Challenging Chilton on old world PvP nostalgia
by Mike Schramm 
Apr 15th 2008 at 8:00PM
Players are reacting to (quite a few things, actually, in) the Tom Chilton interview we linked to earlier, but one of them is rubbing a lot of older players the wrong way -- when Gamespy asks Chilton about world PvP, like the kind that took place between Tarren Mill and Southshore, he called any fondness for that "nostalgia" -- he says that people didn't really like it at the time, they only want to go back to that because they're nostalgic for it.Fortunately, we here at WoW Insider keep all of our old archives online, and as you can see, most people did actually enjoy the old Xroads and SS/TM world PvP -- I have fond memories of fighting in Ashenvale as well. But Chilton isn't wrong that there was complaining (isn't there always?): it was usually just complaining that those were the only places any real PvP happened. Nowadays, we've got BGs and Arenas, and actual rewards for world PvP, but it's still a little hard to come across one of those all-out battles that used to rage in Xroads or south of Tarren Mill. Most of the time, the only reason those battles were going on was because, well, what else did you do besides raiding at 70? Now that there's more choices, no level 70 would waste their time fighting lowbies in SS -- there are much more epic rewards doing dailies or fighting in the Arenas.
There's no question that nostalgia definitely makes things better, but Chilton is wrong to dismiss any wishes for SS/TM-esque world PvP as simple nostalgia. Blizzard has a tough line to walk here -- they're being asked to encourage, by careful planning, something that always happened spontaneously in the past (and mostly because PvPers didn't have much else to do). It's not nostalgic to think that it was fun (it was fun), but nowadays we've got choices that are fun and give epic rewards, so old world PvP just doesn't compare for most players.
Filed under: Horde, Alliance, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Havitech Apr 15th 2008 8:15PM
"Now that there's more choices, no level 70 would waste their time fighting lowbies in SS -- there are much more epic rewards doing dailies or fighting in the Arenas."
Clearly, you haven't level a character on a PvP server recently.
BitterCupOJoe Apr 16th 2008 4:06PM
No kidding. Some people are just bullies and enjoy nothing more than picking on people that can't effectively fight back.
mirilene Apr 15th 2008 8:19PM
Ah, Southshore.
I remember that place. Where i couldnt get a goddamn thing done for 5 levels without an armed escort of people and a LOT of unproductive running.
Spontaneous world pvp is awesome. How come it always starts (and frequently ends) by being two shot by some asshole 20 levels higher than you?
Yeah sure, there were some cool battles there, but world pvp is always about ganking and showing who's uber. They gank lowbies because they can and run like cowards when a friend or two shows up to help after being camped for 20 minutes. Then they come back with 5 friends and make everyone's life miserable for the next half hour until you dont even WANT to finish the quests you were working on.
Fair world pvp is great. Ganking isnt and thats (in my experience) what it generally is all about.
Tom's right and everyone's looking through the lens of time.
mirilene Apr 15th 2008 8:24PM
PS: If everyone loved world pvp so much, how come there wasnt more TM/SS action going oh i dunno...at the entrance to blackrock mountain where there are no guards and the only competition would be folks your own level and gear strength?
John Gabriel's Internet Dickwad Theory at work, me thinks
lolwut Apr 15th 2008 8:31PM
The thing I don't like about PVP in WoW is that it's always out of the way. You have to go to a battleground, go to a world pvp area, or arena that you would only got to if you want to pvp. I don't really care if Halaa is held by the other faction unless I need to do turn ins or buy something from the vendor there.
What I do get really excited about is when the other faction is attacking a major city or our faction is attacking a major city. This is where people are not expecting PVP but even on a PVE server people will defend their city for the honor of their faction. But why would you bother if you're farming honor? Blizzard gives very little incentive to invade the oposing factions major cities or take down there leaders.
Although it looks as though a couple of upcomming MMOs will properly reward this type of game play.
mirilene Apr 15th 2008 8:38PM
Look for other upcoming MMO's to have massive problems when population imbalances and hard core players combine to effectively lock new players and casuals out of their capital cities for hours at a time.
Just dinged 16 and want to get your new frost bolt, check the AH? Tough luck, the horde just captured Ironforge.
It's not going to be as awesome as you think.
Zarzuur Apr 16th 2008 6:55AM
Non-instanced world PvP is good enough that in Wrath they are adding a new whole zone for it, in the form of Lake Wintergrasp.
IMO, one of the main problems in instanced PvP is that it empties the zones and cities of Azeroth.
rick gregory Apr 15th 2008 8:44PM
Or people could actually read what he said. Including you Mike.
"Tom Chilton : I'll tell you, it's been a slow evolution. When WoW first came out, we didn't really have any semblance of organized PvP. We had Tarren Mill versus Southshore...
GameSpy: Which was awesome!
Tom Chilton : That's nostalgia speaking! I remember you were interviewing me at E3 a couple years ago and you not thinking that it was so awesome. "
Um... he's NOT talking about everyone in WoW with the nostalgia comment. He's clearly referring back to a previous conversation with the interviewer. Criticize Chilton all you want, but come on... do it with some accuracy, OK?
Boom Apr 16th 2008 7:57AM
This bothers me too. The comments in the article were taken WAY OUT OF CONTEXT in order to create a blog posting/content for WoW Insider.
Mike, you're continuing to disappoint me man. I dig your site, but it's stuff like this, the zboard BS article and your continued bashing of multiboxers (due to your own inexperience with the hobby) that have been pushing me away.
You're not an idiot Mike. You can read English. Chilton didn't make a broad generalization, you, like a bunch of kids on the official forums, chose to twist them. They did it so they could look important on the forums with a new "Cause"... you did it to bring people to your blog and sell advertising.
I'm about done here.
Boom
anonymoose Apr 15th 2008 8:54PM
Wow, as usual Chilton is way off base. I also want to express some disappointment that a machinima submission I recommended to WoWInsider covering this very topic (Old World PvP) was not spotlighted, but instead a 20 second promo about gnome punting was.
The video recommended high lights what used to be--keep in mind this was created by someone who has enjoyed all past and current PvP venues, including Arena. Check the rating on this one--it has substantial popularity. Hope the gnome punting video seems as relevant in comparison.
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=68065
Ugkul Apr 16th 2008 1:35AM
Gnome punting was more interesting.
Abraxxis Apr 15th 2008 8:57PM
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Most people did NOT like the SS/TM thing going on. I'm sure many of the PvPers did, but not most of the players. When the server started to grind to a halt in Stranglethorn Vale, we would ask in /1 Betcha they started up SS/TM again. And the World Defense listeners would confirm that it was.
Nobody seems to remember the "loot skate", the resurrection lag, the half hour of dying to mobs because you were lagging so bad you couldn't fight. Nobody remembers the 10 minutes of 0 FPS after your bird landed in SS, and not being able to complete any quests for at least half an hour. Nobody remembers the results of literally hundreds of skeletons on the ground, everyone of which lagged your computer further.
anonymoose Apr 15th 2008 9:07PM
"If everyone loved world pvp so much, how come there wasnt more TM/SS action going oh i dunno...at the entrance to blackrock mountain where there are no guards and the only competition would be folks your own level and gear strength?"
Um...I don't know about your server, but on my server there was! I played a holy priest as my main at that time, and but for Orb of Deception I would not have made it into most raids!
That said, it was a great deal of fun, and far more dynamic than our current Arena over focus.
Tumples Apr 15th 2008 10:42PM
world pvp is still alive, i say after leading a massive raid to ironforge and whooping some magni ass. allies need to learn to defend
kuno Apr 15th 2008 10:50PM
With the addition of the new PvP daily Halaa has become a bit more meaningful and whenever I am going through Nagrand now I check whats happening there.
Have had a few good Halaa fights over the last couple of weeks which I have probably enjoyed more than the usual stuctured BGs.
Sibe Apr 15th 2008 10:55PM
It's called leveling in a different area morons. Goto SS/TM when it's off time, it serves you right if you actually thought it was a smart idea to get stuff done there when PVP was big. Grow brains, and level elsewhere.
Abraxxis Apr 16th 2008 12:32AM
Having a bunch of stupid children lagging out the server, ON THE ENTIRE SERVER, is just an incredible pain.
Selective memory is always a good way to leave the pain behind, but I still remember the pain. It's the deniers that get my goat, the ones that don't remember the pain and annoyance they caused to an entire server.
Havitech Apr 16th 2008 1:14AM
Actually, it's called getting up and doing something else because some dipshit 20 or more levels higher than you decided that instead of progressing himself through the game, he is going to prevent your progression.
True World PvP is very hard to find, because there is absolutely no incentive for "fair fights." After all, people are going to use whatever advantages they can get. It is the responsibility of the game designers to create a system where level 70's are discouraged from grieving lowbies but at the same time rewarded for victories against enemies of equal level.
Todd Apr 16th 2008 10:44AM
Riiiight and first time players who rolled a Forsaken and who's quests told them to go to Tarren Mill are going to know where else to go to level because....?
Nox Apr 16th 2008 12:21AM
Chilton is a tool. But he is an effective tool.
Get people to complain about useless crap like world pvp nostalgia and perhaps no one will talk about how broken his precious Arena system is.
http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/11/27/win-trading-cheating-for-the-top-arena-spots/
Every wonder why your 1500 ranked team looses 18 points to teams with perfect focus fire and good pvp gear who obviously play together all the time?
There is your answer. Some jerkwad is leveling back their loosing team after dropping all their points to their 2000 ranked primary team. Your precious 18 points will be handed over to a top team so that they don't have to earn them by fighting good teams.
But hey... as long as we are complaining about buying arena team spots and world pvp nostalgia... he can just ignore it and act like it doesn't happen.