2.4 leaves hunters low on mana
Since patch 2.4, hunters have been having some problems. Aside from the outrage over the fact that our traps are now announced, we seem to be having issues with mana. On the forums, hunters are not seeing much love from the non-hunter crowd, but I suppose that is to be expected. It is important to note however, that our mana efficiency is an intended attribute of our class. We are useful, not solely, but arguably primarily, because we can provide sustainable, long-term DPS. No, we don't crit like mages. In a boss fight though, we can keep going after mages short out.
Why are hunters all of a sudden having issues with mana? There are a few theories floating around, but we have yet to be graced with a blue response. Take the jump to learn more about why this might be happening.When I first popped into game after I installed patch 2.4, I was pretty excited, as I had not explored the content in the PTRs. It wasn't long before I wondered why I could only kill one or two mobs before I needed a very serious drink. That just shouldn't happen to a hunter, especially not at 70.
Even my Aspect of the Viper, which I almost always wear, wasn't helping the issue much. So I hit the forums. It seems that I was not the only hunter affected.
At present, the likely suspect is this change, intended to help casters.
Spirit-Based Mana Regeneration: This system has been adjusted so that as your intellect rises, you will regenerate more mana per point of spirit.
That sounds fine, right? It should help the casters and even though hunters don't stack spirit, it just means we won't get the extra boost of regen. That's probably what Blizzard thought too.
The current estimation is that any hunter with less than 300 intellect is being negatively affected by the change. Despite some claims that only lowbie hunters will be affected, many 70s are being hard-hit.
Why are we upset that we might have to start choosing intellect enchants rather than focusing on other stats? A few simple reasons.
- Yes, we are a mana class. It was not always this way, and perhaps it should not be this way. We are much more like rogues and warriors than mages or warlocks. Paladins use mana because they are hybrids; melee casters with holy powers. Regardless, if we stack intellect with high priority, we lose a ton of damage. Casters don't.
- "So just slap on Aspect of the Viper." Well let's take a closer look at that talent, shall we?
- The hunter takes on the aspects of a viper, regenerating mana equal to up to 55% of <his/her> Intellect every 5 sec. The lower the hunter's current mana, the more mana will be regenerated. Only one Aspect can be active at a time.
- The beauty of this talent is twofold. First of all, it ensures that indeed, we do not need to stack intellect to have better regen. This is great because we ought not to be stacking too much of it anyway.
- The second benefit is that we don't need to have it up all or most of the time. Hunters
arewere built to be fairly mana-efficient. Under special circumstances though, Viper can be a great asset. - "So why not just wear it all the time now?" For one, it does not even remotely counteract the impact from this change. Secondly, we don't want to render every other aspect inferior. Aspect of the Hawk, which grants us +155 attack power, not counting Improved Aspect of the Hawk. For non-Beast Masters especially, the Hawk is a very important part of hunter gameplay.
- Intellect is one of the stats that does not buff our pets, unless you have a caster pet, which is not always advisable, partly because of the impact of intellect, and partly because of the pet's use of intellect. As BRK says:
- Hunter stats buff pet stats. A hunter's armor buffs his pet's armor. A hunter's ranged attack power contributes to his pet's Spell Damage bonus. A hunter's stamina contributes to his pet's stamina. A hunter's magical resistances buff his pet's magical resistances. Hunters and their pets enjoy a symbiotic relationship and all hunters need to be aware of this.
- So if we enjoy a symbiotic relationship, then while stacking stats that don't buff our pets, especially as Beast Masters, we are looking at trouble. All hunters collect intellect, but it is fourth or fifth on the docket. Agility, attack power, and stamina, in varying orders based on your spec and playstyle, most definitely come first, and by times, so do resistances. Our upper-end hunter gear often has intellect on it, but to a very reduced capacity. Why? Because otherwise we'd be over-stacking it.
- Hunter Mana Regen in 2.4.
- Hunter Mana Regen / AotV Broken.
- AoV not functioning. - Blue response suggests it is probably functioning, but they'll check. I think these concerns are really the result of the new int-based spirit regen system.
- Hunter + mana = broken.
- Hunters AFTER 2.4. A plea for action.
- Hunter mana regen massively reduced.
- 2.4 ruined hunter mana regen.
Unfortunately, this new change seems to be positive for everyone but hunters, rendering the likelihood that it will be remedied slim, or the nature creative. Although there are rumors that this will affect all caster lowbies, it will take time to see if other lowbie stats, like higher intellect and spirit relative to level and needs, will counterbalance it.
Blizzard is unlikely to reverse the change, but they might try to buff our mana regen in other ways. They could change Viper Sting to cost less mana, and funnel some of the mana into our own stores. They could buff Aspect of the Viper, although again, this would render all other aspects inferior.
Hopefully we will see a follow-up patch addressing some of the issues and bugs that are being experienced since patch 2.4 dropped, and with any luck, there will be a resolution for hunters. I'm not holding my breath though; we might get a "fix" that doesn't really fix much.
For further reading, check out the following threads:
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Bugs, Enchants, Forums
Patch 5.4 patch notes
Virtual Realms feature revealed
The Proving Grounds are coming
The latest patch 5.4 news





Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
xarnx Mar 28th 2008 11:44AM
As a shadow priest, i have no sympathy for your complaint that you use mana faster than you can regen it via potions and AOV. We chain chug mana pots 4 days a week in raids, and never encounter the FSR so spirit regen is either 0 or 30% if you've specced into the discipline tree.
And just think about it - you use pots unless you've got a SP in your group. We chain chug them despite the fact that we've always got one in the group.
Alhrah Mar 28th 2008 11:50PM
We dont normaly get nerfed this bad if anyhting, But this just killed us. I Noticed i wasnt able to kill more thn 3 mobs at a time w/o taking a drink and normaly i can take on 4-6 )if i heal my pet and use fiegn death to lose themob attacking me and pull onto my pet) but nowi cant and die more often. I think all blizzard would have to do to fix thiscontroversy between the "casters" and hunters, is to change the hunters to energy or something like it.
Diabla Mar 28th 2008 10:22AM
I always hate to see a class nerfed. Blizzard is bad in that way. Instead of bringing the other classes up to match the "OP" they knock said class down :( Idk if that's really the right way to do things.
This 'Go stack more Int' thing is the same line they fed Warlocks when they wanted to change Life tap...*rolls eyes*
WOWCOW Mar 28th 2008 10:27AM
I find it amazing that they put trap laying in the combat log. I dont have a Hunter but to me it seams silly. Its not really a trap if people know that its there! They should just get rid of the traps all together then and give them more shots like a frost shot that does the same as the frost trap......... O wait we already have mages, o well sorry hunters.
Diaz Mar 28th 2008 10:59AM
This should sort it out for you.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5591050109&sid=1
Angus Mar 28th 2008 11:24AM
Not just Hunters, FYI.
Enhancement shaman went from having little to no mana issues to having to play conservatively.
They fixed totem twisting by hosing our mana. With the new SR it got got even worse. It's about horrible. I either end up wasting a good 3 seconds of mana regen, or I wait the last 5 seconds on my CD with no mana to do anything.
darian Mar 28th 2008 1:42PM
I'm really confused.
As an enhancement Shaman, and correct me if I'm wrong, you should be alternating Earth Shock and Flame Shock every 6 seconds. Coupled with Storm Strike, you're spending less than 15% of your time outside the 5-second rule. How is Spirit-based mana regen remotely relevant?
I can perhaps see the issue for farming, where 10 or more seconds is routinely spent looting and working your way to the next mob. However, in most other scenarios I was under the impression that Hunters and Shaman spent nearly all their time under the five second rule.
Angus Mar 28th 2008 2:50PM
Normally we do, however there are times in almost every fight where you have to hold back on shocks because the boss demands you stop what they are doing. Shade is a perfect example. I will interrupt the stupid arcane because it does a ton of damage. I save my shocks for just that one move. So I have actually seen quite a bit of time during his fight and a few others with 5 seconds coming up. Additionally if you stormstrike just before a shock, you will not do anything again for 6 seconds. That's a single tick. It occurse about every 30 seconds thanks to 10 sec and 6 sec CDs converging.
Along with the fact that outside a fight I would regen mana fast enough to not care it made for an extremely reliable DPS that allowed me to make up for a lack of CC.
Finally, the new SR is so pathetic that I actually NEED better mana regen between pulls.
I hate you guys getting the shaft, but it really looks like they just didn't think this change through at all for anything but spellcasters. Heck, it doesn't really effect shaman so I think they forgot about people wearing Mail using mana.
Todd Mar 30th 2008 1:25PM
First they take away feign death/drink, and now this? I'll stop complaining about us Hunters taking it up the keister so Priests and Mages could get more mana regen when Blizz gives us that back as well as the ability to conjure water like mages.
All hunters and prot pallies should keep complaining about this until something is done to correct it. After all, it worked for Warlocks with life tap, and as no one has mentioned, all the QQ from the clothies got our pvp axe nerfed this last patch as well. And please don't even get me started about what Blizz did, whether intentionally or not, to our pet's ability to generate and hold aggro. Hunters are now much, much less viable than they were. Our capabilities in instances and raids were nerfed by the mana regen, and our abilities to solo were nerfed by the pet issues. Great Going Blizzard!!!!
I'm going play my warrior :(
Dilunae Mar 28th 2008 12:30PM
My point was you have a way to regen ur mana(spirit/shadow fiend). When BC came out alot of classes were given a way to regen their mana that they did not have Pre-BC. So what is the use of having AOV if it doesn't work like it is supposed to? Did you think about that?
Alot of raid shadow priests spec into discipline for the spirit buff. In fact that is how I alot of priests I see spec. Our mana regen doesn't start becoming effective until we are already low. Also, you must have missed it when I said if this is the change that Blizzard intended then I will roll with it. I for one am not QQing. All I am really saying is that everytime a patch rolls around something happens to a class that was not intended. This sort of problem is an annoyance, but not a show stopper. Also, I never have a shadow priest in my group. They are there for casters. Even with an S Priest I bet you I will be gulping mana pots.
As for Enhancement Shamans. I really do feel sorry for you. You guys can put out great damage, but have so little mana it's not funny. The only class with less mana is probably a ret pally, but they get it back when they are healed.
Anyways, some of you people need to chill out. I like how people who think they know it all will forum hop to tell me and other hunters how to play our class.
Incidious Mar 28th 2008 1:57PM
I had heard about this problem and i can say i have noticed it soloing though not as dramatically as some folks. I have about 6400 mana unbuffed and thats with 2 leather pieces with no int, 219 total. I mentioned something in gchat and our raid leader now say that hunters get priority on spriests. I ran hyjal last night with an spriest, resto shaman in my group and a ret pally with wisdom buff and no mana oil.
I had a hard time not being completely topped off i could go all out on waves after kiting my ghoul and wouldnt even need to drink i would be topped off by the next wave. i have 8200 mana buffed and would rarely go below 7k. I know its the ultimate regen group but it worked good for me. Unfortunately our new to hyjal guild didn't last very long against anetheron, damn infernals, to tell how it holds up in a longer fight but i had no problems on the waves and died too soon on rage, damn icebolt thing, to tell.
I would have to try this on a fight like hydross without a perfect group to really see the difference i never got the luxury of an spriest or resto shaman on that fight before. Hydross was tough already to keep up mana on with some little down time.
Ketaro Mar 28th 2008 3:32PM
You're kidding, right?
Not only do I have close to 300 int raid-buffed, there are few fights when I will be outside the 5-second rule in any case, especially on a boss. Between pulls, I have mana biscuits.
And fel mana potions are *sweet* for hunters.
A Raiding Hunter
Zan Mar 28th 2008 7:21PM
Our hutners have started using the S1 weapons with int enchants and mana oil on each for long fights and have little trouble.
Krianna Mar 29th 2008 1:29AM
I offer this post as proof that Hunters need the Nerf hammer.
Hard.
Most mages can only take two or three mobs before they need to drink...and hunters are upset by this fact?
Ashwin Mar 29th 2008 3:39AM
^^^Mages get free water, and vicious burst damage.
Krianna Mar 29th 2008 5:07AM
As opposed to hunters, who have a nasty burst damage,(regardless of spec, so stop that "POM pyro" strawman right here) a pet to tank or slow casters' casting timer, a dispel, a mana removal, some AOEs, CC ability, mail...and are now QQing about needing water?
Hunters are mages in mail with a pet tank, with a few abilities mildly nerfed and no need for mana to do damage.
WIldclaw Mar 29th 2008 2:16PM
Another group that is very much negativly affected by these changes is all low level characters that use mana
The level coefficents for low levels in the regen formula seems to be fitted for twinks instead of ordinary characters.
A level 20 priest/mage is expected to have 100 int and 80 spirit just to break even with the old formula. And hybrids just a little less than that. The coefficents for level 1 characters is simply sad. A basic level 1 priest with 20int/spi gets 16mp5 compared to the old 42.
It isn't like there is a lot of equipment around for level 1 characters to boost their stats, so you got to wonder what blizzard was smoking when they came up with the level coefficents for low level characters. One thing is sure. It must have been really good stuff.