One reason tanks won't PuG
by Matthew Rossi 
Apr 21st 2008 at 3:30PM
There's been a lot of talk about tank shortages, especially in pick up groups or PuG's. And at times it can be hard to understand why tanks are so reluctant to run in such groups. Luckily, Primula, a mage on Rexxar decides to help explain this all to us by starting an epic thread on the forums. Sadly, Primula's original post was deleted (by Primula), but forum poster Montar helps us understand by quoting it in his reply.Apparently Prim was upset at the guild Steady Hand (a horde guild on Rexxar) because after a heroic Magister's Terrace run they called her a ninja for rolling on and winning an epic trinket that dropped off of Priestess Delrissa (who I always call Princess for some reason). Now, you may be thinking "Hey, Timbal's is pretty good for fire mages" but let me stop you. The trinket in question wasn't Timbal's. It was, rather, Commendation of Kael'thas.
To paraphrase one of my favorite films, that sound you hear is the sound of ultimate suffering. I made that sound when the rogue outrolled me on The Sun Eater on my tenth heroic Mech. There is a tank on Rexxar who makes that sound now. Anyway, Primula decided to post on the forums about how the tank was awful, in all blues, and therefore didn't deserve the trinket and she was going to use it for PvP. And thanks to quick witted responses, and a fast tipster, I got to read the thread and lose my mind this morning. Supposedly Primula took the trinket for PvP. Well, I hope you're done PuGging, because I can't imagine a druid, paladin or warrior who'll tank for you on that realm for fear of losing some other bit of tanky goodness to your PvP set.
It's things like this that make you stop PuGging. I absolutely will not step into an instance with people I don't know anymore. When I get tells from people looking for a tank for the daily heroic, I make up an excuse unless I am guilded with or have been guilded with/have known that person. And if the rest of the group ends up being people I don't know, I'll bail at the slightest provocation. Rude to me? I'm gone. Racist? Bye. Homophobic? I left my oven on. Bad loot behavior, looting in combat, rushing pulls? I have something else I could be doing.
There are plenty of good players in the trenches trying to get through a heroic who I would be happy to tank for, if there wasn't always at least one guy who makes it an unendurable nightmare. The hunter who does less damage than the tank and freaks out once damage meters are posted. Oh yes, and it was this same hunter who demanded that they be posted. Or the fury warrior who keeps taunting mobs off of the bear tank and then wondering why he dies every pull. Let's not forget that guy. The guy who rolls on every plate drop in the instance even if it's tanking gear, even if it has +spell damage or +healing, totally ignoring the ret pally who has stated up front that he intends to respec prot and is trying to put together a tanking set. The warlock who takes an epic BoE healing cloak and equips it right there on the run.
I know you've had these experiences too, the problem for me (and a lot of other tanks I've talked with about it) is that the toxicity that these experiences engender seems to linger in the tanking mind. Perhaps it's because PuG's usually seem to expect me to lead the run, making me some sort of nanny when loot bs or other personality issues comes into play. Maybe it's just the stress of tanking and then seeing someone like Primula outroll me on a piece of tanking gear that is basically the only thing on the run I would even want. I wouldn't say that tanking is harder than DPSing, but it's stressful in a different way because, like a healer, you feel like the entire run is on your shoulders and that everyone is watching you the whole time. Compounding that issue with groups that make the experience unpleasant just isn't worth a tanks limited play time.
When I tank, I tank for people I know won't treat me poorly, and so unfortunately that leaves a lot of perfectly good players I haven't met yet looking for a tank. Yes, there are greedy tanks, bad tanks, and tanks with unpleasant personalities, but the fact is that every single class in the game can come to a run and DPS. Only three of them can come tank. Every single DPS class has more than one DPS spec, but the three tanking classes have one tanking spec and two other specs (two DPS specs for warriors, a DPS spec and a Healing spec for paladins, and even more variety for druids) and so, not every member of the three classes that can tank can tank him or herself. There are less tanks to start with, so even though you only need one, you notice when no one wants to do it. I assume it's much the same for healers, but since I don't heal as much anymore I won't make a claim.
I hope Primula enjoys that new PvP trinket, especially as one poster pointed out, when she drops below 35% health standing next to an arms warrior with a Stormherald. That 2k overpower crit is brought to you by the Commendation of Kael'thas.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
themann1086 Apr 21st 2008 3:40PM
Up front: I'm not a tank. I'm DPS. My RL friend, who has been playing with me for about a year now, is a warrior. He's spec'd pretty much everything in that time, and he's finally starting to put together tanking gear. We PuG together.
All I can say is: "The horror... the horror!"
It's mostly on the DPS side of things; the healers we've grouped with have been pretty good so far, for the most part. So to the world's tanks, on behalf of pew-pewers everywhere, I apologize.
DaveO Apr 22nd 2008 5:18PM
I don't do PuGs anymore- I've had too many comments like:
"WTF!! Why can't you tank 2 non-tauntable non CC-able mobs while I cast my 5k fireballs at it?"
"I thought I was supposed to ice trap the skull...."
and my personal favorite when I asked for a HS-
"Make your own"
LFG is filled with "LF non-failboat tank" "LF tank Daily heroic- only T6 need apply"
Best Pug I ever had was Ramps on my Ele Shammy with a new tank- about halfway through- everything going really smooth, found out the other 3 peeps in the group all played tanks as their mains
JParris Apr 21st 2008 3:40PM
You have, in this post, hit on exactly the variety of reasons I no longer PuG on my bear tank. There are groups within my own guild that always need tanks. Why would I deal with crazy puggers?
Anyone who complains about a tank or healers shortage on their server, I always dare them to roll a tanking or healing class. I have both, and guess what? After a few dozen terrible PuGs, said new tank/healer won't be caught dead pugging either.
Knucker Apr 21st 2008 5:04PM
Hear hear! I leveled a druid unknowing that I would be forced to tank as feral in BC, now I'm stuck tanking... but at least it's for 25 mans, so it doesn't get boring.
Charlie Apr 22nd 2008 7:46AM
Ha, thats the first time "I'm forced to tank" as a druid.
BC sure has brought about some changes.
Caallis Apr 21st 2008 3:41PM
Awesome Princess Bride reference. Also, being a Warrior Tank myself, my heart has made that sound too.
Have fun storming the castle!
Lars Apr 21st 2008 7:31PM
"That is the sound I made when the six-fingered man kill my father. The man in black makes it now."
Regarding "The warlock who takes an epic BoE healing cloak and equips it right there on the run."
Sometimes it seems like nobody thinks 'locks benefit from +healing gear. I play an affliction 'lock and all my stuff is +spell damage/healing. I hate how the newer high end gear is split more to the healing side. But a cloak like that I'd love to have. Of course, priests get first choice in my book. I've seen a lot of similar gear drop, but they've always been upgrades for the priest in the group, so I always pass even though they'd be upgrades for me. Priests just get first dibs in my book.
AlmtyBob Apr 22nd 2008 4:13AM
I think you're missing something big here. When you see "new gear split more toward the healing side" it's because it's HEALING GEAR. The item tooltips changed to reflect the fact that healers get 1/3rd of their +heal as spell damage. There is ALWAYS a better piece of gear for you at the same item level than healing gear.
Xionaz Apr 21st 2008 3:43PM
I completely agree there is a compleet lack of tanks on Spinebreaker. Being a healer, I usually go with the same group for instances. We have:
Me (Pally - Healer)
FRIEND (Druid -Tank)
FRIEND (Mage - DPS/CC)
FRIEND (Lock - DPS/CC)
FRIEND (Rogue - DPS/CC)
We all know each other very well and do a lot of heroics together and trust eac other enough where we are able to get things done effecitvely, screw upa nd talk about it and laugh. However, if one of us is busy and we PUG people it usually goes horrible as you get the whinner, the guy who can't play his class, or the ninja.
Trust me kiddies... find good tanks/healers/DPS and stick with them... the more mistakes kiddies make, the less you will find the reliable ones that really shine.
Ganesh Apr 21st 2008 4:37PM
i play a horde bear tank on spinebreaker. i've encountered some cool people there in PUGs, but also some jerks. unfortunately, there were more jerks, so now i only run instances with guildmates.
the incident that finally turned me away from pugs was when i tanked for a guildie whose tank had to leave in the middle of regular ramps. the tanking ring drops from the last boss -- woohoo! -- so i rolled need on it. so did an idiot level 63 mage (named something like "seksmeup"), who won the roll. when the party started making fun of him for it, he said that mages need armor, too?!?!? if you don't know what a ring made for tanks is after 63 levels, when will you ever learn?
i swear, as a tank, i've really grown to distrust people who play DPS characters. most have never heard of "threat" or even use omen. instead, they sit back, spam their two attack keys and assume that if they're killed, it's the fault of the tank or the healer. i trust my guildies more to know what they're doing and they have the right mods to do it.
enkafiles Apr 21st 2008 5:40PM
as a healer with *very* limited playtime,
I only agree somewhat. PUGs can be pretty awful
(impatient rogues are my favorite)
but if the group is even decent, they are really fun.
Let alone the 1-in-10 PUG that just rocks. ^^
Besides - if you *never* pug, how will you meet new great players?
jbodar Apr 21st 2008 7:57PM
@Ganesh
"i swear, as a tank, i've really grown to distrust people who play DPS characters. most have never heard of "threat" or even use omen. instead, they sit back, spam their two attack keys and assume that if they're killed, it's the fault of the tank or the healer."
Truer words have never been spoken. This is not ALL DPS'ers but there are many PUG'ers who have no concept of threat management. I even ran with a few healers that didn't know how to control their healing threat.
Healzme Apr 21st 2008 3:50PM
I can't agree with you more, from the Healer side. I stopped puging because I hated the Lock who roles on healer garb, or the beartank who likes the stats on a trinket. It's one thing to setup the loot rules ahead of time, but to join a group of people that think they are the only one who should get everything....forget that. I have had no issue not healing a person being an arse and wait for them to complain. Just lik you said, "Oh I have to go, my kitchen is on fire..."
thanks
Jamal Apr 21st 2008 4:03PM
imo, i think Blizz should introduce a whole new looting system. They should have a system that has each item, that goes to certain classes. Meaning, a mage,warlock,priest,shaman, etc, cannot pick up plate. Or a Rouege cannot pick up an axe, stuff like that. This can be changed of course, but i think this would be a very handy looting enhancement.
Eternalpayn Apr 21st 2008 4:22PM
If you are the group leader, witch loot style to need before greed. You can only roll if you can wield it.
Kuhtarl Apr 21st 2008 5:11PM
The loot system for professions is a bit like this now. If you aren't an enchanter, you don't even SEE the epix BoP recipe. I like that. I don't need to see or roll on an item that I can't use.
If they just make some of the obvious class specific items viewable only by those classes first, it removes the chance that a mage rolls on an epic BoP Shield or something.
Then again, Master Looter still works for those so inclined to use it. (At least I assume it does. I really only run with people I trust and we've never had to use it.)
Silverrealm Apr 21st 2008 5:29PM
I see your point, but sometimes that class doesn't need the item, then it should be FFA for dis-enchanting or selling on AH (if applicable).
Jamal Apr 21st 2008 5:49PM
I dont think master looter is reasonable, because everyone will think you are a ninja yourself. And the thing is u can be, thats why that looting makes it so everyone trusts eachother. Think of it like Paypal (odd example, i know). You dont trust the person with your credit card, and the other person doesnt trust you with their item. So-they use paypal :)
thats what this is. It enables people to go by these rules to disable stupid, dumb ass, ninja rolling. With that thing on, no one can roll need, not even leader.
BillDoor Apr 21st 2008 3:50PM
I rarely pug, and if I do, I'm only doing it for instances that I have quests for, or if there is a specific drop that I need. I tell the group in advance that I'm looking for that drop, and want to know who else will be rolling on it. If the rogue says that he wants to roll on the Commendation before I get one, I'm outta there. If the healer is a Holy Pally that also tanks? Sure, I'll share.
Still, I much rather put together a guild run. Much less drama and much more fun that way.
Jeremy Cox Apr 21st 2008 3:54PM
I thought that the reason Tanks don't PuG is stupid wipes lead to extra egregious repair bills for plate wearers.
I was horrified to read about these other experiences. And I keep thinking, "All that plus a big repair bill... salt on open wounds."