Hybrid Theory: Itemization, Patch 2.4 and beyond!
by Alex Ziebart 
Mar 22nd 2008 at 11:00AM
So instead of filling your browser with loot links and badge prices, I'm going to talk about the future of itemization, from patch 2.4 and onward.
"We do plan to have more specs share some loot. I know it's great when the Retribution-Paladin piece drops, but that's a piece that isn't good for 26 other classes/specs, so hopefully we can make it so the item will apply to more classes/specs so even the randomness of loot won't be so much of a big deal."
-Bornakk on Wrath of the Lich King
This cannot come soon enough. The complications of the class changes this might require aside, when such a time comes, I will be a happy man. Patch 2.4 brings a very wide variety of new loot, in the form of badge gear, dropped loot and crafted gear. It seems as if an active effort was made to touch on every single talent spec combination in the game. Some may have a lower representation than others and some attempts missed their mark, but the effort was there and we can already see some of those changes in their early stages.
Don't get me wrong when I say they 'missed the mark', 2.4 has something for everyone. Even if things aren't itemized as perfectly as we'd like, there is something there for you from badges, especially those of you who don't raid. The Elemental Shaman gear lacks the Spell Crit that fuels their longevity, but that isn't something that will break this gear for those exploring sub-T6 content. It's still quite good.
Obviously, what Blizzard will do is what Blizzard will do, but I think there's some pretty strong speculation that we can do as far as what could be coming in Wrath. They're far smarter than I, but some seemingly simple things could be done. For one, Enhancement Shaman currently receive quite a bit of Crit from Agility, but no Attack Power. While there's some crossover with Hunter gear and Shaman gear, in most cases they will not be wearing the same things. Should Shaman be given a bonus to AP from Agility, I think that would turn around pretty quickly, even if it were at the cost if a -small- amount of Crit. Notice I said small! Shaman -do- still need crit, so let's not get too crazy.
The desire for Strength will still be there for Enhancement Shaman, but it would allow for more overlap. Hunter armor would be a little more desired and not outright repugnant. Would this increase the demand on those pieces of loot? Definitely. Those drops would be seen more frequently though, rather than buried under a cascade of mostly useless items that only one person in your raid could possibly want to equip. Even with a higher demand, it's less likely you'll have a bad luck streak and Hunters may even get their equipment faster despite the increased demand.
Moonkin already have a system like this in place in the form of their 400% Armor bonus from gear. Is it ideal to wear Leather in every slot? Definitely. Is it always feasible? Not particularly. It's possible we'll see the Boomkin getting a buff in Wrath, but pointed more directly in the direction of Cloth. Again, that's not ideal, and I'm sure the (*sigh*)Moonkin Tanks out there aren't pleased to hear it. It makes a good deal of sense, though. Cloth caster gear has all of the essential stats a Moonkin needs, and even in Cloth their armor value surpasses Leather and potentially rivals Mail thanks to Moonkin form's bonus.
One pretty large issue conflicts with the "cloth is just as good" part of being a Moonkin: Wearing Cloth too often feels like a 'downgrade' or settling for less. To give a slightly more extreme example, Paladins healed in pretty cloth dresses back in the day, but that doesn't mean they wanted to do it. It got the job done, but it was cloth. They should be in plate. In all honesty, I'm not quite sure how to overcome this stigma as far as class mechanics go. With the ability to wear Leather, equipping Cloth will almost never feel like a 'pure' upgrade. It will be difficult from a class design standpoint to prevent the mass amount of loot that may not be able to be used by more than one person in a raid, if anyone.
Luckily, Blizzard is trying something new in patch 2.4. If you haven't seen it yet, there's an NPC on Quel'Danas that allows you to exchange a boss drop and a Sunmote for a new, different piece of gear. This seems experimental, but something we could see a lot more of in Wrath. It's a pretty simple solution to a hella annoying problem. While the stigma of "QQ cloth QQ" can't be removed very easily through class mechanics, this does seem to be something that could handle it quite well. To continue the Moonkin example, this could allow you to roll/bid/spend your DKP on a Cloth Caster DPS robe, step outside of the raid zone and exchange it for a Leather robe with identical(or similar) stats. That isn't necessarily the case right now, but it would be possible with an expanded system like this one.
This could mean VERY good things, both for hybrids and the WoW community as a whole. It is very similar to the Tiered armor tokens, but still holds some of the excitement of drops. It's still more fun to see something called "Cursed Vision of Sargeras" drop than "Kooky Crown of the Conquistador" but it essentially serves the same purpose. Okay, maybe the Kooky Crown of the Conquistador would be more fun the first time, but you know what I mean. A boss's loot table can be pruned down to 4 or 5 random items from the 12+ some of them have now. While only 4 or 5 different drops would be possible, that boss's actual loot could be expanded to 20+ items. This would allow a greater amount of hybrid and 'off-spec' loot than there was before. There can be full sets of Elemental Shaman, Moonkin or Retribution Paladin specific armor in 10 and 25 man raid zones in a way that won't be an utter waste of time for raids that don't run those specs.
To most raiders, this is a matter of convenience, and it IS convenient. The days of DEing randomly dropped Spell Damage Mail five weeks in a row when you don't run an Ele Shaman are gone. That is most definitely a blessing. For the hybrids, and for the lesser played, less itemized specs, this is a glimpse into a potential future where you'll have no issue finding gear for you. The Burning Crusade did a lot of good toward making all of the hybrid specs viable, and it seems that if 2.4 is a sign of things to come, Wrath will follow that up with the cure for our few remaining itemization woes and the rest of the game's growing hatred of 'random' loot.
This cannot come soon enough.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Shaman, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Hybrid Theory
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Balasan Mar 22nd 2008 12:11PM
You took the words right out of my mouth. In a good way.
Having a single gear for multiple classes and specs is a safe way for everyone to get a good piece of gear from raid bosses, and it makes a gear for only one spec out of 27 can be very crushing to the soul (moonkin leather gear when there's no moonkin at all in the guild raid roster for example). And looking at how the ret pally in my guild enjoys ninjaing all the dps warrior gear, blizz made a sensible decision (sorry alliance ret pallies!).
It's not as good as token drops, though, which I personally beleive is the best way for bosses to drop stuff. It's the best guaranteed way to make sure classes get what they want to wear irrespective of spec (looking at you, enhancement shammy gear - only tier drop and one belt in SSC has the correct itemization for them)
I beleive that the gear swapping with sunmote is more of like an experiment by blizzard of some sort. They've had success with BoJ, and now all bosses everywhere have them now, so they're banking and putting effort into that now. I, like blizzard, will need to see how sunmote swapping will act out.
Still, the way I see it, these are the best way (and thus the recommended way) that hybrids should be getting gear in LK:
1) Token drops
2) BoJ-like purchases
3) Gear Swapping
4) Gear for multiple specs
From blizzcast and bornakk, evidently they're going to put more emphasis on #4. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how that one pans out.
Angus Mar 23rd 2008 11:54AM
(looking at you, enhancement shammy gear - only tier drop and one belt in SSC has the correct itemization for them)
Hate to tell you, but that's not even true. :(
T6 enhancement has more MP/5 than Elemental currently. We need MP/5 like rogues need leather with Int.
Oh yea, we also have tons of Int. Which we need about as much as rogues.
T6 stuff barely beats out T4 leather in terms of AEP in most slots, and does so simply because they had so many more points to spend they couldn't help but manage it.
That belt in SSC is actually inferior to a few other belts in SSC. Sadly the Str isn't making up for the poor itemization in other ways.
I'd love to have the option of getting mail with str after an "upgrade." I'm afraid though. I think it will be so poorly made that it is still not as good as rogue gear. I do see that the T6 boots, bracers and belt, were done well, so there is some hope...
Rebecca Mar 22nd 2008 12:40PM
But there are problems involved in this plan of Blizzard's, problems which, if 2.4 is any indicator, they do not yet have an answer for.
Consider the three specs of Warlock, Shadow Priests, the three specs of Mages, and, yes, Moonkin. Each have very different needs in their itemization. What is good for the goose is not nessecarily good for the gander. How much can you generalize? If you make a peice of gear with high stamina and low or non-existant intellect and 50 points of pure spelldamage... that's shadow priest or affliction warlock gear. If you might a peice with high spell crit and hit and almost none or very low spell damage, that's destro warlock or crit-based mage gear. A peice with Arcane damage would appeal to Mages and Moonkin, but not at all to Warlocks and Shadow Priests. Etc.
Look at Paladin and Warriors. Sure, DPS Warriors and Retribution Spec Paladin could probably make do with the same peices of gear. Does that mean that, post-TBC, Holy Paladin are going back to wearing Priest cloth or Druid Leather or Shaman Mail again? After all, healing plate is the most-unsharable loot in the game. Only one major spec can use it. Spelldamage plate is probably the second most-unsharable, but look at the way 2.4 has butchered the itemization of Spelldamage Heroic Item peices. The itemization is so bad that Tankadin en masse have declared (in dozens of topics and over 55 pages) that they will NOT use the 2.4 Spelldamage peices and will stick with the 2.3 ones instead. As they exist now, the 2.4 Spelldamage peices are good for Shockadin, maybe, or a Protection-spec Paladin who has every other peice of T6 level loot he or she will ever need and has about 5-10% leeway in Stamina and Avoidance for badly itemized loot that 'looks pretty.'
Rogues and Feral Druids can share leather, sure. Shaman and Hunters can share mail. Eventually Warriors and Paladin will have Death Knights to share with. But how much can you really 'generalize' loot without making the loot so badly itemized for certain specs that already have problems with itemization. Tankadin 'make-do' with Warrior Tanking Loot, Clothy Caster Weapons, and the handful of peices designed specifically for them. Most of the spelldamage plate peices in the game were recently stripped of their spelldamage, until Shockadin cried out 'what about us?!'
If 2.4 is an indicator of the direction in which Blizzard is intending to go, then I hope that they choose to go with the 'turn in for a better peice' idea over the 'dumb down loot so that it is so badly itemized anyone can use it to the same useless degree' idea that seems to cling to the 2.4 heroic items.
rick gregory Mar 22nd 2008 2:33PM
Well said. The only way gear can truly work for multiple classes is to make the stats which the classes value more similar, but that runs counter to their repeated desire to have distinct classes.
This also runs counter to some peoples' desire to not reuse models so much and to have more distinct looks. It will be interesting to see how this is all resolved by Blizzard.
Jack Spicer Mar 22nd 2008 1:07PM
I'm not quite as optimistic as the article writer. Why? In TBC wasn't some of these gear problems supposed to be solved by socketing gems? Yeah, what ever happened to that?
And how are you going to blend +defense, high armor leather in with other classes? Sorry Feral druids, unless Blizzard is going to start translating Agility into +defense for bear tanks, you're going to get boned by this "generalization" of gear.
Jack Spicer Mar 22nd 2008 1:11PM
Instead of generalizing the gear, all the instances bosses should just drop tokens that can be traded in for gear, ala Heroic Badges and Tier pieces. I'm not saying that the gear should all be epic, but its a better solution to randomness of drops than 'generalizing' the gear.
Green Armadillo Mar 22nd 2008 1:24PM
I would imagine that DK's will use spell damage plate, so that stuff might in principle be useful for someone down the line. I actually made the mistake of leveling my Pally through Outland in spell damage gear thinking that it must be good for Pallies. :(
I'd just really like to see some for of exchange system so that you don't need to be so painstakingly careful about your quest rewards as a hybrid. I have literally spent 20 minutes alt-tabbed at a questgiver, hitting the database sites to try and figure out which of two rewards was going to be harder to replace if I passed it up now. This also means keeping four full gearsets (Tanking, Healing, Ret, and Spell Damage, plus some sidegrades to sub out as needed for avoidance, mana/5 etc) in my bank at all times.
Zumacrume Mar 22nd 2008 2:00PM
I can't even believe the sunmote/item exchange. Did we forget we're playing an MMO and not just having blizzard give us stuff? If you want gear you like just given to you and not have to farm/wait for a certain item to drop, stop playing this game. Getting the gear you like/want takes more time then rolling on a downgrade and exchanging it. If this keeps up...ill start counting the days until the WAR release.
p-diddy Mar 22nd 2008 3:06PM
>> If you want gear you like just given to you and not have
>> to farm/wait for a certain item to drop, stop playing this
>> game.
Sorry but this type of attitude stupefies me. So your position is that the game is made more fun by being more tedious?
*shaking head* I wish I had your free time. I'm not saying the trade-in system is the answer, but that the whole farming/hoping for a particular drop is part of the fun of the game boggles the mind. I mean, it's really cool when what you want DOES drop, but when it doesn't, the first thing I think is "F ME. Now I have to run this instance AGAIN." And after my friends have already run say, Ramparts 4 times (2 times without me because I wasn't in Outland yet), they don't want to run it again just so I can get the belt I want. Which means I have to get a PuG to do it. And, when I'm running it with a PuG, oh wait, the item doesn't drop again, so now I have to find ANOTHER PuG to do it.
Sorry, that isn't f'ing fun. That's a GD job and that's not what a GAME is supposed to be.
-p-
Balasan Mar 22nd 2008 3:22PM
I think you might be exaggerating the sunmote exchange system. You don't just pick an item off the sunwell and swap it with just *any* gear in the list. One item can be traded in for another similar item.
I can't remember the specifics, but I do recall a trade-in of a healing mail pants for spelldamage mail pants, and a leather feral chest for a leather spelldamage chest.
So no, it's not like blizz is just giving away whatever item we like. The old system still holds, just with more leeway - perfect for hybrids.
And I agree with p-diddy...
Vidi Mar 24th 2008 7:49PM
I cant understand the support of repeatedly killing the same boss over and over until 25 players "randomly" get their drop so they can move on to the next raid instance. This exchange system will allow for raid guilds to more quickly progress through the content, which can be good and bad.
Good - Many players get left behind in the current system. Players get bored with hitting SSC for the 20th time and quit guilds to move into the next raid with some other guild leaving their old guild in tatters all because they lost the inevitable loot roll when both players bid the max DKP. This eliminates that and helps promote community by keeping teams together.
Bad - Now you'll be bidding against 10 players instead of just three or four.
Good - BUT those ten are more likely to get what they need in less actual runs than before
Bad - This is VERY bad however for enchanters and those wanting phat raid enchants but dont have phat raid guilds. Currently, the top raid guilds have the top enchanters. So if a player isnt in a raid guild but wants a BOP enchant they have to go to a member of that guild. Without the DE's the mats are going to be MUCH more rare and the prices on the best enchants will skyrocket.
Good - BUT with more teams staying together there coud be more guilds actually seeing this content and that could be the balance that will keep the enchant economy from going crazy.
All in all, this system is only one step towards a next gen loot distribution system. Its good to see Blizzard trying to get beyond the old MMO random drop system. But the jury will remain out, in my opinion, until we see its total effect on the game.
People often forget that each change has dramatic effects across multiple aspects of the game. This change will be no different in that respect, so until we see how those effects play out, we cannot know for certain if this change is for the better or the worse
blake Mar 22nd 2008 7:51PM
So wait. Healing gear can be traded for spell damage gear and vice versa?
So my lock can roll on healing gear because I know I can trade it out, and healers can roll on my spell dmg gear because they know the same is true?
I smell flaws.
Angus Mar 23rd 2008 9:16PM
CERTAIN pieces can be traded. These pieces are standard class pieces. Rogue Leather, etc.. You then trade it in for something in the same class but with a more specific spec in mind. Druid leather in this case.