respectable damage through arcane explosion on the run.
2. The duality of hunters. A hunter at range vs a hunter in melee is a complete animal; cat claw vs cat declawed. Damage a hunter's teammate from within melee only range of a hunter, and you force him/her into movement, placing that hunter squarely into problem number one.
Are these big enough problems to justify the lack of hunter representation? Dunno, suppose we'll wait til Wrath, see what the experts think.
ShuManFu Mar 6th 2008 9:28PM
lol.. water elemental... that's not a pet.. its like unleashing a shadow fiend
Zaringu Mar 6th 2008 9:46PM
This strikes me as, basically, asking to be able to shoot through solid walls. If anything, casters should get "wall penetration" as a talent before hunters. We (yes, "we") throw bolts of mystical energy free from the shackles of the mortal plain and you guys have. .arrows. Yeah, exactly. All in all, makes little to no sense. LoS is the defense from ranged weapons, always has been and always will be. If under fire, duck and cover. There's next to no chance that Blizz is going to go so far out of their way to unscrew the inscrutable. You guys honestly don't have it that bad. . you have steady instant cast dps with most of your shots beign instant cast. This is great for arenas. I, as an ele shaman, have one instant cast spell every 6 seconds costing 500 mana or more. Not bitching about my class, but 90% of my dps, even in arenas, requires me to stand still for 1.5 to 2.0 seconds to even shoot. . so there you silly hunters.
Stroglin Mar 7th 2008 5:56PM
"If anything, casters should get "wall penetration" as a talent before hunters. We (yes, "we") throw bolts of mystical energy free from the shackles of the mortal plain and you guys have. .arrows."
We use more than arrows.
Your class is not the only class that wields magical energies. Although it is not considered a spell, Arcane Shot isn't an Arrow either it is an Arcane Bolt. SO if mages get wall penetration then arcane shot should too.
lolatyou Mar 8th 2008 3:37AM
Have you played a hunter? Our only instant "casts" that do damage are Arcane Shot and Serpent Sting, both of which have cool downs.
Ugkul Mar 6th 2008 9:58PM
I want to be able to shoot around things like James McAvoy in Wanted.
ShuManFu Mar 6th 2008 9:58PM
To be honest,
I don't see what the problem is. I agree with Zaringu to a degree. I play lots of different classes Warlock, Warrior, Paladin, Shaman and a little nub Mage.
Every class has pros and cons. I know when I play my shaman i hate hunters, yeah he is resto... I say F&'%%% arcane shot all the time.
This article just reminded me why i liked to play Counterstrike with my deagle and pew pew head shots.
Slayblaze Mar 6th 2008 10:32PM
Head Shot should be one of the new hunter abilities in the 71-80 shots/stings category. Matter of fact, that opens up a whole new realm of possiblity. I mean why not? Hunters are masters of aiming, right? Its what they DO. Why not have a "Body Shot" that interupts casts, a "Leg Shot" that slows, a "Foot Shot" that snares, an "Arm Shot" that interupts other Shots, and a "Head Shot" that does like triple damage on a very low percent?
Oh and the "Groin Shot" that would totally incapacitate for X seconds or something...lol
Den Mar 6th 2008 9:58PM
I think a lot of hunters are haven't changed their play style a perfect example of how good you can be is this guy:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dragonmaw&n=Megatf
Aaron Gibson Mar 7th 2008 10:32AM
Well now he is grouped with the top classes for each arena, Warlock and Druid; hardly a fair comparison. I imagine all hunters could be in this spot.
Den Mar 7th 2008 10:16PM
It's a perfectly fair comparison, it is the way arena works - Counter Combos. A lot of people here are talking about how they want to be made better at killing things in arena, yet when played correctly (in a drain team) hunters are already a powerful class. I've played those exact combos my self, they're very effective and the hunter is a key member.
Besides every class has a specific team make up they should team with in order to be competitive: Rogue/Priest/Mage is another "strong combo"
Den Mar 7th 2008 10:16PM
It's a perfectly fair comparison, it is the way arena works - Counter Combos. A lot of people here are talking about how they want to be made better at killing things in arena, yet when played correctly (in a drain team) hunters are already a powerful class. I've played those exact combos my self, they're very effective and the hunter is a key member.
Besides every class has a specific team make up they should team with in order to be competitive: Rogue/Priest/Mage is another "strong combo"
ShuManFu Mar 6th 2008 11:12PM
@slayblaze
Wow...
that would be awesome. But the beauty of the headshot was the skill/practice that was needed to get the crosshairs on the little dot that was the person's head and timing the moment they ran out from around the corner.
It was skill.. not a roll of the dice .. well.. sorta..
People will be QQ about the 5 second arena matches though.. but it would be fun in bgs