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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsForum post of the Day: The Death of PvP Guilds
by Amanda Dean 
Mar 28th 2008 at 1:00PM
Laij of Laughing Skull believes that the new battleground matching system is a blow to PvP guilds. He said, "The new patch and matchmaking system has just nerfed the hell out of any pvp guild. Why run BG premades anymore? All you do is get matched up with other premades that are going to drag games out extremely long." Unsurprisingly, this was not particularly well received.
What is notable is that the thread has elicited a response from Drysc who said "Fair and challenging gameplay? The horror..." This comment opened Drysc (as a Blizzard representative) up to both criticism and support from readers. Some cheered him on for calling out the whining of the original poster, others said that class imbalance makes battlegrounds imbalanced.
The original poster's main complaint was that it takes too long for a premade team to win now. I have to disagree with this sentiment. The most fun I've ever had in a battleground was an Arathi
The thread is flame bait, but it's an interesting read. Has the new system improved PvP?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP, Forums, Battlegrounds
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Grumppy Mar 28th 2008 1:51PM
It isn't the fact that premades go against premades that is killing pvp guilds, its the fact that if you queue as a premade, you get like a 25 min wait for each bg. That is what is bullshit... a good pvp guild's premade will still steam roll a "pug" premade any day. The wait is what has gotten so many people upset.
Nick S Mar 28th 2008 1:45PM
the problem is that there are two competing ideals - the "fun" BG, and the honor reward system. grinding is not fun, or else it'd be called something else.
the purpose of a premade is to win quickly - maybe there are people out there who say "let's spend 90 minutes in a WSG enjoying fair and challenging gameplay!" but i haven't met them.
Matt Mar 28th 2008 1:58PM
I hadn't really thought about it before, Nick, but that strikes me as being exactly right. Yeah, I want the honor (just hit 70, and I desperately need some better gear), but it kills me to think of BGs as a just a grind--I'd much rather play to win than farm honor. Sadly for me, though, a lot of people are not like this (and that's not to say that they're bad people, of course, but just that their goals in a BG are different from mine). Maybe if we had two different kinds of queues--a "play to win" queue and a "farm honor" queue.
Chris Anthony Mar 28th 2008 2:20PM
@Matt, the problem is that nobody's going to sign up for the "play to lose" queue you'd need to make that work.
Mihn Mar 28th 2008 6:56PM
At least your honest. I seem to recall everyone saying to those complaining about premades to, make their own. Just pretend EVERYONE you face has made their own premade. There, problem solved.
Manatank Mar 28th 2008 1:59PM
I really can't believe someone would whine about this. They are really complaining about the idea that the system makes it so they can't slaughter the other side. Why should it be easy to win?
With the removal of diminishing returns I have been netting 500-600 honor in most BGs now. It doesn't really matter which side wins unless you are shooting for marks now. Playing defense in AV is not only good for your team, but your honor goes through the roof. Defense in general seems to be the way to go now. Stick with a group of other people, and wait for the other side to throw themselves into the meat grinder. You get tons of honor AND you probably win.
I also can't get over how much I love honor being instant now. I've been playing BGs so much more since 2.4 came out. It is actually fun. Part of what used to be so frustrating to me was knowing that a turtle would make the BG take forever with no reward. Now a turtle just means more honor.
Rowvina Mar 28th 2008 2:03PM
ThThis is easy to fix.
1. All sign up for BG number 17
2. All wear random greens when queuing for the BG
3. Change into your purplese once the BG starts.
Simple
Rick Mar 28th 2008 2:07PM
The matching system checks your inventory, bank and mailbox items. Nice try though
Dilunae Mar 28th 2008 2:31PM
I for one support Drysc's comment. How is it fair that premade groups can just steam roll past non-premades? I am part of the Nightfall battlegroup and it blows chunks. I know what you people will say "/wowquit, move to a different server" but before you think i am complaining, my witless friends, I am here to tell you I am fine with being on a shitty PVP server. I pvp in my spare time and love a challenge. If we are going to lose I would rather lose fighting. The problem with people lately is they want to have as close to god mode-esque abilities (like in the days of DOOM) as possible. Sorry twinkies, this is not how the game is designed. You can not /godmode your way to victory and can not /noclip into a fantasy world where you are not living in your parent's basement still trying to master the concepts of pre-algebra. You should have to fight other players tooth and nail like the rest of us do.
As for 70 premades...you either get organized or you fail. Period. Pairing premades with premades helps to ensure that it is not a question of gear, but of organization. PVP racials aside some people are just better at pvp than others. Yes some classes might be OP in pvp, but if you are well organized then you can neutralize those classes first. Not every premade you face will be well put together. Sometimes they pug it and have even less idea of what to do than a random group does. So suck it up, reinforce the mines...if the LM is taken then group up and move on. Try for the Blacksmith or zerg farm and for god sakes someone take out that paladin before killing the dps...he is healing the warriors!
Frosh Mar 28th 2008 2:35PM
...why is there a story on WoWInsider on a thread (and blue post) from 10 months ago? I love WoWInsider, but you guys have to be a little more on top of it than responding (and stirring up) necro'd threads...
Malachi154 Mar 28th 2008 2:54PM
good question... if 2.4 didn't see a change in the BG matching system, why submit this article??
WOWCOW Mar 28th 2008 2:55PM
What is the fun in a Pre-made vs a Non pre-made. Lets see an organized team Vs no organization. We are not just talking about a guild pre-made group but a PVP guild. Their whole goal as a guild is to PVP. Thats like taking Professional sports teams and matching them against average joes. ( wait that is a TV show) Yes sometimes the average joe wins but most of the time the pros win. I would bet that the same people that love the old system also like killing things 20 lvls lower than them.
bloodlight Mar 28th 2008 7:07PM
a couple of way to keep the BG more interesting. 1) premades only fight premades, in other words put in some effort, it the whiners who started the threat that make the term "welfare epics" actaully have meaning. 2) if the above in not in place. Honor gains by pre mades are diminished by the number of people in the pre made. (example a 10 maid premade in WSG get it battle honor reduced by 50%) and it honor for honor kills reduced by 70%) when facing a 100% pug foe. The penalty would of course be reduce if the opposing force had pre made componenets itself. 3) or remove premades all togther, put everyone one an even footing and wacth the queues get shortere since the matches are x random toons vs x random toons
of course I think areana should be done the last way, no preset teams, just sign up for a bracket, you get randomly picked partners and go for it. it eleiminates all teh spot selling, and team selling and most other forms of cheating. it eleiminate team rating which means little anyway, and leaves only a personal rating, and to be the best it forces you to be teh best with all other classes as partners not just a specific few.
guesswho? Mar 28th 2008 3:28PM
raiding guilds are dead, pvp guilds are dead....whats next?
Kalyke Mar 28th 2008 3:31PM
Grats on making an article on a nearly one-year old necro post.
I also don't understand why post of the day has to be a blue-commented post, seems silly. Most of interesting threads I read on the WoW forums, which isn't many, aren't the ones that blues post in.
About the actual topic, there was a change in 2.4 to do more strict matching of premade groups who queue as a group. This should help alleviate steamrolls of PUG groups by premades but lengthens the queues for premades, which sucks, IMO.
I think many PvP guilds and players will likely start to work around this by using mods like the Perform AV mod so that technically you are queue'ing individually but will have high probability of getting most of your group members into the same BG. I expect the Perform AV mod will be adapted for all BGs because of this change.
sam Mar 28th 2008 4:42PM
They're called pvp guilds but don't want to PvP against premades??
griffdog Mar 28th 2008 5:20PM
33 comments in and neither the person who wrote the article nor the majority of people making comments realize that this is a necro'd thread from nearly a year ago.
There is no 'new' matching system in BG's. It is the same as it ever was.
That particular thread is a running joke that gets necro'd every once in a while just to agitate people (as was pointed out by a previous person in these very comments).
Still working as intended!
Savant Mar 28th 2008 7:31PM
Actually there was a Blue post on the matter of pre-mades in 2.4 - the post from a while back was a discussion on the concept. There was a recent post from Hortus on this confirming the change. I thought it was common knowledge.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5591040181&postId=55906474499&sid=1#2
"The matchmaking system was tightened up for premade groups in 2.4 this will result in longer queue times unless there are similarly geared premade groups on the battleground for you to be matched against.
If you want to get into a Battlground quickly, queue up solo, if you want to play with a premade group then expect to wait longer. "
Palieus Mar 29th 2008 11:03AM
I LOVE IT TX U BLIZZ
Murch Mar 29th 2008 9:46AM
I love PvP. I play for the competition--the winning and losing--and the drama of a tight game! Kills? Honor Points? They take care of themselves in the long run. Why the hurry? Just to compete in Arena, NOW? Enjoy the game! You'll get where you want to be.
But I DO thoroughly disapprove of the Whiners. Yes, they've a right to have different goals than I do, pursued with different motivations, but I do sincerely wish they would not feel so stridently compelled to voice their mantra in the midst of battle, as if they are secretly ashamed.
My suggestion? Allocate 5,6 or 7 tokens to 1 for winning and losing. In fact, 10 to 1 sounds about right. And perhaps even require a fee--say 10 gold--to signup-- winners take all.
BTW, premades vs premades is a GOOD THING! Some of my fondest memories are of such epic contests!