2.4 leaves hunters low on mana
Since patch 2.4, hunters have been having some problems. Aside from the outrage over the fact that our traps are now announced, we seem to be having issues with mana. On the forums, hunters are not seeing much love from the non-hunter crowd, but I suppose that is to be expected. It is important to note however, that our mana efficiency is an intended attribute of our class. We are useful, not solely, but arguably primarily, because we can provide sustainable, long-term DPS. No, we don't crit like mages. In a boss fight though, we can keep going after mages short out.
Why are hunters all of a sudden having issues with mana? There are a few theories floating around, but we have yet to be graced with a blue response. Take the jump to learn more about why this might be happening.When I first popped into game after I installed patch 2.4, I was pretty excited, as I had not explored the content in the PTRs. It wasn't long before I wondered why I could only kill one or two mobs before I needed a very serious drink. That just shouldn't happen to a hunter, especially not at 70.
Even my Aspect of the Viper, which I almost always wear, wasn't helping the issue much. So I hit the forums. It seems that I was not the only hunter affected.
At present, the likely suspect is this change, intended to help casters.
Spirit-Based Mana Regeneration: This system has been adjusted so that as your intellect rises, you will regenerate more mana per point of spirit.
That sounds fine, right? It should help the casters and even though hunters don't stack spirit, it just means we won't get the extra boost of regen. That's probably what Blizzard thought too.
The current estimation is that any hunter with less than 300 intellect is being negatively affected by the change. Despite some claims that only lowbie hunters will be affected, many 70s are being hard-hit.
Why are we upset that we might have to start choosing intellect enchants rather than focusing on other stats? A few simple reasons.
- Yes, we are a mana class. It was not always this way, and perhaps it should not be this way. We are much more like rogues and warriors than mages or warlocks. Paladins use mana because they are hybrids; melee casters with holy powers. Regardless, if we stack intellect with high priority, we lose a ton of damage. Casters don't.
- "So just slap on Aspect of the Viper." Well let's take a closer look at that talent, shall we?
- The hunter takes on the aspects of a viper, regenerating mana equal to up to 55% of <his/her> Intellect every 5 sec. The lower the hunter's current mana, the more mana will be regenerated. Only one Aspect can be active at a time.
- The beauty of this talent is twofold. First of all, it ensures that indeed, we do not need to stack intellect to have better regen. This is great because we ought not to be stacking too much of it anyway.
- The second benefit is that we don't need to have it up all or most of the time. Hunters
arewere built to be fairly mana-efficient. Under special circumstances though, Viper can be a great asset. - "So why not just wear it all the time now?" For one, it does not even remotely counteract the impact from this change. Secondly, we don't want to render every other aspect inferior. Aspect of the Hawk, which grants us +155 attack power, not counting Improved Aspect of the Hawk. For non-Beast Masters especially, the Hawk is a very important part of hunter gameplay.
- Intellect is one of the stats that does not buff our pets, unless you have a caster pet, which is not always advisable, partly because of the impact of intellect, and partly because of the pet's use of intellect. As BRK says:
- Hunter stats buff pet stats. A hunter's armor buffs his pet's armor. A hunter's ranged attack power contributes to his pet's Spell Damage bonus. A hunter's stamina contributes to his pet's stamina. A hunter's magical resistances buff his pet's magical resistances. Hunters and their pets enjoy a symbiotic relationship and all hunters need to be aware of this.
- So if we enjoy a symbiotic relationship, then while stacking stats that don't buff our pets, especially as Beast Masters, we are looking at trouble. All hunters collect intellect, but it is fourth or fifth on the docket. Agility, attack power, and stamina, in varying orders based on your spec and playstyle, most definitely come first, and by times, so do resistances. Our upper-end hunter gear often has intellect on it, but to a very reduced capacity. Why? Because otherwise we'd be over-stacking it.
- Hunter Mana Regen in 2.4.
- Hunter Mana Regen / AotV Broken.
- AoV not functioning. - Blue response suggests it is probably functioning, but they'll check. I think these concerns are really the result of the new int-based spirit regen system.
- Hunter + mana = broken.
- Hunters AFTER 2.4. A plea for action.
- Hunter mana regen massively reduced.
- 2.4 ruined hunter mana regen.
Unfortunately, this new change seems to be positive for everyone but hunters, rendering the likelihood that it will be remedied slim, or the nature creative. Although there are rumors that this will affect all caster lowbies, it will take time to see if other lowbie stats, like higher intellect and spirit relative to level and needs, will counterbalance it.
Blizzard is unlikely to reverse the change, but they might try to buff our mana regen in other ways. They could change Viper Sting to cost less mana, and funnel some of the mana into our own stores. They could buff Aspect of the Viper, although again, this would render all other aspects inferior.
Hopefully we will see a follow-up patch addressing some of the issues and bugs that are being experienced since patch 2.4 dropped, and with any luck, there will be a resolution for hunters. I'm not holding my breath though; we might get a "fix" that doesn't really fix much.
For further reading, check out the following threads:
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Bugs, Enchants, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Corazu Mar 27th 2008 7:43PM
No surprise here, hunter's ALWAYS get the shaft. Even when we enjoyed our godlikeness during path 2.0 before BC hit, it got nerfed within a week, and even with the change then, we wouldn't be too well off once we hit 70 since the scaling at that point sucked.
GG Blizz, way to continue proving that the hunter class was just an afterthought.
Sneakstar Mar 27th 2008 7:57PM
LOL!!!
my2cents Mar 27th 2008 9:47PM
you must be joking..."hunters always get the shaft." erm...what?!
Krianna Mar 29th 2008 1:17AM
What on EARTH are you smoking.
"Hunters always get the shaft"?
Hunters have mage-level DPS, wear chain, have a pet that can tank and do damage, can dispell...and oh golly gee, QQ, those that don't try to make sure they have decent mana pools can't just cruise along anymore.
Cry me a river.
Go roll a mage some time, seriously.
ren Mar 27th 2008 7:55PM
Its a bummer when i found out( in the mid of Mag ter) that i went thru way too much mana and mana pots. I used to be able to sit back with aspect of hawk and crit 3500-4500 every third shot or so. Now, I have to sit back and check my viper or hope i dont use my full mana pot injector in one instance run.
I get a new chest item in mag terrace and i actually looked for mana regen gem instead of crit or ap gem. BOOOO! Guess i need to start a lock and join the DOT nation.
Blacksabre Mar 27th 2008 8:07PM
:laughing: Warlocks, shamans...now hunters.
QQ away, people. You got nerfed, and it looks good on you.
Next up...druids. Let's cut that armor bonus in feral form to about 50%, from 400%.
And foir the rogues, let's cut your speed in half, when you're in Stealth form.
You plate guys over in the corner...keep quiet. Maybe the paladin should pray, or soimething.
:cracks up: "We can't DPS for 10 minutes, now! We're ruined! We can't be the ultimate DPS class!"
Sucks bein' you. Welcome to our world.
Izbay Mar 27th 2008 9:06PM
And foir the rogues, let's cut your speed in half, when you're in Stealth form.
It already is if you're not sublety >.>
guesswho? Mar 28th 2008 9:37AM
lolmage
Matt Mar 27th 2008 8:21PM
hunters shouldnt use mana at all imo, it should be energy like rogues...also if you think logically, not saying blizzard is logical or anything, hunters should use strength for RAP, the strength that you pull the bow string back, or the strength to steady the gun, agility should be haste or crit... on my mage i dont use int to buff my spell dammage...why make their class completely 1 stats reliant, agility is all they care about, and maybe some stam if their BM, but really they want likes of crit, and RAP, nothing else...
jbodar Mar 27th 2008 10:16PM
Well if you want realism, who's going to do more damage with a bow a really strong guy who can't aim for jack or a guy who can barely draw the string but can hit you in the neck from 100 paces?
Blacksabre Mar 27th 2008 9:06PM
Hunters ARE a mana class. But...for a long time, due to their mana efficiency, they were essentially getting a free ride, on regen...no reason to take an intellect stat bonus, if you got lotsa mana, so we'll just stock up on agility and pwn the world, on DPS.
Well, surprise. This change makes you mortal. You're not supposed to be the kings of DPS, able to fight at obscene levels of damage for 10+ minutes at a time. So wipe your noses and go regear the way your class was supposed to be regeared, and drop your DPS levels back to sane.
Besides, Intellect isn't so bad. It adds to your (already ridiculous) crit percentage. :maniacal laughter:
dancinglion Mar 27th 2008 9:39PM
Blacksabre, I want to congratulate you on adding even more pointless and mean spirited comments. I guess the realm forums aren't busy enough to keep a troll of your caliber?
It seems that youjust can't keep up with the hunters in your guild. Maybe you should learn to play your class a bit better so you too can deal out the mega damage.
Krianna Mar 29th 2008 1:25AM
I must agree.
I have a hunter alt. I go to her when I need to feel what it's like to be insanely OP.
Since the change, I just have to every five or seven mobs stop and drink...that's it.
Excuse me while I FAIL to agree with the OP.
epsilon343 Mar 27th 2008 8:35PM
Welcome to the world of the Shaman I suppose.
Aiur Mar 27th 2008 8:38PM
Okay. There's plenty of problems with your argument Matt. For starters, making a class completely 1 stat reliant is VERY limiting. It brings down the different playable styles available. To exemplify, a rogue who stacks crit tends to go for smaller damage on each hit, but makes it up in the frequency of their hit. Just as well, a rogue who stacks attack power tends to go for bigger damage each hit, but typically sacrifices critical strike chance.
The combination of stats allows for many different styles of class play.
Oh by the way, gameplay is put over logic. Just because it works out logically doesn't mean it works out in terms of playability and balance. ;]
Excuse me, but as a person who plays a non-intellect based class (My only character), what was the preexisting system before this? As in, what exactly changed, I know what happened when 2.4 hit-but how did it work before?
Green Armadillo Mar 27th 2008 8:50PM
The previous system was that spirit restored a fixed amount of mana per point. Problem being that spirit is itemized at the same point value as the other four attributes, so you were giving up a lot of other stats for an amount of regen that simply didn't scale very well, especially with larger health and mana pools in TBC. Also remember that spirit-based health regen doesn't function in combat at all for any class other than trolls, and mana regen is shut off for five seconds after each spell-cast, meaning no spirit regen unless your class has a spell or talent to allow it. Spirit was overall pretty useless.
So they changed it to scale with intellect in the hopes of making it better (primarily for healers, many of whom have a talent to allow 30% of their regen to continue in combat) so that people wouldn't avoid it anymore. And apparently they forgot that hunters don't stack intellect.
That said, total ignorance about the high end hunter game here, but aren't hunters subject to the 5-second rule? Is there actually room for a tick of spirit regen in your shot rotations to begin with?
Green Armadillo Mar 27th 2008 8:42PM
Actually, I suspect this IS something that Blizzard could fix without reverting the changes for other mana users. Spirit already has different coefficients for different classes, so they could conceivably bump up the spirit mana regen coefficient on hunters to make up for their *ahem* intentionally limited intellect. ;)
Ironically, Hunters once didn't have mana bars. Kalgan once posted that hunters used to have a bar that represented aiming, kinda like the opposite of a Rogue's energy bar because it started empty and only filled up when you were standing still. He commented that it was scrapped, because being forced to stand still to do damage wasn't fun. Every caster in the game died a little inside that day.
jbodar Mar 27th 2008 10:10PM
I never thought of it before, but it does seem really odd that a hunter can run in circles all day while firing a bow, but casters need to stand still to use their *magic wand*.
I think the aim mechanic seems cool, but hunters should be able to move and shoot. Moving already delays their autoshot as it is.
Tridus Mar 28th 2008 5:09AM
Actually in 2.4 all classes share the same Spirit regen formula.
Thats not the problem here though. Hunters never got any Spirit regen anyway.
jrb Mar 28th 2008 5:31AM
in fairness, that's because hunter's have certain special shots that are instant-cast, much like a lot of other classes instant-cast spells (a lock's DoTs for instance).
a Hunter's Auto-fire of guns/bows, the equivelant to using a wand, isn't instant cast, and is instead based on the speed of the weapon. Hunters need to stand still for autoshot in the same way that caster's have to stand still for wands.