Blood Pact: Warlocks are red, mages are blue

Between Arenas, V'Ming spends his time as a lock laughing ominously in AV, tanking Olm with his own minions and pondering troll fashion from Zul'Aman. He's recently started to plumb the depths of SSC with his 0/21/40 build and bragging about 8k shadow bolts.
One of the most enduring and fiercest rivalries in WoW is the bitterness between mages and warlocks. I'll like to characterize my relationship with Mage friends to be one of friendly, respectful rivalry. In fact, Christian Belt - our Mage columnist - will be my guest here today to offer his side of the story in beautiful italics.
By now, many mage players would have dabbled in at least a little warlocky DoT-slinging, and the converse is probably true. If you haven't, go on - roll a Mage or a Warlock, I'll wait.
So there really isn't any grounds for misconceptions when it comes to the abilities of both classes, and we should all live in contented peace. Or is there?
"If we're supposed to be [insert perceived role], how come we [insert list of why mages "suck"]. Why do warlocks have [insert list of why locks "pwn"] that we should have?!!?"
There is a whole lot of whine here. As it stands, warlocks generally do deliver more DPS, especially in longer encounters. But if your guild blindly equates DPS to raid performance, then get a new guild. Can't you guys focus on the utility you do bring to a group - buffs, food/water, and the best darn CC in the game?
Let's imagine a WoW where mages consistently out-dpsed warlocks, where would that put warlocks then? In fact, pre-BC WoW was very much like that, and with limited debuff slots then, warlocks were generally not wanted in raids. In my opinion, the non-DPS utility of mages is greater than that of warlocks - ask any healer, what do they prefer? Food/water and int buff from a Mage, or Blood Pact, healthstone and maybe soulstone from a lock? When it comes to CC for humanoids and beasts, mages are simply the best and most reliable. Many players still do not trust Seduction as a form of CC even after three years of WoW!
Christian: We whine a lot, I know. And you think our tears taste delicious. Our Utility in raids is nice, especially now that we can summon magical cake-stands from heaven. And I agree that your raid shouldn't be measuring the skill of a DPS character by the numbers on a damage meter. If the Rogue is on top of the damage meter but keeps stealing aggro from the tank, is that skill, or incompetence? The problem lies in the perception among Mages--the one we had when we picked the class at the character creation screen--that "Mage" should be synonymous with "DPS." Blizzard has said on several occasions that Mages are intended to be the best nukers in the game, and we simply aren't, and you better believe that displeases us. Give us back our role.
Well, maybe it's time for mages to snap out of their pre-BC mindset: you are simply not the king of the DPS hill anymore. In fact, Blizzard stated at Blizzcon in no uncertain terms that rogues will be best at single-target DPS and mages will be "AoE kings". In other words, how the DPS charts shape out depends a lot on encounters, and warlocks find our DPS niche with DoTs and mana sustainability.
Unfortunately, current cloth itemization also seems to send warlocks, mages and sometimes shadowpriests, on a collision course. There's little differentiation between clothie DPS gear. Generally, I pass on all DPS gear that have a smidgen of MP5 on it. Warlocks should also really defer high-Spirit pieces to the more mana-reliant classes.
Christian: It's incredibly hard not to resent Warlocks when we have the same role in both PvP and PvE (that of DPS/CC) and yet have to compete for the same gear. Tell you what, you can have the Shiny Purple Dress of Casterificness that just dropped, if I can have your Felhound. That sounds fair.
The "failure" of mages in Arenas is also a huge talking point. While the class is under-represented in the smaller Arena brackets, I wouldn't go as far as to call mages "failures", especially in comparison to shamans and hunters. As it stands, a large part of the rivalry stems from warlocks generally destroying mages in PvP. But true to the rock/paper/scissors nature of WoW PvP, mages have a much better time against warriors and rogues than warlocks ever will. If you play a Mage, STOP picking fights with warlocks, and get your teammates to shut them down before they get to you. Or is teamwork a concept that is unheard of?
Christian: You typed all that while casting six DoTs on me, fearing me in the middle of a cast, healing all the damage from my 6 second Pyroblast with one instant Healthstone, and making a turkey sandwich, right? Seriously, PvP against a Warlock is ridiculous for a Mage, we can both agree on that. Yes, there are counterclasses to every class in the game, but why make one cloth DPS caster class so disproportionately more powerful than another?
We both have the same function, hurling flaming death from the back row, and yet Warlocks get a pet to tank for them (and in the case of a felhound, eat my buffs and silence me repeatedly) multiple ridiculous survivability options, a CC that allows them to continue to DPS without breaking it, and a way to drain my mana pool and use it for their own. That's not a counterclass, that's a slap in the face. It's as if Blizzard decided that at 70 they'd have two main DPS caster classes, a good one and a super-freaking-awesome one. You guess which ones Mages are.
I'm sorry that the perceived power gap is so wide, but mages should find something to rejoice in with Kalgan's reassurance that you folks haven't been forgotten. He went on to say, ""Mages will get new abilities in the expansion too, believe it or not. In fact, we intend to tone down how strong of a counter Warlocks are to Mages through the WotLK spells/talents."
And believe it or not, as a career Warlock, I am looking forward to "fairer" fights with mages as well.
In short, I think mages are QQing disproportionately to the seriousness of the problem, simply because many have been so used to measure their "performance" by their position on the damage meters, and losing sight of what they do bring to the table.
Christian: Mages do sometimes lose sight of the big picture. We judge our own worth too often in comparison to another class. Should the fact that Warlocks perform our own role in superior fashion lessen our value? No. But does it? Sadly, yes. This isn't elementary school, where everybody is special in their own special way and nobody is any better than anybody else. This is a game in which high-end content demands roles be filled. When a class fills a specific role better than another class, they win, and the other class loses. Just ask Shamans. The superior class will get more raid invites, and better PvP gear. In short, Warlocks have more value than Mages in WoW, and that's a cold, hard fact. Hence, the QQing.
*Gasp* Christian, are we agreeing? As long as WoW exists, mages and warlocks will continue to compete for raid spots, gear and girls. Even when the PvP gap is reduced or - heavens forbid! - reversed, these two classes will continue to agree to disagree. Afterall, according to WoWWiki, warlocks were mages who abandoned their studies of the Arcane to delve into Shadow magic for the pursuit of more power. And maybe that's really why mages can't stand warlocks.
Christian: I like what you wrote, it makes me hate Warlocks less. Sort of. Ok I still hate Warlocks. But now I hate them with a begrudged respect.
Filed under: (Warlock) Blood Pact, Mage, Warlock, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Raiding






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Theserene Mar 14th 2008 6:07PM
I've found it hard to get a DPS slot in PuGs as a warlock as invariably people prefer a mage for their superior crowd control abilities.
And I am completely fine with all of it. There is no one class that is excellent at everything.
Azrof Mar 14th 2008 6:35PM
I'm disappointed that you've forgotten several key points in the Warlock/Mage debate. I shall elucidate for you:
1: The best PVP spec for Warlock is SL/SL. SL/SL arguably is significantly less efficient at grinding and questing and High-End PVE. The best PVE spec for a Warlock is Destruction which throws away much of the dotting, CC and health regeneration of an affliction-based warlock. In effect, when we become high powered mages, we sacrifice our other versatility. Mages do not.
2: Fire, Arcane and Ice spec mages all have some viability in any arena, PVE/PVP or grinding - only the playstyle varies. Like a warrior or a paladin, in order to do something with a significant improvement, our talents are key.
3: When a mage hits a creature with a spell, the creature is tagged; it is, in effect "his" kill. Dots don't tag a creature immediately.
4: One of the biggest arguments against warlocks assumes the warlock is Affliction AND SL/SL. If you see alot of DOTs up, you're facing an Affliction lock. That means relatively low hit points and survivability. Also, as a bonus, even if a DOT kills you (and that's an affliction lock's primary method of doing so), if you kill the warlock first...*the warlock gains no benefit*.
5: Utility for mages includes higher degrees of CC, personal protection (frost nova, blink, the all-powerful bubble of Ice Block, which removes all DOTS, even the "un-removable 41 point unstable affliction), whereas Warlocks rely on having the *correct* pet out for a given circumstance. Admittedly having the ability to choose a pet does evolve our class, and I would argue that ANY class with a pet gleans more benefit than classes without them, there is still some degree of additional insight and skill associated in pet selection and use.
Do Warlocks out DPS mages? In *many* circumstances; but as a member of an Illidan-downing guild, the differences are relatively small (1-3% usually) and for maintaining their versatility, mages are getting a good deal over Destro-Speccing Warlocks.
Do Warlocks have unfair advantages over Mages? In *some ways* yes. Blizzard has made Warlocks soft tanks...which unbalances them against classes with similar roles.
But the divide is not what some make it out to be, nor do I feel that the WowInsider representative adequately portrays the fact that Warlocks are currently the most-often nerfed, least-often "tweaked" class in the game right now.
Thanks.
Theserene Mar 14th 2008 6:38PM
No I have not forgotten them, I just don't see them as relevant to my point.
I don't play PvP, there are things mages do better than me as my warlock and there are some things I do better than them.
I have similar reactions when people complain about things that men can do better than women etc, it is just not worth crying over.
Nick S Mar 14th 2008 6:41PM
"2: Fire, Arcane and Ice spec mages all have some viability in any arena, PVE/PVP or grinding - only the playstyle varies."
A laughable assertion.
Azrof Mar 14th 2008 6:46PM
My fire mage does well in PVE and PVP. As Frost my mage does extremely well in PVP and PVE. Not as fast as a Warlock, and not without drinking regularly (which is one area I find the mage sadly weak), but he can do it. When I went Arcane, some time ago, the sustainability of the class went much higher, even if the PVP viability as pure Arcane shrank.
I'd be interested in hearing you elaborate on your comment.
Nick S Mar 14th 2008 7:17PM
i've done arena as fire, frost, and arcane, and frost is the only viable spec if your goal is to increase your arena rating. there are gimmick team builds that incorporate fire or arcane mages with some limited success, but any team paying attention is going to see fire/arcane spells and immediately smoosh you like a bug.
my dps varies by 15% when i respec from world-pve frost to raid-pve frost, a difference of perhaps 10 talent points... spec makes a huge, obvious difference to mages, just as much as to warlocks. yes, a destro warlock might look a little silly in the arenas, but the core fear/dot/pet mechanics remain in place, albeit nerfed. it's the same for mages. not speccing for ice barrier doesn't make you worthless in arenas, but without it i would argue that you are not "viable".
Azrof Mar 14th 2008 7:25PM
I cede that you do have points - however, remember that fear is dispellable and removable by multiple classes and means, and that our dots are far less viable as destro because they are not instant (save for Curse of Agony). Keep in mind that DOTs are impressive, even frustrating, but their damage over time is entirely removable at any point, resulting in a (if affliction) PVP spec that scales far lower than a mage's instant damage, even including their DOT abilities as fire.
I'd say this - Mages desperately need more sustainability in any spec for grinding and PVE without having to expend resources.
In PVP however, the distance between the two classes would be mitigated, or obliterated if a Mage could banish, or somehow entirely CC the Warlock pet.
At the same time...Blizzard is Aware and Acknowledges these differences. Warlocks have yet to have their multiple useless talents reviewed, other than to nerf their CC abilities.
fLUx Mar 14th 2008 11:42PM
@Azrof: You sir, explained that brilliantly.
I am currently stuck between 3 worlds - farming/daily quests, PvP, and heroics and soon some kara.
Now, I should really have affliction for farming/questing, SL/SL for PvP, and Destro for instances/raids.
All can do the job, but each does better at one job than it does at another. If you see a SL/SL lock in PvP *he has sacrificed PvE for that*, no raid leader would accept a SL/SL lock into a raid if they knew what the spec meant.
Where as it seems (and this is just going from what i have read), a mage (i.e. frost), can do great in PvP (hello....iceblock, wtf?! :P), and just as good in PvE raiding.
Warlocks, IMO, and no where near "OP", we can be imba if your comparing to other casters, but being SL/SL doesn't mean we get 1million more health, and 1billion armor, we can still be killed, alot more than another class could be.
Weisheng Mar 15th 2008 1:42AM
@Azrof
Just like locks have to respec for PvP and PvE, so do mages. Arcane and fire are simply not viable in PvP - PoM/pyro is useless thanks to resilience and fire mages have very poor survivability. Even as a frost mage, I have to respec constantly between PvP and PvE. We need Improved Counterspell from the arcane tree for PvP (it's the only way we can even remotely attempt to kill a resto druid) and we have to go deeper into the frost tree in PvE for threat and mana efficiency talents. Most raiding mages are deep fire and they also have to respec when doing arena. Mages are not as versatile as you purport them to be.
And I doubt tagging a creature is the most important aspect to class balance. Please don't even begin to compare grinding on a warlock and grinding on a mage. With life tap and drain life, locks don't even have to sit for a drink. Mages go oom after several pulls and need constant downtime to replenish mana.
As for your point on DoTs, I think you should appreciate the fact that a warlock continues to do damage even when he's dead in PvP and can sometimes even deal the killing blow in arena even after going down. So the warlock's team does in fact benefit even after he has died. Not to mention they're instant casts that allow you to use LoS as an effective defence. LoS effectively kills mages.
I agree that polymorph is a very powerful form of CC in PvE, but I don't think any other class would want a CC that breaks on damage and heals the enemy to full health in PvP. Not to mention its duration in PvP is the same as that of fear, which incidentally doesn't break on damage, and is also subject to diminishing returns. Ice block removes all DoTs but you can reapply all those DoTs after it expires and the Hypothermia debuff allows your DoTs to do considerable damage then as the mage cannot ice block again immediately after. Ice block is not as powerful as you think it is, it merely delays the inevitable. And it's not an invulnerable ability either, priests are able to mass dispel it.
And a warlock's ability to "tank" certain encounters is just mind-boggling from a mage's perspective. I think Blizz created the Krosh encounter so that they'd have an example where mages could "tank".
Azrof Mar 15th 2008 1:47PM
@Weisheng
Good points sir.
I won't dispute that what you say makes sense, nor will I cede that what I have said is inviolate because of your points. I will, however point out that in arenas.....time matters. As little as 3 seconds can make a huge difference.
Ever had two mages POM Fireball you for 8k each? Difficult to survive or even respond to.
Weisheng Mar 15th 2008 2:30PM
Azrof, you're right time makes a difference and that's also partly why mages struggle in arena because their main damage spell requires cast time. It does take an inordinate amount of skill and reaction time to actually get burst damage off as a mage compared to some other classes since we can't kite. I myself really struggle to get any damage off in the chaos that is arena and hats off to those mages who actually manage to get into high brackets. One thing I've noticed on my server though is most of the mages who are in high brackets are in high-end raiding guilds, so they started off with a gear advantage by having T5/T6 in the lower brackets and are able to swap those out for S3 by the time they get into the higher brackets.
You're right, 8k PoM/Pyros used to be possible and there was also the ignite DoTs that would proc when it crit haha! Unfortunately, the main thrust of damage from PoM/Pyro comes from having a big crit and then proccing ignite and this has been largely negated by resilience. In fact, I laugh at arcane mages who PoM/Pyro me now in battlegrounds because with high resilience and ice barrier, I hardly take any damage from a non-crit pyro.
Post-BC, the only way for a mage to get burst damage is to use shatter when the enemy is frost novaed, either with a Icy Veins-hasted frostbolt/ice lance combo or repeated ice lances. This combo is very difficult to pull off since most players trinket out or dispel nova almost immediately and some are even immune to it - Cloak of Shadows, The Beast Within :( Once the nova is removed, we basically output very little burst damage as our main nuke, frostbolt, is easily interrupted either by attacks or simply having a pet constantly on us.
Weisheng Mar 15th 2008 2:30PM
That said, I do miss the days when things were simpler with just battlegrounds and each class had its own overpowered ability. Even if you were instantly killed, you could quite easily res and run back almost immediately :) Obviously, I don't miss the old honour system but now to survive in PvP, even battlegrounds and world PvP, are dependant on having arena gear. It's sad how PvP, which was meant to be a casual and fun pursuit you could do at your own time unlike raiding, is moving towards becoming an e-sport and overly competitive.
Havitech Mar 14th 2008 6:13PM
I apologize on behalf of my class for the enormous cry baby presence in our forums. There are some valid complaints here and there (is there any class that couldn't use some improvement?) but most of it boils down to people needing to L2play.
Nick S Mar 14th 2008 6:28PM
the L2Play factor is huge - i play a frost mage, and i regularly beat out better-geared warlocks and fire mages on the damage charts. why? cuz i realized my class was a little bit nerfed and learned2play. the screaming of supposedly-better warlocks who can't catch me on the DPS meters is sweet, sweet music to my ears. :-)
yes, warlocks have a mathematical advantage in longer fights, and *OMG* they're better in arenas and pvp in general, but knowing how to play a mage will make up for a lot of that disparity... even if knowing how to play means knowing your rogue needs to be giving the what-for to the other team's warlock before you leave your pillar hiding spot.
http://stayinfrosty.blogspot.com/
amasen Mar 14th 2008 7:16PM
The problem in the big debate of warlock vs. mage comes down to utility and damage.
Both warlocks and mages do good damage.
Warlocks have much much less downtime and they require no mana pots to keep up their very high dps.
Because of the above point, mages are actually NOT the king of AoE. Mage Aoe Consists of 2 ranged AoE spells, and 2 melee AoE spells (3 if talented). The problem for almost any raid encounter is melee AoE is not viable as it will get you killed. The ranged AoE has some use but in the end will OOM a mage so quickly that they will be completely useless for the remainder of the fight.
So to Recap, warlocks took the Mage job of AoE with one spell that mixed with their class mechanic of Life Tap has completely usurped the Mages position as King of AoE. Mix this with the fact that warlocks outlast Mages and can constantly put out equivalent damage and offer more raid utility than a Mage due to the fact only 1 Mage is needed to supply CC/Food/AI/Portals while stacked warlocks Provide Group stamina buffs via imps and soulstones.
Azrof Mar 14th 2008 7:18PM
Mages in my guild - particularly in Hijal do as well, or better, than Warlocks with AOE without dying. Your point is valid at lower gear and skill levels, however, and I agree. I'd almost say that Seed of Corruption and Arcane Explosion should be swapped...but an instant cast AOE would put Warlocks over the top.
sirotrax Mar 14th 2008 6:24PM
Warlocks are for dps.
Mages are for:
http://www.25pixels.com/wowvideos/keyboard-mages.jpg
sirotrax Mar 14th 2008 6:25PM
I don't know why, but it didn't post what I said after the url.
"
sirotrax Mar 14th 2008 6:26PM
"I jest. I do think mages, as masters of magic, should really be the leading magic damage dealers."
I fail.
Nick S Mar 14th 2008 6:31PM
yep. :-)