Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsBringing magic and steel back to Warcraft
by Mike Schramm 
Mar 12th 2008 at 2:30PM
Alerinne starts an interesting conversation over on the forums about bringing WoW back into "Medieval Fantasy" -- swords and sorcery instead of alien Draenei and spaceships. Normally, the conversation about MMO genre runs along the lines of too much fantasy, but many players, it seems, would rather be running around with axes and fireballs rather than lasers and robots, especially in a world that is so akin to traditional fantasy (Orcs, Elves, and so on).To be fair, World of Warcraft has always had its own charms -- Dwarves have always been able to fire guns, something that's not usually in traditional fantasy, and even Goblins with their zeppelins (and Gnomes with their engineering) have always added a little extra flavor to the game that goes beyond purist fantasy. But it's true -- zones like Netherstorm and even Auchindoun go a little overboard for real fantasy fans.
So hopefully, as we hear in the thread, we'll see a little more traditional fantasy setting in Wrath of the Lich King. So far, lots of things we've seen there have had a bit of a Norse trend to them, from the Frozen Tundra to the Vykrul race found in the early zones. But there's more to this expansion that we haven't seen -- Icecrown Citadel is an old-fashioned ice fortress, according to the lore, and with the movement of Dalaran and the rumors of dragons up there, we definitely have a possibility of a return to the magic and steel that made this series so popular in the first place.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Expansions, Lore, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Medros Mar 12th 2008 3:45PM
So, if Icecrown is a old fashioned Ice Fortress... all we need is a few fire mages and warlocks, right?
Salty Mar 12th 2008 3:48PM
On the contrary - what set Wacraft II apart from all the other games in the RTS genere were battleships and cruisers, zeppelins and gyrocopters, submersibles, explosive goblin sappers, dwarven mortar teams, transport ships. In fact, War II was successful largely because of its naval elements and pioneering. So it has a very long history of 'technology' in the fantasy environ and in fact owes it much of its success.
True, the Naaru and their technology are clearly a stretch in a fantasy setting, but they are only one of the many denizens of Blizzard's universe. The blood elves have panicked in their addiction to magic and built an out-of-control industrial nightmare using high technology - which is really just huge magic-based machines. The only thing that sets that apart from traditional magic is that the magic is "manufactured" and harnessed by a machine built and sustained by many rather than wielded or channeled by a single entitity (Warlocks - portals) or inherent in a static environment (Karazhan - lay lines).
Some of those same themes are present in LotR. Tolkein flavored Saruman's contraptions as the infernal war machine - technology interfering in the natural order and backfiring.
In the end it's somebody else's brand and property. I've always thought of the Silithid as a long-lost splinter race of the Zerg and Draeni as another incarnation of the Protoss race. While the two are physically much different, the progenitor race in Starcraft (the guys that travel the universe ordering worlds... sound familiar?) abandoned the Protoss to move on once they began to squander their natural perfection. I almost want to look 5 years ahead when Blizzard may be grappling for new ideas and see the cinematic with some Draeni chopping wood in a forrest when a meteor falls in the forrest, he runs out to meet what he thinks is an Infernal but finds a crash-landed Protoss observatory. The Protoss emerges from the ship, the Draeni makes some ancestral greeting sign and the Protoss returns the oddly familiar gesture.
Candina@WH Mar 12th 2008 3:57PM
WoW has balance, range and depth. The fact that they can introduce remote control tonks and harvest threshers WITHOUT breaking the whole feel of the game exposes WoWs true strength.
The lore is elastic. It has a strong central theme and history. Strong and consistent art direction. And there is still room within the whole for space ships, crystal entities, giant constructs, and flying zeppelins. The amazing part is that we don't feel that a crystal powered, space ship flying alien somehow 'breaks' the game balance.
I mean, if Captain Kirk and his jolly band of red shirts landed in durotar, his phasers would be set on roast Orc cutlets. And i don't give a fig what your Def rating is, a phaser will turn you into instant goo.
But the Dranei? They are still limited by steel and magic, just like the rest of us.
Except for the goblin death ray. that can go away ;-).
Felwrathe Mar 12th 2008 3:59PM
I have to agree with this sentiment.
I understand that from WC2 on there's been a storyline loosely revolving around how the Eredar built the world and the Burning Legion screwed it over, but do we really have to crash-land a bunch of alien dudes with a weird planet in the sky? Seems like a bit much just to add new races and different zones.
Keep it simple, IMO. Add an island off the coast of the mainlands [like Northrend] and add more fantasy races. I'm not saying bring in the Iksar and Frogloks, but something a bit more believable in a fantasy environment.
LASERS BELONG IN STARCRAFT.
mirilene Mar 12th 2008 4:08PM
The problem isnt that the Exodar is a "space ship" and is out of place in warcraft. The problem is with every twit that thinks it IS a space ship.
Its a floating city that used magic to teleport itself from one planet to another, no different than how Dalaran will float in northeren or the Lich King's necropolii float over azeroth.
Everyone always overlooks that the horde CAME from another planet. Through a stargate, for all intents and purposes.
All the lore of WoW certainly wasnt as developed during WC2, but there were quite clearly sci-fi/fantasy influences in the best traditions of star wars and star trek. People need to quit piling up so many expectations on a universe they didnt invent.
ElCoronel Mar 12th 2008 4:01PM
I do prefer 'traditional' fantasy as well but someone said variety is the spice of life. How boring would Outlands have been if it was just like another Azeroth? And would it have felt like you had really gone anywhere? It's supposed to be shattered seperate world floating out there in Nether, why should it be just like Azeroth? As a hunter, it would have sucked to come back from Outlands with another bear instead of my scary ravager.
Pingmeister Mar 12th 2008 4:01PM
While I agree with the heart of the article I also really enjoy things like the Consortium, which likely wold not be there without the Sci-Fi element added. Especially their
I suppose I am happy that they are willing to stretch the genres to add new content. As long as I get to explore interesting new areas and things I am happy.
I just love the Consortium!
Milktub Mar 12th 2008 4:17PM
It's all something that takes getting used to. My fantasy game background was playing Final Fantasy on the old NES. Very much classic fantasy ... until the flying machine.
Same thing with FF2. Classic, but with a flying machine.
Then FF3 with robots and lasers ... at first it was too much. But the story explained it, that the technology was something enabled by the essense of magic (or something like that).
WoW is doing something similar ... I guess. The tech is there, but it's there for a reason.
Cyrus Mar 12th 2008 5:33PM
"War II was successful largely because of its naval elements and pioneering."
Agreed. In fact, that's something I'd really like to see more of in WoW. When do we get to go to Kul Tiras or other naval powers? What's the goblin homeland of Undermine like? Do the naga have any actual architecture of their own under the Maelstrom instead of just scavenging through elvish ruins?
"How exactly is Auchindoun outside the realm of traditional fantasy? It's a bone waste filled with ghosts..."
Well, the Mana-Tombs are full of ethereal technology and stuff. More generally, Auchindoun is just a gloomier, grimmer version of the draenei architecture, with the glowing crystals and arching walls.
There are lots of things I would have done differently in Outland, but most of them are just about instance design. Too science fiction-y? No more so than Gnomeregan or the previous games, I think.
In fact, I'd much prefer technological solutions for many game issues. When the blood elves set up the translocation orbs so anyone can go from the Undercity to Quel'thalas instantly, it cheapens the magic — what's the point of a mage's teleport spell if anyone can do it just as easily? A zeppelin from the Undercity to Stranglethorn, on the other hand, actually is the kind of thing anyone could ride. It makes more sense. So bring on more technology for stuff like that.
Ircasha Mar 12th 2008 4:38PM
WoW has always been a steampunk setting from the beginning (having been inspired by the Warhammer Fantasy setting, among others). I've always liked the balance of technologies they introduced into the game, including TBC, even though I thought the SciFi elements were a bit overdone.
That being said, I would be happy to return to a less SciFi inspired setting for awhile. From what I've seen of WotLK so far, it seems much more focused on traditional fantasy setting elements.
At some point I'm hoping for something exploring the Lovecraftian elements of the game a bit more.
Murenius Mar 12th 2008 5:04PM
I like the non-standard stuff. There is more than enough boring fantasy stuff out there and anything that makes the genre more interesting is more than welcome. I have played way too many games with friendly elves and evil orcs to be thrilled by all those Tolkien rip-offs.
Elmo Mar 12th 2008 5:17PM
I do agree.
WotLK has to go back to the medieval atmosphere and it probably will.
however I do think Draenei deserve a spot in WoW as long as it stays 1 race.
after all the orcs, ogres and the entire burning legion are not native to Azeroth either,
an ancient ally from the very source of the problem in the ever on-going battle against the burning legion with 'other worldly' architecture and technology do deserve a place.
mattarin Mar 12th 2008 5:20PM
this games needs more expolsions, rocket launchers, machine guns and hookers.
Elmo Mar 12th 2008 5:26PM
I'd like to add that I do think they chose a good theme for BC
after all it IS another planet. of course it has to look different from Azeroth. maybe they topped it a bit with Tempest Keep but the explaination (a teleporting floating citadel) was good enough for me.
the crash thing is where it went wrong. it would have been better if they just teleported properly to Azeroth but that wouldn't have scarred the starting area that much.
but everything on Azeroth (except Azure and Bloodmyst sice it's a crashsite) has to feel a bit gothic or at least medieval
Clem Mar 12th 2008 6:37PM
The problem with sci-fi elements is that they just don’t fit into high-fantasy. A little girl with a .09mm Glock could blow away Arthas or your level 70 Warlock. A Taliban terrorist with a shoulder-launched stinger missile would make quick work of Onyxia.
And, are you trying to tell me that individuals can fly around on helicopters, or that Ironforge can launch prop planes every five minutes, but no one has yet thought of employing these machines to transport huge armies and war machines to capital cities? Or how about mounting firearms on the helicopter and launching raids on the enemy base in Warsong Gulch? Flying all the way over Alterec Valley and just bombing the enemy general’s HQ?
These tech elements are jarring in a fantasy setting.
Michel Mar 12th 2008 7:13PM
I disagree
Wow is _Fantasy_
and outland was great fantasy, with new ideas, bold styles and a sense of "an other world"
Naruu and Etherian are well made and welcomed changes from typical crazy elves
Titans are "metallic being" from old warcraft lore.
Wc2 already got planes and orcs traveling by stars portals (magical or not, what the differences? it's a stargate ! or a nethergate if you want)
Northend will be great and interesting, but not because it's "traditional fantasy" (traditional = dungeons and dragons ?) but because it will have great artworks, surely some little nice twists and blue dragons :)
--
LOTR , the books, the Tolkien's works have also some "not typical tolkien fantasy stuff" (yes yes, people all thinks Tolkien only put dwarf and sword in its works)
for example, if you read carefully, the Evil in lord of the rings is industrious : Sauron and Saruman used machines. but Morgoth (in texts as silmarillon or drafts in History of Middle-earth) is even more than that.
there are also Oliphants, very wonderful land like Valimar, Trees of light, Giant spider from the deep of the world and music.
Ayl Mar 12th 2008 10:06PM
I don't really have a problem with Outland or the Draenei. I think its a cool change in direction for an expansion, and really explores an "alien" world.
But personally, I am not a fan of the new gear that has come out of the expansion. Especially as a Paladin, I don't appreciate everything being covered in floating Neon-Colored crystal shards.
I rolled a Paladin so I could be a knight in shining armor, but it seems like the style of gear keeps trying to turn us into a transformer or robo-cop.
Big boo for all the goofy maces that look like Cotton Candy or Bubble Gum, and all the shields that look like expensive jewlery then defensive gear.
Stormscape Mar 12th 2008 10:36PM
I think all the "high fantasy" purists are clinging to the past, in more ways than one.
Netherstorm is the most awesome atmospheric zone, IMO. People need to stop and remember that all the new "technology" in TBC is in fact magic based, and what's more, it MAKES SENSE for civilizations to advance beyond simple talismans into true magical technology, such as the Legion, The Ethereals, and the Draenei and Blood Elves possess.
Nothing could be LESS out of place than the Eco-Dome's in netherstorm, or the Draenei crashing on azeroth in the paladin version of a necropolis. After all, IN WARCRAFT ONE, the orcs came to azeroth through a freakin' STARGATE.
You can go back all the way to Zin-Azshari before the sundering when the night elves lived in a magically-technilogical civilzation as advanced as anything we've seen lately.
If your definition of high fantasy is "primitive" warcraft, NEVER WAS high fantasy. Quit clinging to the past, both in-world, and out.
Solex Mar 15th 2008 12:41PM
I'm kind of hoping for a crazy D and D 80's hair metal style Northrend, lots of crazy fights where you're fighting absolutely huge dragons and yetties and wookies or whatever, less flashy gear and more battle hardened plate covered in viscious spikes and ghostly casters with glowing eyes and so on.
Zegim Mar 13th 2008 1:33AM
I actually like all the futursitic looking elements in WoW. Remind me of the sci-fi stuff that was present in the huge Urza saga from M:tG.