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3-13-2008 @ 2:41PM
I couldn't agree more about the overall state of tanking today. I play a prot pally and I still think that warriors should be the primary tanks on big bosses. Paladins should be trash tanks, Druids OT for hard hitters, and warriors MT on bosses. That's the way we're all built. In the right gear, I can tank almost any boss in the game, as can a druid or warrior. But should I? No. A place for everything and everything in its place. This si the kind of discussion we need about tanking, and I applaud you for it.No tanks need to be nerfed to compensate. Prot warrior rage needs to be fixed. Druid itemization needs to be fixed. Paladin stat allocation needs to be fixed. You don't use a lawnmower to chop down a tree. Technically you could, but a chainsaw works a lot better. You also wouldn't want to use that chainsaw to cut the grass. I have no problem with each tank class being pigeonholed into their specific TANKING role, as long as they are fixed to allow them to be able to contribute more when not doing their defined job. Druids get to be kitties during trash when the paladin is tanking. Paladins get to be healers or add tanks on bosses when the warriors are tanking and the druids are OTing. What do prot warriors get to do? That's the real problem. Defense rating needs to contribute to attack power and passive rage generation so warriors can dps and get started faster when tanking.Good article. Your perspective on other classes is a little bit skewed, but not overly, and you admit it up front. Again, good article.
3-13-2008 @ 2:52PM
"Paladins should be trash tanks, Druids OT for hard hitters, and warriors MT on bosses. That's the way we're all built. In the right gear, I can tank almost any boss in the game, as can a druid or warrior. But should I? No. A place for everything and everything in its place. This si the kind of discussion we need about tanking, and I applaud you for it.."you're full of it. why shouldn't they tank bosses? i watch our MT prot pally going to town in SSC, why shouldn't they or a druid do it too? warriors aren't the "main" tank anymore. seriously. get over yourselves. true, they need to fix a few things for druids at t6 level, but that is on blizzard to fix.
3-13-2008 @ 3:08PM
Did you miss the part where I'm a tankadin? Of course we can tank bosses, I do it all the time. That doesn't mean we're built for it, and warriors specifically ARE. I just don't have a chip on my shoulder about how "Anything you can do I can do better." Unless, of course, the warriors start shouting us down. An equivalently geared warrior has higher survivability and more panic buttons on bosses, that's a simple fact. Paladins are built to take tons of small hits, not few big ones. Our threat generations is gimped on those fights, and we have to stack spell damage instead of stam to hold threat, making our survivability even lower.True, warriors aren't the MAIN tank anymore for most content. But they ARE the FIRST choice boss tank in the current end-game. Their usefulness needs to be extended to earlier content. We tankadins have allowed our capabilities to go to our head and now YOU are saying the exact same thing to the warriors that they said to us for so long: "Move over and let a REAL tank handle this." Come down off your high horse and realize that every spec NEEDS its situational usefulness. If paladins become the premier tanking class on ALL content, prot warriors will disappear. They are already a dying breed. Matthew brought up RoS. What are you going to do when you guys move past SSC into BT and you have no prot warriors? Has he tanked Kael yet? Yeah, it can be done by a paladin, but you get exactly one shot per hour, and you have to have more interrupts in your melee/ Why not use a warrior and take as many tries as you like?You need to realize that you, like warlocks, are getting a little full of yourself because of how good you are at your job due to the game mechanics. I bet you are thrilled every time a new fear nerf is announced. But buff warriors where they might be allowed to do the job that was theirs since LAUNCH? "NO NO NO IT'S OUR JOB NOW! GO BACK TO THE ARENA!"Time to wake up and smell the team unity, arrogant tankadins. Learn what we do best, do it better than anyone, and let the others do what they do best, or Blizzard WILL pull out the nerf bat and make us worse at our specialty.
3-13-2008 @ 3:44PM
"Did you miss the part where I'm a tankadin? Of course we can tank bosses, I do it all the time. That doesn't mean we're built for it, and warriors specifically ARE"they are built for it though. are you seriously saying a slight 2-3% increased damage intake after ardent defender and a longer cool down on Lay on Hands are reasons to use a warrior over a paladin? not to mention that most well-geared paladins have more health the warriors now since the 2.3 patch. even a prot paladin's gear is changing to adapt to this. you're not seeing as much block on their new 2.4 leggings because they're expected to MT now.http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34946and current gear:http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33524http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33522dodge, baby. go AoE with gear like that and tell me how you do.
3-13-2008 @ 3:49PM
""Move over and let a REAL tank handle this."i didn't say this. i said that there is no reason a pally or druid can tank end-game content now. we're all an equal team. in your version of this story though, a bear or pally can't perform as well and shouldn't do it
3-13-2008 @ 3:52PM
LOL. Learn your class. I'll do just fine with lots of dodge on AoE pulls. They eat 8 charges of holy shield in the first two seconds anyway. I'd prefer dodge to limit damage. Tankadin threat is primarily generated by consecration, on AoE and boss fights. Consecration gets the full benefit of spell damage, with no limit to the number of mobs it hits. Ideally, I would AoE tank with 100% dodge and 1000 spell damage.
3-13-2008 @ 3:55PM
And you're absolutely right, I do believe that tankadins and bears aren't as good on big bosses and shouldn't do it IF A PROT WARRIOR IS AVAILABLE. CAN they do it? Yes. SHOULD they do it? Only if the specialist isn't there.
3-13-2008 @ 4:13PM
"i didn't say this. i said that there is no reason a pally or druid can tank end-game content now. we're all an equal team. in your version of this story though, a bear or pally can't perform as well and shouldn't do it"typo, i meant:there is no reason a pally or druid CAN'T tank end-game contentonly a high-grade moron of a pally-tank would stack a ton of dodge for AoE tanking. seriously. go tank your heroics or whatever you off-tank and god-speed, but don't pull gruul or a boss in SSC with that high-block set and think you're going to live long.there is no specialist anymore my trolly friend. i'm sorry. you typing everything in all-caps isn't going to change that. bears and pallys can MT.
3-13-2008 @ 4:37PM
Again, you can't even make a consistent argument. Dodge is exceptional for AoE tanking. Consecration is more than enough threat for AoE pulls, unless you are geared with no spell damage. Dodge limits incoming damage on AoE pulls, too, not just boss fights. I'm not sure what high-block set you're referring to, since I have not even mentioned block, but since you brought it up, your block set should sit in the bank until you can tell the difference between AoE TANKING and AoE FARMING. One is about holding threat and limiting damage. The other is about doing damage. BTW, I use caps so you can see the important parts of the argument more easily, since you clearly have problems with reading comprehension on your own.
3-13-2008 @ 4:58PM
"Dodge is exceptional for AoE tanking"it isn't by itself. it's certainly necessary, but you want to stack a lot of block if you're AoE tanking, OTing, or farming.i'm guessing you haven't had a pally MT any raid bosses and don't know what they use gear-wise. my point was that my comment on pally gear is that it is starting to resemble warrior MT gear. good job of ignoring that altogether. keep attacking me and going more and more off topic. i'm sorry your guild or RL won't let you MT any raid bosses, because i've seen it done, week after week on a pally.long live the tank teams that consist of warriors, pallys and bears and allows any one of them to tank the boss.
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