Breakfast Topic: Should there be honor in PvP?
by Allison Robert 
Mar 25th 2008 at 8:00AM
And by honor I don't mean the honor-as-currency system that's currently in the game -- I mean a sense of personal honor as in, there are things you make a conscious decision to avoid doing just as a moral gesture. I thought of this recently after a truly miserable losing streak in Arathi Basin. I wound up in three consecutive matches with a full complement of 15 Alliance players to 7 or 8 Horde (with both sides being PuG's, mind you). Being out-numbered and out-gunned sucks no matter what, but it's made immeasurably worse in places like Arathi Basin and EOTS due to the dwindling number of sites you'll have to rez when your side is being utterly destroyed. There was one particularly awful game where the Alliance decided to see how much honor they could get from us before the inevitable 4 or 5-cap ensuring their victory, and simply zerged us in the graveyard as we rezzed (or tried to). The feeling was made worse by knowing, having also played Alliance in BG's, that Horde would almost certainly have done the same thing had the situation been reversed. PvP is the subject of a lot of emotional dicussion in the WoW community as a result of situations like these, and I think we can all agree that it's not the losses that drive you nuts so much as knowing that the game is full of places and times where no amount of strategy or skill will keep you alive.
There are a lot of things in PvP that I just don't like being a part of.
I don't attack fellow Druids unless I'm attacked first (yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but a surprising number of Druids subscribe to this). I don't join in when an enemy player is obviously being dog-piled. I don't /spit on opposing players or do other rude emotes, and I don't participate in griefing. There's not much about WoW's PvP system that's really all that fair to begin with, especially when compared to games more explicity designed around PvP combat, but in the back of my mind there's still that notion that your opponent should at least have a sporting chance. I risk being called a hopeless carebear for this statement, but I think "honorable kills" are a lot more enjoyable when there's a measure of actual honor involved.
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Breakfast Topics, Battlegrounds, Arena
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
random druid Mar 25th 2008 8:05AM
Hey I am a druid and don't attack other druids unless attacked first also. I thought I was the only person who did this. Its cool you do the same.
JParris Mar 25th 2008 8:17AM
I do the same. Unless an Alliance comes up and attacks me, I leave all Druids alone, even when playing my non-Druid characters, since my Druid is my main. Heh.
Funny thing is, I don't feel the desire to do this with my other toons. I kill other Hunters on my Hunter all the time. Haha. I guess there's just something about Druids that makes me respect then, possibly because it's my main. :)
Nasgoul Mar 25th 2008 8:27AM
This article relates to the pvp faction article a few days (a week maybe?) ago... For my fellow Alliance..
The Horde are vicious... they are determined.. they will not stop until our world is burning in ruin..
The Horde are ruthless... they are dishonorable... they will not stop until they wear your blood on their sleve
The Horde are evil.. they are an unnatural presence on this world... they will not stop...
until they are stopped...
Ture honor will be found in victory my brothers... do not cry for the Horde... they do not cry for you
These are the thoughts I have as I take control of their minds and throw them off the lumber mill cliffs
Todd Mar 25th 2008 10:45AM
Ha! No allie Druids on my server are like this. Any time I see a ally druid they imediately go into battlemode it seems. Yesterday I was in catform when I passed one running in travelform. Thankfully my finger was on the prowl button. I watched from a distance as he frantically ran back in forth to find me. A few days before that I was ganked by another druid who also waited around for me regen an proceeded to kill me at half strength.
I should have rolled on a PVE server. Ganking, being ganked, wasting time in the Inn in Tarren Mill because the flightmaster is dead and there are 5 70's just waiting outside of town is just not fun.
Krianna Mar 25th 2008 1:55PM
I'm the same way on my mage.
OTOH, I RP as well-- most my characters are loyal to Thrall (one of them is a bloody fan-girl) and they want to promote the "peace" part of the "uneasy peace."
Stormtrooper421 Mar 25th 2008 8:13AM
I am a holy paladin, and if I had a nickel for every time I wanted to heal a horde in trouble, I would have quite the pile of shinnies. Due to my class build, the only thing I can REALLY do to help others is to heal them or to run in and place a well timed Hammer. I totally agree with this article, I never gank or /spit. Its cool how some of you druids have such a tight bond to not fight each other if you can help it. Great post, though im sure there will be a comment sooner or later "lawlz, i pwn honurble allies, dey iz t3h SUK!"
Rydolomo Mar 25th 2008 8:22AM
World pvp is not about fair play, two or more players 10 or more levels will kill you whenever they find you even if they gain nothing from it. You don't have a chance and that's how a lot of people want it. Being sporting is not the point.
Rydo
Mystical Parrot Mar 25th 2008 8:13AM
ive been bging on my resto shammy recently. and while pretty much anyone will target me i'll only really get involved against other resto shammies (2 resto shammies dueling is lol) or just where i can heal someone.
wow pvp lacks honour so bad, and its a situation i can't think how you could change in the ruleset, it really is something that has to be dealt with by 'society'
Naix Mar 25th 2008 10:20AM
So very true.
I still like to wave and back stab on my Rogue. Here is how you too can have a bit of fun with the opposing faction.
1. Find some ppl in STV questing
2. Run up to them and wave
3. When they wave back shadowstep 1 shot them.
Enjoy!
BitterCupOJoe Mar 25th 2008 10:35AM
I thought about it a little this morning. The easy way to fix the ruleset is to implement an exponential debuff as you gank grey players. Each time you kill someone that gives no honor in world PvP, you refresh the debuff and double both its effects and duration. The debuff is basically identical to rez sickness in effect (x% debuff to all stats and damage that lasts through death, except that it also adds x% debuff to weapon skills and affects your total stats, not your base stats, and it makes mobs aggro on you/affects your stealth detection as if your level were x% lower) and starts at 5% and 5 minutes. If you kill a grey player again before the debuff is over, it goes to 10% and 10 minutes, then 20% and 20, etc. At its maximum, it takes you to 95% debuff and 2 hours. So, if you really want to go crazy and gank people in Southshore, enjoy your 2 hour debuff. That assumes, of course, that after your fourth grey kill you can even survive the mobs there.
While this wouldn't make players honorable, it would at least make them act honorably, for the most part. Arguably, that's what rules and laws do in the first place, enforce honor upon those without it.
Isa Mar 25th 2008 8:16AM
CAREBEAR!
No, I agree with you; I like to keep some honor when fighting the opposing fraction. I attack if they attack first, otherwise I wave and hope for a temporary truce while we have to share the same quest mobs. I admittily do gank sometimes, but I never camp or laugh and dance on their corpse. There's never a reason to be a jerk online or offline.
turkeyspit Mar 25th 2008 8:18AM
Instead, how about we get an answer to this:
"Why do I wait in a queue for a period of 10-15 minutes, only to enter a BG, and watch the gates open before both teams have their full compliment of players"
Isnt that the POINT of a queue?
I recognize that a match of AV with 40 Horde and 35 Alliance isn't going to be a big deal, but how many times has WSG stared 10 vs 7, or AB 15 vs 9? The early lead can (and usually does) make a huge difference.
Fix the damn queuing system Blizzard.
Standish Mar 25th 2008 9:05AM
The graveyard stomping will only get worse with 2.4 since there won't be any more diminishing returns for killing toons repeatedly. If you want to forgo the roflstomping in the ABgy then all you have to do is walk away from the gy while in ghost form, once a certain distance away you will be out of range to be rez'd. I do that when I don't feel like feeding the other team hk's.
Tyranor Mar 25th 2008 8:19AM
I try to keep a sense of honour in PvP, but the facts are, generally, its all but impossible. Hell, rogues are a class built on being dishonourable, which makes honour in BGs out of the question. Disorganised world PvP wise though, I don't gank people, and if I do, I make sure to let them see me first.
Tabris Mar 25th 2008 8:28AM
I too agree with many of your view's in the are of 'honor'. There are certain things that you can and cannot do, even to members of the opposing faction. For two examples of recent foray's into Eye of the Storm for my S1 weapons upon hitting 70, I noticed two very definite methods of game play the other players followed.
Firstly was in regards to overwhelming pre-made groups on one side completely destroying those of the other side. An entire compliment of 15 T6 members from a single guild charging towards my rag-tag PuG of 9 is not the nicest sight in the world, and I found that in such situations, my fellow hordies would simply spawn utop our pillar and remain there. We would concede victory to the stronger players, but deny them any honor from kills as they were showing no sportsmanship.
The second such tid-bit I noticed in my games was this time on behalf of the Alliance players. When under 10% health, they would attempt to flee the field of battle, in theory to heal up and return to the fight. However, when followed, they would willingly leap from the edge of the Storm into the abyss, killing themselves and denying my team-mates and myself any form of honor for their death. This has been recorded several dozen times by myself and friends, from a huge range of different players.
Just my, well, more than a few silver by this point.
Kuroyume Mar 25th 2008 8:23AM
hehe... i think for warriors is the opposite of druids... we tend to prefer fighting each other... maybe because it's the only fight we know will be straight and with no tricks involved...
voggz Mar 25th 2008 8:28AM
HONOR? lol please this is a war may I mind you . why be fair to you enemies? like really people who are horrible at pvp cry way too much, I'm sorry they tore you up and made you feel bad. But if the truth hurts CHANGE IT! People who complain about all of this CRAP are the people that will cause this game to die. Geez
BitterCupOJoe Mar 25th 2008 8:42AM
You... you do realize this is a game, right?
Across Mar 25th 2008 8:51AM
Complaint or not, a lot of wars in history have had honour in them. Allowances for surrender, don't kill civilians/non-combatants, triage for the wounded, even if it's an enemy, etc.
Mind you, a lot of battles in history are the rape-burn-pillage kind too..
Which does WoW subscribe to, I wonder..? :P
doyesac Mar 25th 2008 11:53AM
I recently rerolled PvP, and while it is annoying when I can't finish my quests because that dumb gnome mage keeps blowing me up...
...the thought of hitting 70 and blowing up people like voggz MORE than makes up for any frustrations at lower levels. I think a lot of people start out on PvP servers willing to be a bit honorable towards the opposite faction, but by the time they hit 70 enough encounters with raving gank-o-matics like voggz have beaten all honorable intentions right out of em!
Sounds like fun! Can't wait to join em!