Warsong Gulch changes may not have helped much
by Mike Schramm 
Apr 2nd 2008 at 3:30PM
Aloud on the podcast last week, I wondered if the patch 2.4 changes to WSG had made a difference (I haven't been able to make it in there yet -- too busy writing about Hello Kitty Online, of course), and now maxomi is wondering the same thing: since the changes dropped, has WSG actually been fixed?Unfortunately, from what we're told, the answer is no. The changes, designed to cut off turtling and players who ran around with the flag without capturing it, first made the enemy flag carriers trackable after 45 seconds, and then gave a damage debuff to the flag carrier after ten minutes (which doubled at fifteen). But all the reports from players say that makes no difference -- people still turtle away, even with the tracking and debuff, and eventually both drop the flag and the whole thing resets.
So what's the solution? If you crib some notes from other capture the flag games, a match timer sounds like the best option, and indeed, that's what most people are suggesting. Blizzard would have to determine how long to tune it, but the idea would be that after a given amount of time, if there was no winner, the match would end in a draw, with both sides losing in terms of a reward. It doesn't seem like Blizzard can force players to fight, so the best option overall might be to just call it in a time limit, and keep the matches from going on for long amounts of time.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP, Battlegrounds
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Silverlynx35 Apr 2nd 2008 3:37PM
Match timer. Team with the most caps wins. Seems reasonable.
Vort Apr 2nd 2008 3:47PM
So what keep you from capping once and turtling the rest of the game?
I say call it a loss for both teams only difference is you get the honor from the caps you have just not the bonus honor from a win.
Pzychotix Apr 2nd 2008 4:45PM
Nothing.
And that's perfectly fine.
Name one sport where the end is defined by the players and not by time, and I'll give you a dozen where it's the opposite. Soccer, football, basketball, etc.
Malyfactian Apr 2nd 2008 4:54PM
I like it. Makes perfect sense.
Teraka Apr 2nd 2008 5:15PM
Tennis, Ping Pong, Pool, Darts, Raquet Ball, Volley Ball, Your Mom, etc.
DaleMox Apr 2nd 2008 5:46PM
"Your Mom"
Hahaha, thanks mate that was such a laugh. Oh and "pwned" @ Pzychotix. :)
CJ Millisock Jul 17th 2008 1:58PM
I could've told you this a long time ago.
Blizz is so dumb. lol
native Apr 2nd 2008 3:44PM
/agree
Fabled Apr 2nd 2008 3:44PM
I ran a several WSG last night. It isn't perfect but it is MUCH better than it used to be.
Melenor Apr 2nd 2008 4:36PM
I've run many since 2.4, and quite honestly I detect no difference. It's always the same everyone-on-defense or turtle game that lasts 45 minutes or more, at the end of which we lose (of course) and I end up with 34 honor in HKs. I cannot stand the place and hope they add a timer at the very least. A 5-minute timer.
Green Armadillo Apr 2nd 2008 4:53PM
I also had a much less painful WSG experience than expected - I actually wound up with two more marks than the gear I was after required, so I was able to redeem them for 600 honor, making the evening even semi-profitable honor wise. I think part of that may be due to the change to matchmaking - the game won't match groups of more than 5 people against Pugs anymore, and Pug vs Pug matches are more likely to feature two teams that both want to get their marks and get out.
The issue with a time limit on the match (either reinforcements or an actual ticking timer), which I'd otherwise support, is how you're going to divide up the spoils in the event of a tie. Somehow, I doubt Blizzard is going to a match award more than four marks total. If you split the marks 2-2 for a tie, you'd actually be increasing the incentive for a double turtle, but declaring both sides losers would arguably be worse than the current situation.
Callandra Apr 2nd 2008 3:44PM
What about just adding a reinforcements number ala AV?
300 reinforcements. 1 cap = 100 reinforcements. 1 HK = 1 reinforcement
Wolfkin Apr 2nd 2008 3:48PM
Seems very reasonable, but I wonder if Blizzard would re-use the same mechanic for two BGs. Right now they seem set on having the objective of each map be slightly different.
V Magius Apr 2nd 2008 5:03PM
Don't see why they wouldn't EotS is basically AB with fewer nodes and a flag.
If they set a timer, I'd say 30minutes. That's about max anyone wants to be there. Winner is whoever got closer to winning. Draw gets one token, both sides lost.
Wolfkin Apr 2nd 2008 3:45PM
I really haven't done much WSG in about a year. How do the returns for winning the game compare to the returns for straight player-kill honor now that the diminishing returns have been restricted? I know that in the old days, the only reason to play WSG at all was to jump in with a 10 man premade, roll 3-0 through about 80% of your matches, and pick up quick honor that way. And even then, the amount of honor earned for a win was relatively small (and rightfully so considering how little time we would spend to get the victory). I suspect that unless the reward for victory becomes bigger, turtling/HK farming will still remain popular.
Hildar Apr 2nd 2008 3:45PM
Part of the problem is that the debuff timers do not reset after the flag is dropped. Once the initial debuff occurs at 10 min, all flag carriers are vulnerable. This makes defending the flag that much easier and turtles ensue. A fix is needed or no one will play that BG anymore unless they need the marks.
Raaj Apr 2nd 2008 3:56PM
Pretty sure they already fixed that stuff.
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/03/30/hotfix-roundup-for-sunday-march-30/
Pzychotix Apr 2nd 2008 4:47PM
@Hildar:
Read what you just wrote. Once flag carriers become vulnerable, it becomes EASIER to flag turtle? Nuh-uh.
Pip Apr 2nd 2008 6:50PM
No he's right - 2.4 did not reset after the flags were dropped but after 2.4.1 that's fixed - thank goodness. Played through a 2 hour game after 2.4 and thought "This patch is screwed up!!!".
You did have to "turtle" in the sense you had to rush the flag room and mass you way out because with the debuff, the FC could not run and could basically be one-shotted by any twink around. We had to drag that last flag back, dropping and picking up the flag about 7 times across the field...........
Steve_S Apr 2nd 2008 4:03PM
Simple. 20 minute time limit. Each team gets one mark per flag captured with a minimum of one mark regardless or score. More bonus honor if you win.