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3-23-2008 @ 11:35AM
Considering how easy it is for mages to burn my warrior to a crisp from range, or how easy it is for a warlock's instant dots to kill me (eventually, and hopefully after I get him/her down), I tend to think that pushback is just fine as is. Thinking that pushback is a problem seems to assume that melee/caster combat has to be balanced around melee encounters -- but combat includes melee AND ranged aspects. Half the time I get kited around before I can close the gap, even with charge and intercept. Even if I trinket out of a deathcoil with my superhuman fast reflexes I am usually far enough away that I am out of melee range and have to close the gap again. And blink! you gave any idea how annoying Blink is? How can I kill you if you are all the way over there!So, I'll make a deal with all you casters: I'll stop pushing back your spells if you stop kiting me around. Sound fair?
3-23-2008 @ 12:07PM
So, what class has both deathcoil and blink?
3-23-2008 @ 12:27PM
I dunno. All clothies look alike to me. You mean there are different kinds?Whatever class has deathcoil and blink also has something called Psychic Scream that's really annoying too. And some sort of shield. And some sort of face-melting laser than makes me walk slow.Seriously though -- all cloth classes have something they can use to keep me at range. If they keep me at range they win. If I get close then I win. Without pushback, then suddenly the clothies win whether I am close or far. I seem to think that make pushback fair, even if it is annoying.
3-23-2008 @ 12:43PM
Warriors have plenty of tools to deal with casters: hamstring (with no cooldown), charge, intercept and shield bash. Warriors can do as much dps on the move as standing still, have much greater health pools and generate rage throughout a fight not having to worry about running out of mana.
3-23-2008 @ 1:47PM
Sounds like things are pretty fair then! We have abilities that work against casters and you have abilities that work against warriors. But I do want to point out that our little discussion has moved from a discussion from pushback itself to a matter of overall balance, which was my original point. It is impossible to simply evaluate pushback as a mechanic, all by itself and devoid of any reference to the context of overall PvP fairness. Maybe pushback does need to be changed, but not because it is ITSELF unfair, but because melee vs. caster combat is unbalanced. And, so far, no one has really made that case yet.
3-23-2008 @ 3:16PM
I challenge you to go play a caster (try mage) on the TTR. Let us know afterwards if you feel spell pushback is a balanced mechanic.You'll more than likely cringe at how fragile and poorly designed caster's are in comparison to their melee counterparts.
3-24-2008 @ 1:22AM
"So, I'll make a deal with all you casters: I'll stop pushing back your spells if you stop kiting me around. Sound fair?"So basically, besides all having instant cast abilities (blink, death coil, psychic scream) that have big cooldowns you say that it's fair that when you are close you'll own a clothie? No problem there. So, when a clothie use his overpowered psychic scream and move 1 foot from you, what else can he do? Oh I see. Get owned.And whenever you fear a clothie, that's super fair right?Can't stop laughing.
3-24-2008 @ 8:17AM
@Arya -- I think that maybe we just have different perspectives on how PvP should be balanced. I'll admit that my arena team is kinda scrub, since the others just want to farm points and aren't as concerned with ratings as I am. But, for me, PvP should include not just Arena but BGs and (most important!) world PvP. I was leveling an alt on Gorefiend (a PvP server) and the only reason I could finally kill enough yetis to find Hercular's Rod was because a 70 warrior came to fight with the gank-happy mage. I think PvP should be balanced with one eye to that kind of encounter (and, I should add, more times than not the mage just destroyed the warrior, despite his full S1 gear). So, on this point, maybe we'll agree to disagree. Handshake & make up?I haven't started my TTR character, but I'm working on it. I'll let you know (well, prolly not, just being civil!) if it changes my mind.@bsides -- I think I stated my case as clear as I could -- maybe my attempts at humor made me seem more sarcastic than I intended. Assuming you aren't posting just to be vitriolic ('cos that NEVER happens on the web!) I'm not sure what your mocking, derisive tone is accomplishing. What, exactly, is your point?
3-24-2008 @ 10:08AM
"So, when a clothie use his overpowered psychic scream and move 1 foot from you, what else can he do?"If you get a melee off you and then don't move AWAY from them... you're stupid. Sorry.
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