2.4 leaves hunters low on mana
Since patch 2.4, hunters have been having some problems. Aside from the outrage over the fact that our traps are now announced, we seem to be having issues with mana. On the forums, hunters are not seeing much love from the non-hunter crowd, but I suppose that is to be expected. It is important to note however, that our mana efficiency is an intended attribute of our class. We are useful, not solely, but arguably primarily, because we can provide sustainable, long-term DPS. No, we don't crit like mages. In a boss fight though, we can keep going after mages short out.
Why are hunters all of a sudden having issues with mana? There are a few theories floating around, but we have yet to be graced with a blue response. Take the jump to learn more about why this might be happening.When I first popped into game after I installed patch 2.4, I was pretty excited, as I had not explored the content in the PTRs. It wasn't long before I wondered why I could only kill one or two mobs before I needed a very serious drink. That just shouldn't happen to a hunter, especially not at 70.
Even my Aspect of the Viper, which I almost always wear, wasn't helping the issue much. So I hit the forums. It seems that I was not the only hunter affected.
At present, the likely suspect is this change, intended to help casters.
Spirit-Based Mana Regeneration: This system has been adjusted so that as your intellect rises, you will regenerate more mana per point of spirit.
That sounds fine, right? It should help the casters and even though hunters don't stack spirit, it just means we won't get the extra boost of regen. That's probably what Blizzard thought too.
The current estimation is that any hunter with less than 300 intellect is being negatively affected by the change. Despite some claims that only lowbie hunters will be affected, many 70s are being hard-hit.
Why are we upset that we might have to start choosing intellect enchants rather than focusing on other stats? A few simple reasons.
- Yes, we are a mana class. It was not always this way, and perhaps it should not be this way. We are much more like rogues and warriors than mages or warlocks. Paladins use mana because they are hybrids; melee casters with holy powers. Regardless, if we stack intellect with high priority, we lose a ton of damage. Casters don't.
- "So just slap on Aspect of the Viper." Well let's take a closer look at that talent, shall we?
- The hunter takes on the aspects of a viper, regenerating mana equal to up to 55% of <his/her> Intellect every 5 sec. The lower the hunter's current mana, the more mana will be regenerated. Only one Aspect can be active at a time.
- The beauty of this talent is twofold. First of all, it ensures that indeed, we do not need to stack intellect to have better regen. This is great because we ought not to be stacking too much of it anyway.
- The second benefit is that we don't need to have it up all or most of the time. Hunters
arewere built to be fairly mana-efficient. Under special circumstances though, Viper can be a great asset. - "So why not just wear it all the time now?" For one, it does not even remotely counteract the impact from this change. Secondly, we don't want to render every other aspect inferior. Aspect of the Hawk, which grants us +155 attack power, not counting Improved Aspect of the Hawk. For non-Beast Masters especially, the Hawk is a very important part of hunter gameplay.
- Intellect is one of the stats that does not buff our pets, unless you have a caster pet, which is not always advisable, partly because of the impact of intellect, and partly because of the pet's use of intellect. As BRK says:
- Hunter stats buff pet stats. A hunter's armor buffs his pet's armor. A hunter's ranged attack power contributes to his pet's Spell Damage bonus. A hunter's stamina contributes to his pet's stamina. A hunter's magical resistances buff his pet's magical resistances. Hunters and their pets enjoy a symbiotic relationship and all hunters need to be aware of this.
- So if we enjoy a symbiotic relationship, then while stacking stats that don't buff our pets, especially as Beast Masters, we are looking at trouble. All hunters collect intellect, but it is fourth or fifth on the docket. Agility, attack power, and stamina, in varying orders based on your spec and playstyle, most definitely come first, and by times, so do resistances. Our upper-end hunter gear often has intellect on it, but to a very reduced capacity. Why? Because otherwise we'd be over-stacking it.
- Hunter Mana Regen in 2.4.
- Hunter Mana Regen / AotV Broken.
- AoV not functioning. - Blue response suggests it is probably functioning, but they'll check. I think these concerns are really the result of the new int-based spirit regen system.
- Hunter + mana = broken.
- Hunters AFTER 2.4. A plea for action.
- Hunter mana regen massively reduced.
- 2.4 ruined hunter mana regen.
Unfortunately, this new change seems to be positive for everyone but hunters, rendering the likelihood that it will be remedied slim, or the nature creative. Although there are rumors that this will affect all caster lowbies, it will take time to see if other lowbie stats, like higher intellect and spirit relative to level and needs, will counterbalance it.
Blizzard is unlikely to reverse the change, but they might try to buff our mana regen in other ways. They could change Viper Sting to cost less mana, and funnel some of the mana into our own stores. They could buff Aspect of the Viper, although again, this would render all other aspects inferior.
Hopefully we will see a follow-up patch addressing some of the issues and bugs that are being experienced since patch 2.4 dropped, and with any luck, there will be a resolution for hunters. I'm not holding my breath though; we might get a "fix" that doesn't really fix much.
For further reading, check out the following threads:
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Bugs, Enchants, Forums
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
tanek Mar 27th 2008 11:47PM
Huh. Could be this is what is happening to my Feral Druid, too. My mana pool is shallower than Paris Hilton, sure, but it used to be that I could buff up and throw on a small heal between fights without much trouble. Now, I do that and I barely have enough to shift back to cat/bear.
I thought I was going crazy. (Which I'm still not ruling out, just maybe crossing this one thing off my list of evidence.)
kunukia Mar 27th 2008 11:54PM
Dethfire...didja notice that some mobs in the new zone *suck your mana*!!!! That is what is happening if you are down to 30% after one fight.
VSUReaper Mar 28th 2008 2:24AM
All I am hearing is QQQQQQQQQQ and then some more QQQQQ. You guys think you are the only ones that got shafted up the ass? Well lets look at it as a whole:
Druids: While immensely OP in PVP situations due to their ability to be a tank/part time healer/rogue, the PVE side of the Druid got slapped in the face. One of their primary heals, Lifebloom, got nerfed. Now while I will never claim to be an expert on druids, I will say that they are great healers in PVE content and will now have to stack more +heals/spirit to achieve what they were once able to do at the blink of an eye.
Priests: Well where can I start here. Have you looked at their trees? Yes, Disc is nice, it is designed to be a hybrid build of survivability thru out-healing your opponent while someone else chips them away or you wait for your dots to tick away on them. They had one spell that was designed to give them some burst damage by being able to increase the over all healing/dps by about 20%. This made the disc build viable for 5-mans and scattered uses in raids. But now it has become the imp-imp-mana burn. What does everyone friggin complain about priests doing? Mana burning them so fast. So they change our "oh shit!" button to faster OOM-ness. TY Blizz, you just made my spec less viable for raiding.
The holy tree: holy shit! This is ridiculous. For starters, to be 100% healer, priests have to go partly down the disc tree to get our bread and butter mana regen talents. Then we have a smattering of shitty talents surrounded by some nice. LOL well (lightwell), Confetti explosion (Holy nova), and imp death (spirit of redemption). The only thing that makes imp death worth it is the passive 5% increase to our spirit. We need more solid spells to make us more efficient, or at least make us stand out a lil more.
Shadow: Goody, just call us walking mana batteries that have NO mana efficiency. Hunters think you got it bad? LMAO! SPriests are the kings of mana inefficiency. All we want to be able to do is be slightly viable in PVP and not be buttonholed into two places in the game: raiding and lvling. Guess what we got to make us effective in PVP: fearward cast in shadow form. Goody....
(as you can probably tell, I play a priest ALOT)
Shamans: Same boat as the druids. I dont know alot about them, just that ONE spec is viable in PVP and only then in 5's. PVE suffers for it.
Before you guys go crying about how you are in bad shape, look at it this way: you have a solid way of dealing good hard damage to most people with no mana: your pets.
Look at your most often spammed ability: arcane shot. It rips a buff and then deals a ton of damage.
You have your ways of returning mana. Use it and be happy. So what if you have to be a bit more conscientious of how you use it. Start using mana oils and Mp5 food. Adapt. Everyone else is.
Axejess Mar 28th 2008 4:59AM
Look at your most often spammed ability: arcane shot.
You never played a lvl 70 raid hunter did you lawl. Most spawned is (with the 3:2 macro)
Steady shot
Auto shot
GG
And yes even before the 2.4 you could go oom really fast by spamming ss-ss-aa-ss-aa but where are anapotions/wisdom buf etc for? If it indeed is worse now ooh well more to QQ the RL that i want to be in group with a Shadow priest haha.
Diabla Mar 28th 2008 10:15AM
Please, before you comment on Druids, learn a bit about us. You just called us OP in PvP when the only representation and viability we have is as _Resto_. Both of our other specs are terrible to do serious PvP with.
As Resto, you're pretty powerful, but you definitely can't be "tank" or "rogue". As Feral you certainly can't heal (yes, we got the new change to our NI, but that's giving about 500 or so +heal. I'd rofl if you really think that's enough to do anything... a resto has 2-3X that)
Druids are not 61/61/61...
Gurluas Apr 3rd 2008 10:38AM
Did you notice that our pets are not made to deal damage?
my pet deals 100 damage on a season 1 warrior.
Pets are made to block you for 3 seconds, to tank mobs, and to become red and do 300 damage instead of 100.
Seriously pets are just tools, just like your wand is a tool.
Our weapon is our bow.
souvlaki Mar 28th 2008 3:58AM
There where no hunters on the PTR? I mean, the mana issues should have shown up while testing as this was one of the first announced changes. Probably a last moment tweak to the change?
(I can't decide if this i wrote is a fair question or a troll) :P
BTW .. I don't play hunters but i can see them using energy as a rogue. It makes sense, but after all of this time with mana its a major class change that would probably bring more issues, specially it would need lots of PVP tweaking which most people complain about.
Urdla Mar 28th 2008 4:18AM
What is this fighting and flaming on who got the must nerfed and most imba-class of the game all about?
I play two mains...a huntress and a paladina and i enjoy em both...some day more...some day less. All this classicm gets on my nerves, even because no player is born with one class...he can simply play the so called "imba-class" anytime he or she likes.
No one forces you to play the bad "always-nerfed" class...but maybe you guys got a masochism-problem! ;)
Tridus Mar 28th 2008 5:14AM
Most likely the real problem is something to do with Aspect of the Viper being accidentally changed or bugged. Spirit regen isn't involved, Hunters have no Spirit gear and were never out of the FSR anyway. It'd be pretty easy to figure out if a Hunter grabbed a mod like RegenFu and went out shooting things, watching mana regen ticks.
My wild guess at this point would be that Aspect of the Viper is being affected by one of the other changes, when it shoudn't be.
As for not stacking Intellect... QQ more? As a Holy Priest, half the stats on my gear are mana regen stats. The only thing you have to get is some Intellect. If you want a character that can spam abilities endlessly without ever running out of mana, try a Rogue.
Serio Mar 28th 2008 5:55AM
Ah, so that's what's going on. thanks for the info. I was having problems in long boss fights even with viper and an alchemist's stone.
soontobexwower Mar 28th 2008 7:14AM
"... because being forced to stand still to do damage wasn't fun ."
Yep. Running out of mana is not fun. We worked hard to get gear to bring out the best in our toons, now that gear is useless. We need mana gen and more intel.......
But isn't that the point? Make people mad so they will go complain together, find comfort in community centers, and they will never leave the game.
WTB Heckling Hunters Home Guild.
Razhlok Mar 28th 2008 2:10PM
I did Hydross, Lurker, Tidewalker, Fathom-Lord and Al'ar last night without running into any mana problems. I ran as I always do with AotH and drinking Fel Mana Potions when needed. I actually had less mana problems then normal. But, I had 376 Int when buffed with AI and Kings. I even broke 1500 DPS for the first time on Tidewalker. So that was fun. ;)
Dreadbeard Mar 28th 2008 9:04AM
Here's an idea...instead of screwing around with SPI formula that effects all other classes, reduce the freakin' mana cost for each of the hunter's spells.
Ashwin Mar 28th 2008 9:16AM
I wonder how this change will affect enh shaman who also don't stack much spi/int, I haven't heard them complaining yet, OFC that may just be because they are so used to getting nerfed by now.
ThorinII Mar 28th 2008 9:31AM
Yeah, they probably just went, "Oh look, nerfed again. Huh." LOL
Ashwin Mar 28th 2008 9:29AM
One more thing, how come NO HUNTERS noticed this on the ptr and complained about it like locks did with the life tap nerf?
vildand Mar 28th 2008 9:41AM
"Sorry guys, I can't really DPS for ten minutes."
Hmm, try specing survival because I can.
keepr Mar 28th 2008 9:49AM
Wow, look at all the hunters crying because there is finally some trade off for their huge dps.
JT Mar 28th 2008 10:15AM
It was pretty funny because as soon as I started up with the 2.4 patch, I hit level 20. So I went out grinding again and suddenly my mana was hitting rock bottom after each fight, when before I never had to watch it... and I was thinking "Damn, level 20 sucks"..
..didn't make the patch connection at first, haha.
Dilunae Mar 28th 2008 10:57AM
I have also noticed even with AOV on my mana regens very slowly. I was doing some daily quests and I ran out of mana even with viper on the whole time. Some people who are not hunters might not understand why this is annoying so let me explain: Most classes have some way or either rengenerating mana or getting it back quickly(mages with gems/evoc, paladins get mana back when they crit, priests/druids have tons of spirit, etc) Hunters have AOV and if it isn't working properly then we can't dps as well.
Maybe some of you don't appreciate what a talented hunter can do, but for those guilds who have them they know we can be top damage all the time everytime. Don't get me wrong if Blizzard wants to nerf this than I will just have to up my mana pots (which, by the way, I carry 30 pots of varying kinds so shut up if you have a comment about that), but the fact of the matter is a good hunter will lose mana faster than the pot cooldown. Why should we be the only class who can't gain mana back by some means other than potions? Because some level 42 huntard wanted you to run him through ZF so he could get the epic sword?