Gamers on the Street: Who's winning AV and WSG now?
by Lisa Poisso 
Mar 28th 2008 at 4:00PM
I'll admit it: I haven't hit the Sunwell yet. My new main is a fresh 70 ("virgin" might be an appropriate word to describe her, except that – well, I PvP), and my guildies and I are simply overwhelmed with the number of things on our to-do lists right now. None of us is much interested in braving the crowds to see the new content; we'll get there once the furor has died down.
But 2.4 introduced more than just the Sunwell – we've got AV and WSG "fixes" in action! Did the fixes really fix these BGs? I have my own thoughts about AV (fine before, fine now; lots of imbalances still, but they don't prevent me from winning most instances when my team is with me), but I haven't had the time yet to get into WSG. Ever curious, I popped in on Wildhammer realm to chat with some of the folks gathered 'round the battlemasters and get their impressions.
Howlkyo: Level 70 Night Elf Rogue <Enokcuay>Gamers on the Street: What do you think about the changes? Have they made a difference in the balance of what happens in this battlegroup?
Howlkyo: With AV, it seems moving the horde back a bit did help, and since we still sometimes lose there, it seems that it was a fair move and made things a little more bearable there.
So the Horde normally won, before the patch?
"Normally" would be an understatement. I would say 9 out of 10, they won.
Oww. And what's it like now?
Seems more like before, pretty much even. A race to cap towers. Have a better chance, since they won't be waiting for us at Iceblood graveyard to destroy us like before, so we actually stand a chance now.
What's the normal tactic now, since the patch? I know in my own battlegroup, it's a pretty nice balance of D and O, whereas before it was always "All zerg the AS."
Well, as for tactics, I would say depends on who's in the BG. Sometimes we go 10 defense and 30 offense; other times, we go full offense because no one will stay on D. But mostly, it's take IB GY, cap towers, kill Galv and just keep moving forward
What about WSG? Done any of that since the patch?
Yeah, WSG seems the same, honestly. Still even. It seems the new patch didn't really affect that BG in a big way -- or at least not in a way that made me notice anything. Same ol', same ol'.
Well, hope things continue to go well for you. Thanks for your time!
You too, and thank you.
Saniel: Level 70 Gnome Mage <Desciples of Faith>Gamers on the Street: So what do you think about the changes? I'm talking with another Alliance player who says they've made a big difference in the balance of Horde vs. Alliance wins.
Saniel: AV was really unfair, and WSG used to get really boring because both sides would have the flags and the game would never progress.
What's the balance of wins? I heard pre-patch it was like 9/10 wins to Horde. Would you agree? And what about now?
Yes, 9/10 Horde did win, and about now it differs on the BG. WSG was about even, and we never won AV.
And that's all due to the repositioning of the Horde starting point, do you think?
Yes, I think that because we always got pushed back to our base and we couldn't stop them.
Have the warmaster/marshal stacking buffs posed a problem?
Not that I have seen.
Done any WSG post-patch?
Yes. They have been about even on wins and losses.
Has the change in flag-holding made much of an impact?
Yes. It helps because the flag carrier is a lot more vulnerable. We couldn't touch them, before.
Orciggans: Level 70 Orc Warrior <Azeroths Elite>Gamers on the Street: What do you think of the changes to AV and WSG?
Orciggans: I've only played a couple WSG and one AV since the update. Didn't seem too bad to me, but I see tons of people always complaining. (Note: Orciggans went into a WSG immediately after we initiated our conversation, which also explains the lack of a screenshot for him!)
I hear it's different in AV especially.
The AV I played in was a terrible Alliance, so once I'm up against ones that know what they're doing, then I might notice it more. Horde used to always lose AB, EotS and WSG and win 8/10 AV.
Do you like the changes to WSG? Have the flags been turning over faster?
Ya, I love the changes in WSG. LOL Dam man, sometimes it would just be nuts.
So the flag carriers who hold too long are getting shredded?
Ya, somewhat lasts pretty long sometimes. But is there a loophole: If they drop it to another person, does the percentage to damage go down?
I was hoping you could confirm that for me! LOL I haven't been in yet to see.
One sec, I'll ask guild. ... Nope, no one has noticed yet.
Drat. Ah, well -- enjoy your WSG!
Katham: Level 70 Undead Warlock <Thanx For Playin> Gamers on the Street: Who dominates AV in this battlegroup? Horde?
Katham: Kind of ... it all depends on the group.
Hmm -- so maybe it's actually more balanced now? Does that seem fair to say?
Yeah. Sucks though, 'cuz I love to roll Allies.
Aww. How has the new starting position in AV worked out for you?
I love it, man. It's so solid.
Really? Most Hordies seem to hate being further back.
It seemed like it went a lot quicker. IDK, man.
What about WSG? The flag rule helping keep the flag moving more?
Ugh ... We keep losing. Same with AB.
Maybe with your premade you'll have more luck. Anything else you've noticed different, good or bad, since the patch?
I love the new Great Honor quest.
Find out what's on players' minds in more interviews with World of Warcraft players, from 15 Minutes of Fame and Gamers on the Street. Filed under: PvP, Features, Gamers on the Street, Battlegrounds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jkuhn76 Mar 28th 2008 4:12PM
Horde winning most of the time in AV? Are you serious??? Pre-patch Allies win 90-95% of AV's and post-patch they still win 90-95%. Horde always seem to dominate WSG, Eye, and AB though so they can have their AV. I do hate when it is AV weekend or AV is the daily, but even with a loss almost every time, its still great honor.
Moketronics Mar 29th 2008 1:28PM
wish i was in your battle group - I've won less then 10 AV games ever I think.
baldbull Mar 28th 2008 4:29PM
Yea, the unfortunate reality is that the Alliance has always had a much easier time of defending their base than the Horde. The bridge leading into the Alliance base is the single best choke point on the entire map, especially due to the NPC's being able to shoot from the towers. All it takes is a small Alliance force constantly holding off the Horde here and that buys the Alliance enough time to win on offense.
Map inbalance? Sure. Horde advantages? Not really. The horde just knows how to play.
Chad Mar 28th 2008 4:35PM
That is certainly not the norm. I've done BGs now on 6 of the battle groups and all were the exact opposite you describe. Alliance would rarely win in AV and would usually win in the rest.
lusiphr Mar 28th 2008 4:40PM
sure makes me wish i was on those servers where horde won -- it's exactly opposite of what i read. on my server (daggerspine), our battlegroup won AB consistently, WSG and Eye seemed even (depends which team was skilled/geared/motivated), but we lost 90% of AVs. the only time i win AVs is when i get super-motivated and actually overcome all the people yelling at me for getting 10 to defense at IB choke. even then, allies will get by you and ninja all your flags solo, so you have to have a 2nd team ready to put out their fires. blah, now i'm QQing about the horde disadvantages...
funny thing to me is that horde has had to live with big disadvantages in AV since the beginning, but when changes give horde the advantage, Blizz rushes to fix the problems. why haven't they been so quick about fixing being able to jump over horde fences? being able to ride straight to Drek's keep, make a left just after it and ride down the alley way to lose all aggro -- now heal up and cap the GY, proving the saying that, at least on alliance side, one person really can make a difference? why don't they fix LOS on our archers or up their dmg or something? they fix one side's issues, but not the other's.
so what big disadvantages do the alliance have to deal with in new AV? there's still tons of horde issues -- are alliance happy with the map? still somehow disadvantaged? those interviewed in the article say horde won 90% of the time -- why did horde dominate on your battlegroups? was it just the forward starting place?
imparush Mar 28th 2008 5:32PM
you can say what you want about our bridge but every tower horde have will hit you, so balanced is hard to find, only if they make it the same on both side, then it would be balanced but also the same
Calaana Mar 28th 2008 6:59PM
Come to bloodlust. Your awesome defense is where we get held back while they cap everything behind and resource kill us. The map's even now, issue is with the players, and for bloodlust that means 90% of alliance that think they can one man the entire horde offensive... wtb people older than 12 pst!
ScorchHellfire Mar 29th 2008 3:02PM
back before the patch av was the only bg alliance was capable of winning on a regular basis... horde still won sometimes but not nearly as much as they destroyed us in the others... now it the other way and the freaking horde destroy us in av as well... to people in my bg blizz has taken away the only battleground alliance could win and that sucks... as far as wsg the debuff seems like it makes it take longer because the flag carriers die faster and thus no one ever makes it to the other side alive... basically both bgs have turned into more turtling and zerging... now horde is falling back and disrupting us while we are killing galv and the alliance keeps trying to do the same old rush... its like blizz was trying to get av to be the old way but they failed... big time...
cottoneyej31 Apr 11th 2008 6:42AM
I know, I really dont buy the "horde wins 9/10 AVs" Thats such bull. Ive played on 3 servers and its always the same alliance wins most AV's hands down. Why? Map imbalance, slanted greatly in the alliances favor.
ringu0 Mar 28th 2008 4:42PM
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php?id=7&lb=7&b=av
Alterac Valley
Horde: 654
Alliance: 693
"9 out of 10"? Hardly.
mike Mar 28th 2008 4:50PM
warcraft realms while a great idea, has never been anywhere near accurate. On my battlegroup shadowburn, horde won about 80% of av since 2.3 patch, since 2.4 it's about a 50/50 split.
Kris Mar 28th 2008 4:52PM
yes really.
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php?id=1&lb=7&b=av
ringu0 Mar 28th 2008 4:55PM
NO WAI
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php?id=1&b=av&p=8
Kalixian Mar 28th 2008 5:00PM
In my battlegroup (5), the Horde dominate AB and especially Eye, WSG is more evenly split and the Alliance domiante AV. In fact, I would say that the biggest domination is Ally in AV. I would consistantly win 5-6 games in a row in AV, and it was extremely rare to lose more than 1 in a row. I would say overall, Ally won 6/7 in AV.
Note, this was all pre-patch, I haven't really gotten into the BGs since 2.4
imtraum Mar 28th 2008 5:07PM
Patch 2.4 has turned AV into a turtlefest where Horde still loses most of the time. It's turned WSG into a midfield HK-farming-fest for at least half of the team and the games generally last even longer than before. AB and EotS are full of road-farmers rather than fighting at nodes.
I'm really hoping this is just because people are excited by the removal of diminishing returns and in a week or so will realize that they're not getting good honor HK-farming and would get better honor if they actually sit down and try to win the games.
jkuhn76 Mar 28th 2008 5:27PM
This is my battlegroup - Vindication
Alterac Valley
Horde 415
Alliance 844
Arathi Basin
Horde 458
Alliance 231
Warsong Gulch
Horde 835
Alliance 1,417
Eye of the Storm
Horde 160
Alliance 75
The percentages vary depending on what server you are on (obviously) but like I said earlier. AV is still clearly balance in the Alliance's favor (atleast on our server) but we pwn AB and Eye which are more fun than AV and WSG anyway.
lusiphr Mar 28th 2008 5:53PM
"imparush said...
you can say what you want about our bridge but every tower horde have will hit you, so balanced is hard to find, only if they make it the same on both side, then it would be balanced but also the same"
play on both sides and you'll see what i mean about the towers. towers on both sides are gnarly, but the last two horde towers have huge LOS problems combined with the fact that you can ride through the keep area without getting a bunch of npcs on you = win. on the alliance side, you start getting nailed halfway across the bridge and if you try to ride through and ninja the flags, you will get a train of npcs on you that will finish off what the alliance archers started. what does that mean? alliance towers are better, especially the last two on each side.
so again, what imbalances do the alliance have to deal with now that AV is "fixed"?
Manasseh Mar 28th 2008 5:53PM
I play on Stormstrike BG and I love the fact that AV is back. Win or Lose, I love AV and am having a ball just being able to queue for it again without seeing 2-3 hours as the "estimated time". Of the three I've done the Horde won 2 and lost 1. The first, however, was a race to the bosses which we won by less than 20% of the boss's health (according to our defenders). Both teams got respectable honor all three games and the queues were only TWO MINUTES!
I have also loved the new WSG increased-damage function because coordinated CC on the opposing team's healers actually makes a difference now. Fear, Polymorph & Cyclone can actually buy us enough time to take down the FC before we die ourselves to a graveyard rez.
I really think Blizzard is finally hammering out the kinks in the battlegrounds and the new "For Great Honor" repeatable quest is the perfect motivation to try them all!
WickedGoddess Mar 28th 2008 7:53PM
I play Horde-side and of the 6 AV's I played since the patch, we have only won one of them. But you know what? The wait has gone from over one (and frequently over two) hours to less than 5 minutes, so I am still getting way more honor even if I do lose.
ulgorok Mar 29th 2008 5:54PM
I have done each BG several time since the patch came out, and it could just be bad luck on my part....but I have lost about 99% of the bgs I've been a part of since 2.4. Horde gets pwned in everything on Vengance.