The Care and Feeding of Warriors: Playing with talents

The other day, while grinding some of the new Sunwell Plateau dailies on my PvP warrior (this is him just before getting his season one shoulders) I happened to get into a discussion of specs with a warrior who had chosen a 51 point fury/ 10 point protection spec. It didn't last long enough for me to ask him why he chose that spec, unfortunately. Being that my 'PvP' night elf has a pretty unusual spec himself, although not as unusual (in my case, that spec is the result of wanting soloing viability for skinning mobs and I freely admit it is not maximized for PvP, I just haven't wanted to spend the money to respec a character I don't play all that often, comparatively) I was interested in the why of that spec.
There are cookie cutter specs, of course, and one of the reasons that there are cookie cutter specs is because they work. I'm going to emphasize that. The reason for cookie cutter specs is because they work. There's nothing wrong with choosing one. Tanking with an 8 arms/ 5 fury/ 48 point protection spec is nothing to be ashamed of. But since you're not always tanking, and you're not always going to be running with your Arena team where you've essentially promised them you'll be at your best, there are times when you can sacrifice some efficiency for experimentation. And with the new dailies, coming up with 50 gold for a respec is not hard. I've respecced my human warrior six times since the IoQD quests dropped.
To some extent, respecs are necessary to learn the in and outs of your talents. Yes, there are online guides and forums you can go check out, and I recommend that you do. But no matter how much a self-appointed blowhard like myself rants about this or that, you really can learn quite a bit from going to the trainer, dropping some gold, and selecting the talents you're curious about yourself. If you're careful with your respecs as you level, you can even get in some experimentation before you reach 70.
Granted, the game has been out since 2005. And even though the talents have been changed numerous times (remember Punishing Blow? No? It's Mocking Blow now.) there's been a lot of work done on what these talents do and how to best combine them. You may feel daunted, or that there's no point in trying to reinvent the wheel. It's a fair statement, but for my perspective we're not trying to reinvent jack here. When I play around with specs and talents, it's an attempt to put that which I have read into practice, the difference between reading a Chilton book and actually taking stuff apart. No one's telling you not to read the book, I'm just saying don't stop there.
For instance, here is a fury/prot talent build I tried out this week for PvP and grinding. It has some weaknesses... the lack of any points in arms meant that it's not really viable for tanking, as it lacks points in the Deflection talent. Trust me, 5% to parry from talents is very hard to lose if you're going to tank anything. While Concussion Blow is a fine talent, it's not making up for the loss of mace specialization in PvP. The DPS is good, but it could be better, and the protection talents didn't really provide enough survivability to make up for it in my opinion. Now, you can probably tell all that by looking at it, especially if you're an experienced warrior, but by taking it out for a spin I got to evaluate it.
For one thing, it's actually a pretty fun spec. Talented slams on a PvE opponent can wreck faces, grinding time can be extremely fast with it, especially if you conc the target to be sure he's not going anywhere. Secondly, with sweeping strikes, imp whirlwind and imp cleave working with a big 2h weapon (I chose Gorehowl for these tests because it's the weapon I have enchanted, I'm cheap and always prioritize my tanking gear over my DPS gear) you can unleash unholy devastation on a group of targets before switching to a nice big slam to finish a poor sucker off, if you have the rage. And you usually will, I found. I consider the spec flawed, but it was fun to play with and get a sense of what worked and what didn't.
I then tried the following spec for tanking. It's kind of a mish-mosh. On the up side, precision and weapon mastery are nice talents for tanking. It has deflection, which I consider a necessary talent for almost any tanking spec (as I rarely gear for parry) and bloodthirst does some decent threat with this set-up. Decent, but let me be honest: you're not going to be forgetting devastate anytime soon. To be honest, this is a great spec for instances you really outgear, as you can mix a bunch of DPS gear into your tanking selection and maybe even dual wield tank the place with crazy bloodthirsts, but it's not a viable build if you don't have the gear to support it, and it doesn't really do any of the things you'd want to do with it as well as a dedicated build would. However, it could definitely offtank better than a standard DPS build, so if you want to be able to wreck faces in PvE, be annoying in PvP and still tank it's got its charms. In the end I switched away from it, but I'm still tinkering with variants in my head and I'll drop the gold to play with one in a day or two.
What I'm ultimately getting at is that playing with your talents is fundamentally part of playing the game. Yes, your guild is going to require you to be dependable for the role you're expected to play: you shouldn't show up to tank your raid's first attempt on Rage Winterchill in a wacky DPS spec you just made up to see if it works. But experimentation on your own time is valuable to give you a sense of the nuts and bolts behind what you're doing, even if it takes leveling four warriors to 70. Okay, no, not really, only a total maniac would do that.
Next week... a surprise post. Trust me, it's a surprise.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Talents, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Thander Apr 4th 2008 2:48PM
I've done a lot of experimentation. It's pretty fun to try out different specs. Most classes are limited though. Certain talents are pretty much useless in all cases. And the weird specs will never do as well as the cookie cutter ones. When it comes down to it, experimentation should just be used to have fun. It can never be a serious spec.
Samora Apr 4th 2008 3:03PM
I tried that last tanking/DPS spec as an off-tank early into my guild's adventures in Kara. It worked really well for times we needed a tank, and at the time, added enough DPS to be a contributing member. I called it The Hybrid Tank spec. I could tank relatively well, dps relatively well and kill things for farming, etc.
Playing with talents is definitely a must.
Cetha Apr 4th 2008 3:24PM
"When it comes down to it, experimentation should just be used to have fun. "
shouldn't the whole thing be for fun? it's a game...if you aren't having fun all of the time...go do something else
Green Armadillo Apr 4th 2008 2:59PM
My warrior is relatively cookie cutter (there's a limit to how much creativity you can show at level 30 ;)), but I have run a number of non-cookie cutter specs on other characters that would get flamed into the ground if posted publicly. I don't raid, so I don't need to stack hit rating and talents to reach the hit cap (and am free to spend points on things that raid bosses are immune to). It's unfortunate that so much of the game revolves around heavy min-maxing, because there's actually a lot of fun talents and abilities that don't see much use because they suck for raiding and/or high end PVP.
Krick Apr 4th 2008 3:04PM
The last time I checked, this was an online video game and the point is to have fun. If fun to you is attempting to tank "outside the box" spec-wise, then go for it and don't let other people tell you how to play. Very very few talents are completely useless. I've tried out some wacky talent builds on my tankadin when I hit 70. The weirdest was having ZERO points in anticipation (+20 defense skill) and ZERO points in deflection (+5% parry) while still staying uncrittable and uncrushable through careful gearing. That gave me 10 extra talent points to play with. I successfully tanked a bunch of heroics that way without problems. Eventually, once I hit Kara and started getting gear without as much defense on it, I couldn't maintain that spec and stay uncrittable and uncrushable while using my stamina trinkets.
...
Krick
http://www.tankadin.com
huangism Apr 4th 2008 3:13PM
I have all my points into fury except for 2 in prot for bloodrage and with the same gear i out DPS any other warr build. this is a PVE dps build
kevin Apr 4th 2008 3:49PM
you must know some really, really bad fury warriors then.
lilred Apr 7th 2008 8:26AM
you are kiddin right? that is the most ignorant thing i have heard in a long time. Even more ignorant than the crap rossi spews about his horribly geared and experienced warriors.
huangism Apr 4th 2008 3:18PM
crazy bloodthirst tanking? what are you talking about? bloodthirst doesn't get any more crazier than 30 health per hit for 5 hits
huangism Apr 4th 2008 3:53PM
no i mean i out dps any build warrs so arms or the 17/44, with same gear pure fury is much more efficient for PVE
kevin Apr 4th 2008 3:55PM
like i said, you must know some terrible terrible warirors if you're outdpsing them with a full fury build. there's no point to go full fury. i'd like to see an armory link, too.
kevin Apr 4th 2008 3:53PM
i know some people are into the 8/5/48 prot spec, when when I DO spec protection, i go with 11/5/45, and switch the points out of imp sunder into imp thunderclap. Personally, i feel it's the way to go, unless you're using a Thunderfury. My devastates cost 12 rage, but it works just fine.
Matthew Rossi Apr 4th 2008 5:03PM
All I take in arms is Deflection and Imp TC. I don't bother with Imp HS because I'll open with cheaper Devastates and then use HS to help dump rage later.
kevin Apr 4th 2008 5:15PM
that's cool, never thought of it that way, maybe i'll try that next time i tank. thanks. oh, and for huang, here are my armory links:
Warrior
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drak'thul&n=Cyrusdavirus
2030AP
30.52%Crit
143hit
Priest
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drak%27thul&n=Jimmypop
994 shadow dmg
10.59% crit
9600 mana
my account was hacked a couple days ago, my 70's were x-ferred to different servers and accounts. for some reason, they're wearing a mish-mash of my old gear and new gear.
huangism Apr 4th 2008 4:45PM
i dunno how to reply on this forum, probably cuz i am not a permanent member but i found myself on the armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Shadow+Council&n=Proeliator
doyesac Apr 4th 2008 5:34PM
I just want to point out that all cookie-cutter specs started as experiments. It was the process of experimentation, of comparison, of seeing what goes well with what gear and in what role, that led the warrior community to figure out which cookies... um... deserved to be cut. Or were tasty. Or... whatever. Dumb metaphor anyway.
This has relevance since we are ramping up toward the next expansion. We're in the middle of the soft gear reset, there are rumors about beta pages seeing clandestine activity... This means that the cookie cutter specs of today will be no more than the control groups for the further experimentation that leads to the cookie-cutters of the future.
Wisakedjak Apr 5th 2008 1:11AM
I think the weirdest one I've tried out to this point is a shield slam spec (stack every bit of shield block rating you can find, then smack a squishie with your shield... the results can be rather hilarious- check youtube for examples.) For a long while as I was leveling, though, I went with a 31+/0+/21 build that got some rather strange looks. Great fun, though.
Kees Apr 5th 2008 2:24AM
well I've never been this extreme into experimental builts, but there are some of my personal favourites
12/5/44 - My own personal tanking built, whenever I'm not supposed to be in SWP
11/5/45 - My current normal MT spec (http://armory.wow-europe.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodscalp&n=Kooz)
21/40/0 - A roflcoptor spec, 2h fury without a weapon talent is awesome farming with bloodthirst :)
33/28/0 - Standard 2h pve built, specced for most debuffs (impr. TC/impr. demo)
35/23/3 - most versatile pvp built (imo) that I use in arena's
8/39/14 - Could be a built I'd like to go with on wotlk, just for some additional tanking posibilities in instances, but excellent grinding capabilities afterwards.
Pavid Apr 5th 2008 11:26AM
I'm not that interested in trying to make prot/fury hybrid pvp specs because I think they're silly. I'm more interested in experimenting with more practical specs like dual wield MS or just a good old fashioned dw fury pvp spec. Or maybe even an endless rage build which I'm worried the devs are going to force on us in the future.
I'm really sick of only having one viable pvp spec. The currrent variations in actual viable builds is pathetic. The only decisions we really have is whether or not to get TM or flurry. How lame.
I really really miss my old dw fury pvp warrior who could both rape in battlegrounds and own damage charts in raids. Hell I could even main tank 40 man raids in that spec. Those were the good old days that I miss so much.
I really want them to give us a second viable pvp build that DOESN'T include mortal stirke and a 2hander. I want a viable fury pvp spec again. They should give bloodthirst a healing debuff so we could spec dw fury again and still be viable. That would be sick. Or even a pvp prot spec as viable as feral druids are in the arena.