Build Shop: Paladin 5/8/41 + 7

Every Tuesday, Chris Jahosky contributes Build Shop, which takes a look into one of the many talent specs available to players.
Welcome back to the wonderful world of Build Shop! I've got a lot to say this week, since this is a spec that is near and dear to my heart (even though my Paladin is Protection spec these days) -- Retribution. I've tried to strip it down to the essentials (or what I think is the essentials) so that you can shift points around depending on what you want to do with it.
Welcome back to the wonderful world of Build Shop! I've got a lot to say this week, since this is a spec that is near and dear to my heart (even though my Paladin is Protection spec these days) -- Retribution. I've tried to strip it down to the essentials (or what I think is the essentials) so that you can shift points around depending on what you want to do with it.
Holy (5 points)
- Divine Strength (5/5) - Increases total strength by 10%. This is really the only talent worth taking in the Holy tree for this build. This talent allows you to stack strength with better returns than stacking attack power.
- Redoubt (5/5) - Damaging melee and ranged attacks against you have a 10% chance to grant you an increased 30% chance to block for 10 seconds (or 5 blocks, whichever comes first). In the off chance that you ever pick up a shield with this build, this will be more useful for tanking than Improved Devotion Aura.
- Precision (3/3) - Increases your chance to hit with attacks and spells by 3%. This talent is the reason to spec into this tree. Whether you'rePvPing or raiding, this talent has a use -- it's 3% less hit rating you need on your gear, allowing you greater flexibility with your enchants and gems.
- Improved Blessing of Might (5/5) - Increases the attack power bonus of Blessing of Might by 20%. A pretty solid talent that increases your buffing power -- a definite plus for groups.
- Improved Judgement (2/2) - Decreases the cooldown on your Judgement by 2 seconds. Being able to use Judgement more often means more damage in less time, so this can be a definite DPS increase if you're using the max rank of your damaging seals.
- Improved Seal of the Crusader (3/3) - Causes your Judgement of the Crusader spell to increase the crit chance of all attacks made against the target by 3%. Another DPS increase, this one effects your group / raid as well as you.
- Seal of Command (1/1) - Gives a chance to inflict 70% of your weapon's normal damage as Holy damage. This seal procs at a rate of 7ppm (procs per minute). As such, slower, high damage range weapons tend to see better returns with this seal. If you're Alliance, this is really your only damage dealing option if you're Retribution spec. Horde paladins should use Seal of Blood for PvE encounters, but both factions should probably useSoC for PvP for the burst potential.
- Conviction (5/5) - Increases your chance to crit by 5%. Almost every talent tree in the game has a talent like this. If you're going to be dealing damage, don't pass it up. A higher crit rate means more Vengeanceup time, and that means more damage dealt.
- Vindication (1/3) - Gives your damaging attacks a chance to decrease all of the target's stats by x%. This is a filler point, needed to advance further in the tree. There are other options available (Pursuit of Justice is handy if you like to PvP), but it's probably best to place this in whatever talent you think will be the most useful. You'll have 7 points left over with this spec, so start thinking now about what you might want (I list my suggestions further down).
- Crusade (3/3) - Increases damage caused to Humans, Demons, Undead and Elementals by 3%. Not bad -- a 3% damage increase to 4 of the 7 enemy groups, and also applies to PvP combatants.
- Two Handed Weapon Specialization (3/3) - Increases damage done with two handed weapons by 6%. A solid boost to your DPS output -- every bit helps, so don't pass this up.
- Sanctity Aura (1/1) - Increases Holy damage by 10%. Sadly, the effects of this [non-improved] aura are only really useful to you (or maybe another Ret paladin, if you're grouped). This will boost the damage of your SoC, and because we're about to grab the improved version, should be the aura you use most of the time.
- Improved Sanctity Aura (2/2) - The amount of damage caused by targets affected with Sanctity Aura is increased by 2%. This is a nice little group buff that also increases your own damage (it all adds up -- if we're fighting humans with a 2h weapon right now, we'd get a 11% damage bonus).
- Vengeance (5/5) - Grants a 5% Physical / Holy damage bonus for 30 seconds after you land a crit. This stacks up to 3 times for a total of 15%, which is most definitely a great buff. Don't skip this one! Having a decent crit rate will allow you to keep this fully stacked (assuming the fight lasts long enough).
- Sanctified Seals (3/3) - Increases your chance to crit with attacks and spells by 3% and reduces the chance your seals will be dispelled by 100%. Aside from the nice crit boost, this is a useful talent for PvP, since it keeps your seals from being removed by those purge-happy Shaman.
- Repentance (1/1) - Puts your enemy to sleep for 6 seconds. This has a minute cooldown and will break on damage, but can be used from range and is a prerequisite to Fanaticism, another essential talent.
- Fanaticism (5/5) - Increases the crit chance of all Judgements capable of a crit by 15%. In addition, it will also reduce your threat by 30% (unless you have Righteous Fury on), making it great for PvE fights where pulling aggro is a concern.
- Crusader Strike (1/1) - An instant attack that causes 110% weapon damage and refreshes all Judgements on the target. This is the first and only instant weapon attack available to paladins at the moment, so don't pass it up. Aside from increasing your DPS by giving you a new source of damage, Crusader Strike gives you something to do other than auto-attack in a fight, allowing you a greater degree of control over when you cause damage.
So, that leaves us with 7 points. You can put these anywhere you like, but here are some of the talents I like (and why):
- Sanctified Judgement (3/3) - Gives your Judgement a 100% chance to return 80% of the mana cost of the Judged Seal. This makes for some incredible mana efficiency, which is a good thing since as a Retribution Paladin, your mana pool will be quite small.
- Pursuit of Justice (3/3) - Increases your movement and mounted speed by 15%, and decreases the chance you'll be hit with spells by 3%. A very nice talent for PvP, since foot speed is something that paladins really lack. It also provides some protection against spellcasters by decreasing their chance to hit.
- Vindication (3/3) - This is mostly useless in raids and other PvE encounters because many mobs are immune, but it does work against players so is worthwhile for PvP.
That wraps up this edition of Build Shop, but I'll be back again next week. What do you want to see on Build Shop? Send me an email with your questions, comments, or builds and we'll talk shop.
Filed under: Paladin, Build Shop






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Josh Apr 1st 2008 6:14PM
Sanc Aura is also a huge increase to a prot pally's tanking. I know our prot pally fights to get the ret pally into his groups to boost his tps.
Rich Apr 1st 2008 6:16PM
Ummm...
Redoubt and 2h weapon specialization? You'd be better off picking one of those two. Sure, the tier 1 prot talents suck for ret pallies, but the Imp Devo Aura might actually be used in more situations unless you switch between sword and board and 2h alot.
Same goes for Imp Blessing of Might, you're better off with those points in Benediction. Smallish Mana pool + less mana on judgments = more judgments. Not alot of people ask for Bless of Might for group situations so its a waste of some talents that are more useful in a raid situation.
maybesew Apr 1st 2008 6:39PM
I agree with Rich. You aren't gonna tank with this build, but you might be in the group with one. A feral druid would love improved devo aura.
and same thing with benediction. I'd rather spend less mana then have better blessing of might.
Especially since, with the 7 extra points, you could get BoK from protection. If you look at the Filler points you chose, I'd rather have kings any day
Sylythn Apr 1st 2008 6:42PM
I'll weight in on a couple things - first, I'll second the Benediction/BoM swap - unfortunately you never get to put BoM up enough to make it worth it, and the mana is a huge issue. I'd say Santified Seals is almost a must have for the same reasons.
And lastly, with Kara/ZA/Badge gear, you can get your +hit up to 142 (where it needs to be without Precision) - so do that, and then use those points you freed up from Prot to get 5/5 Divine Intellect, further helping your mana issues.
Hallander Apr 1st 2008 6:37PM
I have to agree that Imp. Blessing of Might is a waste. 5 talent points for a paltry 44AP using max rank Blessing of Might. While it is a boost, I'd rather save mana on my spells than get that low of an AP boost, my advice to the readers, Stick with Benediction.
Xonate Apr 1st 2008 6:51PM
Hmm, I actually skipped Seal of Command entirely on my ret paladin. I find that using Judgment of the Crusader followed by Seal and Judgment of Righteousness, with Crusader Strike keeping the original judgement up, does far more damage, since it's every hit and not just a chance on hit. Of course, this was far more effective before they decided to remove all spell damage from ret paladin gear. *grumbles*
Residentevil72501 Apr 1st 2008 7:10PM
How could you be a ret paladin and not have Seal of Command? Your ret paladin is trash then bro sorry, i seriously almost died laughing when i read that.
Xonate Apr 1st 2008 9:08PM
Seal of Command is almost worthless. Let's do some basic math here. I believe the proc on Seal of Command was 7 times per minute. With an average 2-hander at about 3.30 speed, you're hitting the target about 18 times per minute.
So, at an average of 7 procs per minute, assuming it doesn't crit, you're looking at about.. 600-1000 bonus damage each time. So that's about 4200-7000 extra damage every minute.
Using Seal of Righteousness with a base Judgment of the Crusader procs every single hit. The base hits for about 200, and the judgment adds an extra 200-250 or so. So at approximately 18 hits per minute, with about 425 average damage, you're getting about 7650 bonus damage every minute. Also, you have to count the Judgment of Righteousness, which is an extra ~600 damage every 8 seconds. That adds ~4500 damage each minute. So with that, you're looking at an extra 12150 bonus damage.
Of course those are just averages, and there are chances that you'll get a crit or a string of Seal of Command procs, and may be able to do a fair bit more. But on average, the damage you can do with Seal of Righteousnes and Judgment of Righteousness, assuming you're using Judgment of the Crusader first, will be much higher than what you can do with Seal of Command.
Interrorator Apr 1st 2008 10:26PM
Xonate, there are a couple big problems with your argument. Calling Seal of Command 'almost worthless' is pretty ridiculous. You compare command/righteousness in completely different ways.
First, you ignore how often Seal/Judgement of command crits. With fanaticism and improved seal of the crusader, it is usually easily over 30%. Seal/judge of righteousness cannot crit.
Secondly, you do not take into account judging command every eight seconds for some reason, like you do with righteousness. And you should take into account that it is often judged while the enemy is stunned/incapacitated, adding even more damage.
Chronic Apr 1st 2008 11:03PM
Xonate, are you serious? Tell me you're not serious.
There's a few problems with your "basic math", namely:
* Your figure for number of swings doesn't take into account crusader strikes or other extra attacks.
* You accounted for Judgement of the Crusader in your Righteousness figure but not in your SoC figure. Why? SoC is holy damage just like righteousness.
* You accounted for actually judging the seal in your Righteousness figure but not in your SoC figure. Judgement of Command is actually the same effect as Judgement of Righteousness (instant holy damage) except MORE damage, as well as the fact it does *double* damage against stunned or incapacitated enemies. It's strictly better.
Seal of Command damage scales with your weapon damage (by which I mean your weapon dps itself as well as your attack power). What does Seal of Righteousness scale with? Your spell damage. Which you won't have any of, because none of your other attacks scale with it, and you'd be gimping your overall damage output by doing so.
Honestly, if you had actually tried any of this on live you'd probably have figured it out for yourself.
If you want to talk math, post an armory so we can actually compare, since your seal of command numbers seem to be pulled out of thin air. I'll be happy to go through the figures with you.
Asspigeon Apr 1st 2008 7:13PM
Improved Devotion Aura is a complete waste of points. Redoubt is extremely useful when you have to put on a sword and board for PvP purposes (rogues for example).
I do not agree with the improved Blessing of Might however, it is also a total waste of points. Benediction is much better in almost every situation.
Residentevil72501 Apr 1st 2008 7:15PM
And redoubt is a worthless talent for ret paladins, and we dont need Imp devo because thats what holy pallys are for. So its better to either get benediction, or spiritual focus, hell even divine intellect would work.
jaxson_bateman Apr 1st 2008 8:21PM
Hi, my name is Precision. Please try to select me without getting 5 points in tier 1 prot.
Xonate Apr 1st 2008 9:10PM
Precision really isn't that necessary and not worth spending points to get to in my opinion. Retribution paladins don't need a huge amount of hit to get maxed, and lots of DPS gear has hit now, especially since they took out the spell damage.
jaxson_bateman Apr 1st 2008 9:16PM
If you're not hit capped, it's pretty important to get, as all the str and crit in the world won't do you any good if you miss. ^^
That said, off the top of my head the difference between hit cap with and without precision is only 47 hit rating. If you look at gemming, that's ~47 str. So it's 8 talent points for ~100 AP (with Divine Strength), give or take. I'll leave it up to the individual as to how important that is. Though there aren't a lot of better alternatives IMO.
Chronic Apr 1st 2008 11:07PM
I guess it's worth mentioning that Precision affects spell hit too? Not that any retadin would be gemming for spell hit, but less judgement resists is some small amount of free dps.
WSL Apr 2nd 2008 2:28AM
Having recently respecced from prot to ret at level 64, this article came at just the right time.
Some advice would be nice:
Is this build useful for progressing to 70, or is it more useful for raids/endgame?
Is it worth investing 3 points for +15% speed when I already have that ever-useful Crusader Aura?
Which blessing could be better while soloing/duoing - Might (unimproved) or Wisdom?
Thanks in advance
Angus Apr 2nd 2008 9:02AM
I can answer the pursuit of justice one
Are you mounted when fighting?
;)
Unless they use travel form, ghost wolf, or mount up something you want to kill will not be able to outrun you. Several tankadin builds use it, it is that good. Being able to catch up to the mob means more time spent in melee, which means more damage.
Great for fights you have to run out and then back into.
It also reduces incoming spell damage slightly, which is always good.
Revanal Apr 2nd 2008 12:01AM
I'm a relative pally noob, but I want to get into endgame raids and the like with Ret (don't laugh please :( ). I was looking at something more like:
http://wowhead.com/?talent=sxxuoMZZVfot0cuiIot
I'm not quite sure if the points in holy are well laid out, but because this would be my main, avoiding respecs was part of my goal--thus the Spiritual Focus and Healing light. My other thought was take the Imp LoH and drop it into Divine Intellect. I like the build suggested in the build shop, but OOM is something I experience a lot of now, so I'm worried that dropping benediction would gimp me hopelessly.
Thaelus Apr 2nd 2008 10:38AM
@ 17
Remove the 5 points from Spiritual Focus and reslot them in Divine Intellect increasing mana pool by 10%. As a ret pally in raids, u shouldnt do much healing, especially while getting beat on by mobs. The mana boost is better IMO because it translates directly into damage output.