An "insightful and thoughtful" look at Hunter DPS from the forums
Despite the fact that my level 70 Hunter isn't technically my main, she's probably my favorite character. A lot of people will tell you that a Hunter is an overly easy class: sic your pet, turn on Auto Shot, and you're done. While having a built-in tank that you can even heal a bit gives you a pretty strong advantage when going it alone, I'd have to say they oversimplify things a bit.
The largest area where the complexity of the Hunter class shows is in end-game DPS. If you want to be the most effective DPSer possible, it takes quite a bit of work. The way that you must weave shots in between your auto shots is a complicated dance that requires split second timing that can mean vast differences in DPS totals between Hunters. Cheeky of the Khadgar-US server (author of the famous Cheeky's Spreadsheet) posted a very concise and well-stated summary of some of the problems with Hunter DPS on the official US forums here a few months back. The post was originally written by Lactose of the Talnivarr-EU Server, who posted it on the EU forms here, where it got some blue love today a while back.
The problems that Lactose lists are well known to most high end Hunters, and many of us mentioned them in the recent feedback request posts on the class forums, but Lactose and Cheeky have managed to sum them in an easy to read and understand list, like so:
1. It's possible to delay Auto Shots while using other abilities.
2. Steady Shot has constant cast time regardless of weapon, while Auto Shot has a variable cast time.
3. Highly susceptible to latency/frame rate issues.
4. Haste greatly enhances other problems.
In short, since Auto Shot can be "clipped" or pushed back by other abilities such as Arcane Shot or Steady Shot if they are used within its invisible 0.5 second cast time, you have to time the special abilities to go off perfectly in between auto shot cast times, while leaving as little downtime as possible so that you're shooting off a steady stream of DPS.
However, since Autoshot's speed can change so easily due to class-specific speed boosts like Rapid Fire and Improved Aspect of the Hawk or outside influences like Heroism or Drums of Battle, you may have to change your shot rotation in midstream to account for your new weapon speed.
Of course, you also want to make sure your total haste rating and base weapon speed is optimal for your shot weaving choices. In the case of Beastmasters, this means a Karazhan gun, the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle, will end up being arguably better than most Tier 5 ranged weapon drops, and the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes will probably be better for them than the Black Bow of the Betrayer. It also means that all that haste rating that seems to be going on new gear lately can turn out to be a liability if it throws off your Auto Shot speed and makes it harder to properly weave in shots.
Finally, you also have to worry about your connection's latency. If it takes you a split second longer to send information to the game, you can start clipping Auto Shots when you tell the game to fire off a Steady Shot, meaning that your optimal 1.7 Auto Shot speed suddenly needs to be 1.9 to account for your latency. All in all, it's a major balancing act that to go through, and one that feels like it needs to be simpler.
With Lactose's version of the post (Seriously, you should read it) getting some love from Vaneras, we can only hope this means good things for Hunters in the future. I know many of us would love to have a DPS method that does not involve careful balancing of weapon speed and haste and an almost mandatory need for a super-fast internet connection. Perhaps in WoTLK, We'll see another change?
Filed under: Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Expansions, Raiding, Talents, Forums
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Psychosis Apr 8th 2008 4:39AM
I never use macros when shot weaving, i do it all by hand, quartz lets me see auto shot timers so i can place in a steady shot when needed
Kirrina Apr 8th 2008 9:12AM
Shame the post was written last year - December 2007 - and not a great deal of action on Blizzard's part.
My advice: use quartz, read elitistjerks, use Cheeky's spreadsheet, practice on Dr. Boom or the blasted lands Servants.
Del Apr 8th 2008 9:37AM
FIrst off, in our guild we have a BM hunter that puts out 975= dps at every raid and instance, and that's in T4 and under gear, even though we have kara on farm and are headed that way for ZA. But given that, he's also useless for anything else but cranking the dps.
I think a hunter should be more than the sum of their dps. Personally I run a MM/Surv for flexibility. Great cc abilityand good dps, the build allows my pet to die without destroying my output. I'd run Surv/MM except that we already hav one raid spec. I also use daggers... Take that Status Quo!!
As it is, my guild is very happy with that level of flexibility that I bring to the table, and earns me more raid and instance spots than our pure dps hunter.
Super_Duck Apr 8th 2008 12:09PM
In most raids you'll have mages/warlocks to do the cc anyway.. also 3% damage for the party is not at all useless
Clearthinker May 12th 2008 8:54AM
Thank you Memzer. I'm happy someone with sense and a position in "true" end-game (ie: post-SSC/TK) spoke up and posted a comment.
My guild has recently made its first attempts on Archimonde. We, the BM hunters, are geared out to the best we possibly could be short of T6. We've crafted T6 items, farmed kara for badge loot.
On any given single encounter boss or sustained trash pull, I'm putting out, on average, 1350-1400 dps, assuming I can just stand around and pew-pew. I've seen my avg dps spike to well over 1500 with an optimal dps group composition. I'm easily 1st and occasionally 2nd, again, depending on who the boss is. If I've had a bad go on a specific boss, you can be sure BM hunters are rounding out at least 2 or 3 of the top 5 dps spots.
Speaking with the uber geared hunters of my servers top guilds, in Sunwell, the BM hunters are putting out an easy 2000-2200 dps.
From what I've seen, the only classes capable of keeping up are Locks, Rogues and maybe elemental shammies. I've heard Mages can do it too -- but I havent yet seen it.
If you're MM - and you're able to do high dps - you'll be laughing when you switch to BM. Made the switch very recently and gained an easy 400 avg dps, with less mana consumption.
And the points in this article, as specifically mentioned, are well known to end game hunters. If you read the article and thought, "ive never noticed these issues before"... then I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're not an end-game hunter.
To be clear - I'm not saying hunter is the obvious winner from top dps in the game, but it certainly competes, hands down.
PsychoChris Jun 20th 2008 11:38AM
Excellent article, but the comments that followed were, for the most part, a testiment to why hunters get such a bad names.
My definition of end game raid = raids beyond SSC....sloppy heroic geared teams can clear Gruul and Mag.
Key points to keep in mind:
1) End game hunters, BM>SV>MM. If you disagree...learn your theorycrafting, and spend more time reading, less posting. (elistjerks.com for a free education)
2) If you aren't competing for a top spot on the dps charts (Recount, NOT DamageMeter) you are not doing your job.
3) Yes other, non BM hunters will out DPS BM hunters when all things are NOT equal. (gear/skill/exp/addons/lag) BM will dominate when all things are.
4) If you are still running with the thought process that your utility makes up for your lack of damage, you are not ready for end game raiding. There are utility classes that will be responsible for that (and they are much better at it), your job is to DPS! (and traps post Kara are garbage anyway)
5)Keep in mind that BM's are not just dominating others on the charts but "Ferocious Inspiration" is pushing the group DPS way up too.