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4-20-2008 @ 4:06PM
So...you *don't* hate PvP...and you just like stirring up your readers for no particular reason? O.o
4-20-2008 @ 4:10PM
My point has always been that PvE is the real game, and that PvP is an addition that does not impact the real game in WoW. I never said that I don't like it.And I really can't help that readers get stirred up by my analysis and opinions. That issue is something those getting stirred up can only address.
4-20-2008 @ 4:36PM
You never explicitly said that you hated PvP, but it seemed pretty clear from the tone of your last article. To avoid massive flameage, it might have been a good idea to add onto the end of your last article something like "Having said all that, I really enjoy PvP, and in my next article I'll talk about why it's an important addition to the game.""And I really can't help that readers get stirred up by my analysis and opinions." Yes, you can. It's called "tone". It's called "stating the facts but not making a deliberate effort to get everyone riled up at you". Saying things like "And despite the numerous PvP fanbois out there, the real game in WoW will always remain the PvE game," to people who love PvP and play it for hundreds of hours a week, and then saying "I really can't help that readers get stirred up by my analysis and opinions. That issue is something those getting stirred up can only address," won't fly. It amounts to trolling--deliberately angering your readers just to watch the firestorm. Surely you didn't think your last article would pass without comment? You *know* this area is a sore spot with the WoW community, but you decided to poke it with a stick anyway.These articles should not have been published by WoW Insider. You're supposed to be journalists, you're supposed to have standards, you're supposed to edit carefully and fact-check. Instead we get this. Shame on you.
4-20-2008 @ 4:50PM
"These articles should not have been published by WoW Insider. You're supposed to be journalists, you're supposed to have standards, you're supposed to edit carefully and fact-check. Instead we get this. Shame on you."I think you're confusing my piece with fact. This is an "Analysis / Opinion" piece. I get paid to write my opinion, which I'm doing. It's a blog - not the NY Times (and even they get paid to write their opinions).I take no shame from you, sir.
4-20-2008 @ 4:56PM
I have to agree with Sherp. The last article showed no indication that this article was coming - this article seems to be just a quick band-aid to try and fix an already bad idea. Saying "I wrote this one before, I swear" doesn't have any merit when we, your readership, had no former knowledge.Sherp is also completely correct, at least in my humble opinion, about the tone of these two articles. To me, as I said in my comment to the last article, these articles seem like little more than "professional" trolling - and if the comments section to the last article is any sort of a guage, it was an incredibly successful trolling attempt.The only thing trolling tries to do is stir up the readers by posting something controversial and stubborn. "PvE is the only real game!" and "But don't worry, I still like PvP!" are both completely opinion-based biased topics, no matter what sort of reasoning you put behind them. In addition, they are CERTAINLY insulting to some readers. It's like saying "That's not a real shirt" to someone in a clothing store. Again, excuse me for not enjoying having my playstyle be criticized by the "professional" writers whose work I usually enjoy reading. To me, this kind of personal-opinion work is more suited for a suitably personal blog, and not something conglomerate like WoWInsider. Personally speaking, I may become a less loyal reader if this is the kind of content WoWInsider begins to post.
4-20-2008 @ 4:58PM
But don't you have an implied responsibility to make sure your Opinion pieces are high-quality and that they make the world better instead of worse in some small way? Don't you want your words to fall on the "signal" side of the signal:noise ratio?
4-20-2008 @ 5:03PM
"...opinion pieces are high-quality and that they make the world better instead of worse in some small way?"That is a subjective statement. What you think is high-quality another person might think is trash, and vise versa. That's why what I'm saying is an opinion and not fact. There are tons of fact based articles I've written out there, at least two more coming up today.However I do have an opinion, I'm asked to write about it, and until I'm told to stop doing so, I'm going to continue.
4-20-2008 @ 5:08PM
That is true. However, if you'll examine the balance of the comments on your last entry, I think you can divine the amount of respect that WoW Insider readers have for your opinion at the moment.Let me put it another way: My opinion is that your opinion sucks. Good day, sir.
4-20-2008 @ 7:39PM
I have to say I agree with Adam on this. He is writing his opinions. Not yours, not mine, not anyone else's. If he thinks the PvE game is the real game, then he, as a writer for this blog, has every right to write an article about it and post it up on this website. If I recall, good journalism stirs up controversy and opinionated responses. Who enjoys reading articles solely about reporting facts? Sure, they are great for information gathering and things, but after some time, they get stale. If you want stale journalism without opinions, then I guess this isn't the place for you. If Adam has something to say, then he should say it. The same to you and everyone else.Also, it's not like Adam is plainly stating this opinion and leaving it at that, without any points to back his argument. He makes strong points (whether you agree with them or not, they are valid and appropriate) to support what he is saying. Just because you guys are PvP players (or maybe your not....in which case I would ask....why are you so bitter about this article?) doesn't mean you can't appreciate someone stating their opinion and backing it up. Get over it.
4-20-2008 @ 7:55PM
Personally, I agreed 100% with your last article. I feel PvP is a mini-game, a mere after-thought on Blizzards part. It was never meant to be as big as it is today. I find it funny at all the the PvP fan-boy's throwing a hissy fit, like this is supposed to be factual journalism.Look guys, this isn't about the war on Iraq. This is about a video game, and the blogger's opinions are what make this site worth reading. I for one, don't want to read a play-by-play on what happens in WoW on a daily basis, that would get old fast.So give it a rest, relax, and learn to enjoy other's opinions (even if you disagree with them) and not be such a twat about it.
4-21-2008 @ 11:38AM
Why is everyone down voting Adam's responses? I can't imagine anyone more qualified to comment and add value to this post?If I had to guess from the down votes, I'd say the people down voting opinions they disagreed with him, and that they were pro-PvP and against his last article.You literally CAN NOT argue that PvP was an afterthought. It was. You can't argue with several of the points in his last article, such as "you cannot progress in PvP without first completing a large potion of the PvE content." I would like to point out that I disagree with his third point ("PvP progression is based on the amount of time one puts into it"), the way these articles were presented, and that, in fact, PvE is the *only* real game. I think the popularity and viability of the Arena Test realm (for the record, I've never actually been on) pretty much proves that PvP is in fact another, added real game. In the two years WoW has been out, PvP has grown into an end game of its own, and it's foolish to disagree. Look at the debate and discussion that came out of his last article. I'm sure he or others could argue that the heated responses or the presentation of that viewpoint had added value. It wasn't some blatant flame post.The truth is that there is no winning Warcraft. As a result, there is in fact a lot of discussion as to what constitutes a real end game. The end game of "Slaughtering Naga in Azshara" isn't challenging or interesting to me. That doesn't stop someone from being very serious about nagacide.
4-21-2008 @ 1:05PM
Adam should have titled this post:"Why PVP is the only real measure of skill in WoW" so he could get a bunch of PVErs to flame him too.
4-21-2008 @ 3:13PM
Sherp,This is an internet blog on a video game. Your definition of Journalism is incorrect. A journalist is someone who maintains a journal. While a reporter, who's job it is is to record and report facts, is always a journalist, not all journalists are in fact reporters. Opinion journalists are not reporters, but are journalists. Rigidly defined, Adam may be an journailst, but that does not make him a reporter. He is an opinion columnist for an on line web site. His job is to give his opinion on any number of subjects that contain to the game World of Warcraft. If you dislike his opinion, feel glad that the site has a forum for you to express your disagreement. He is not beholden to you for the content of his pieces. You aren't a paying customer, unless you are an advertiser on this web site. If you want to hold any opinion writer to the same standards as you would a reporter for the AP, then I suggest you find a news site dedicated on reporting only the facts about World of Warcraft. Although, I expect your search will be long and fruitless. If you don't like Adams opinions, on the other hand, that is a different story. Discussing the merits of his arguements and opinions is something completely different. An intelligent discussion on merit is far more interesting than an ignorant discussion of why you are annoyed that someone holds a different opinion.The wonderful thing about opinions is that a differing opinion has no cost to you, and can only benefit you. It will either cause you to strengthen your reasoning for your opinion, or cause you to reasses the value of your original opinion. Whatever the change your opinion undergoes, it will only become stronger.Consider that the next time you throw a hissy fit when someone has a contrary opinion to yours. Not only will it make you a more intelligent person, it will make you look less stupid.
4-26-2008 @ 12:28PM
I am more of a PvP player than PvP, although I enjoy the BGs on occasion. Both are part of the game, but are very different styles.I think where the major rift is between PvP and PvE is, like other games of this type, often PvE (which is the primary purpose of the game) is impacted by the minority who PvP. Think about it - where does all the nerf whining come from? No-one complains that 'locks are overpowered when they have one in their raid. No-one complains that this skill or that is unfair when it is helping them. That complaining only comes up in PvP - but the changes affect the entire game.
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