One reason tanks won't PuG
There's been a lot of talk about tank shortages, especially in pick up groups or PuG's. And at times it can be hard to understand why tanks are so reluctant to run in such groups. Luckily, Primula, a mage on Rexxar decides to help explain this all to us by starting an epic thread on the forums. Sadly, Primula's original post was deleted (by Primula), but forum poster Montar helps us understand by quoting it in his reply.Apparently Prim was upset at the guild Steady Hand (a horde guild on Rexxar) because after a heroic Magister's Terrace run they called her a ninja for rolling on and winning an epic trinket that dropped off of Priestess Delrissa (who I always call Princess for some reason). Now, you may be thinking "Hey, Timbal's is pretty good for fire mages" but let me stop you. The trinket in question wasn't Timbal's. It was, rather, Commendation of Kael'thas.
To paraphrase one of my favorite films, that sound you hear is the sound of ultimate suffering. I made that sound when the rogue outrolled me on The Sun Eater on my tenth heroic Mech. There is a tank on Rexxar who makes that sound now. Anyway, Primula decided to post on the forums about how the tank was awful, in all blues, and therefore didn't deserve the trinket and she was going to use it for PvP. And thanks to quick witted responses, and a fast tipster, I got to read the thread and lose my mind this morning. Supposedly Primula took the trinket for PvP. Well, I hope you're done PuGging, because I can't imagine a druid, paladin or warrior who'll tank for you on that realm for fear of losing some other bit of tanky goodness to your PvP set.
It's things like this that make you stop PuGging. I absolutely will not step into an instance with people I don't know anymore. When I get tells from people looking for a tank for the daily heroic, I make up an excuse unless I am guilded with or have been guilded with/have known that person. And if the rest of the group ends up being people I don't know, I'll bail at the slightest provocation. Rude to me? I'm gone. Racist? Bye. Homophobic? I left my oven on. Bad loot behavior, looting in combat, rushing pulls? I have something else I could be doing.
There are plenty of good players in the trenches trying to get through a heroic who I would be happy to tank for, if there wasn't always at least one guy who makes it an unendurable nightmare. The hunter who does less damage than the tank and freaks out once damage meters are posted. Oh yes, and it was this same hunter who demanded that they be posted. Or the fury warrior who keeps taunting mobs off of the bear tank and then wondering why he dies every pull. Let's not forget that guy. The guy who rolls on every plate drop in the instance even if it's tanking gear, even if it has +spell damage or +healing, totally ignoring the ret pally who has stated up front that he intends to respec prot and is trying to put together a tanking set. The warlock who takes an epic BoE healing cloak and equips it right there on the run.
I know you've had these experiences too, the problem for me (and a lot of other tanks I've talked with about it) is that the toxicity that these experiences engender seems to linger in the tanking mind. Perhaps it's because PuG's usually seem to expect me to lead the run, making me some sort of nanny when loot bs or other personality issues comes into play. Maybe it's just the stress of tanking and then seeing someone like Primula outroll me on a piece of tanking gear that is basically the only thing on the run I would even want. I wouldn't say that tanking is harder than DPSing, but it's stressful in a different way because, like a healer, you feel like the entire run is on your shoulders and that everyone is watching you the whole time. Compounding that issue with groups that make the experience unpleasant just isn't worth a tanks limited play time.
When I tank, I tank for people I know won't treat me poorly, and so unfortunately that leaves a lot of perfectly good players I haven't met yet looking for a tank. Yes, there are greedy tanks, bad tanks, and tanks with unpleasant personalities, but the fact is that every single class in the game can come to a run and DPS. Only three of them can come tank. Every single DPS class has more than one DPS spec, but the three tanking classes have one tanking spec and two other specs (two DPS specs for warriors, a DPS spec and a Healing spec for paladins, and even more variety for druids) and so, not every member of the three classes that can tank can tank him or herself. There are less tanks to start with, so even though you only need one, you notice when no one wants to do it. I assume it's much the same for healers, but since I don't heal as much anymore I won't make a claim.
I hope Primula enjoys that new PvP trinket, especially as one poster pointed out, when she drops below 35% health standing next to an arms warrior with a Stormherald. That 2k overpower crit is brought to you by the Commendation of Kael'thas.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 9)
BillDoor Apr 21st 2008 3:56PM
My Shard of Contempt cost me about 60g in repairs, and we never downed Kael for the daily. Oh well, was worth it though.
Back in the trenches I go though, until the Commendation drops. Then I'm done with Terrace!
enkafiles Apr 21st 2008 5:47PM
that's the best thing about druid tanks.
They seem to be much more laid back about rep cost.^^
Pally tanks are still my favorite though,
ever since I got to watch one work
when I was the PUG dps on a really divine run
(45-minute heroic Bota).
Thaelus Apr 21st 2008 3:51PM
Had the opposite situation happen to me over the weekend.
Went in to tank Mana Tombs with a PuG. A fury warrior in the group kept talking about how he wanted to respec prot to get more spots in groups and so on. He had his eyes set on the shield drop from Pandemonius. We down him once, shield doesnt drop but healer had to leave. New healer and instance is reset.
Down Pandemonius again, shield drops and we both need on it. I get it and he starts freaking out on the whole group and chews me out in whisper too. We reset and down Pandemonius for a third time and, to his idiotic surprise, the shield does not drop. He loses it and starts telling me what a jerk i am, me the TANK, for rolling on his loot. I calmly explained to him that he carried a sword in his left hand while i carried a shield followed by a /kick. He will never group with me again.
p3ngu11 Apr 21st 2008 3:52PM
i pug less and less because of these dums
i don't even respond to tells asking for me to tank
M.D. Apr 21st 2008 3:53PM
Hey, I PuG'd with that hunter who got all butthurt about the damage meter! Except on my run (slabs), he then proceeded to deliberately wipe the group and drop party. Great guy! (not really)
Pucelle Apr 21st 2008 10:30PM
On my run, after being outDPSed by the prot warrior, our weaksauce hunter decided to "get ahead" on damage by shooting everything indiscriminately, ignoring CC and aggro.
And, since I - also a hunter - was there, in tier 5, he didn't even come close to the top of the charts.
The prot warrior was amused, though.
PeeWee Apr 21st 2008 4:00PM
This mage is the reason people are asking for a way to stab others in the face over the interwebz.
MechChef Apr 21st 2008 4:03PM
Before WotLK, I should level a pally. Save me the trouble of running content and ez-mode tank it myself. Or perhaps leave him to throw around heals, and also bring up a DK. I just wish they'd give me a release date....
Naix Apr 21st 2008 4:42PM
I am rolling a Druid right now. He is 32 and will hit 60 in 2 weeks. Then 70 in 3 more weeks. I want to tank, heal, and do damage. Also Druids are feared in BGs and Arenas.
Why did I ever roll a priest....
sautz Apr 21st 2008 4:04PM
Wow, this makes me want to level an Alliance toon on Rexxar to kick Primula's ass. Why not roll on a feral Druid staff why you are at it and then go crying on the forums because someone called you a ninja?
How to PUG loot:
1) Everyone pass on blues and above
2) Quick discussion on who needs it most (or in the case of this trinket say congrats tank)
3) Roll if more than one needs it
4) Loot
5) Profit
BillDoor Apr 21st 2008 4:11PM
You could just use Master Looter, and set the threshold to Blues.
whiterabbit7785 Apr 21st 2008 4:16PM
That's stupid... why pass on blues? If you don't need it, "greed" it. If you need it, "need" it.
The system is there for a reason
Ahoni Apr 21st 2008 4:18PM
@whiterabbit7785
Did you RTFA? People like Primula is exactly why you pass and discuss. He NEEDED the tanking trinket.
sautz Apr 21st 2008 4:53PM
Dude, how is this system stupid? A mage NEEDED on a tank trinket and took it. At least read the article before jumping in with your ignorant response.
The truth is you can't trust a pure PUG, even the master looter. With this system no one ninjas... everyone passes then rolls if needed and takes the loot. If no one needs roll on shard. If this PUG had used this common system the mage would have passed then tried to roll on the tank trinket he/she would have been kicked from the group after a long bout of laughter.
AlmtyBob Apr 21st 2008 5:03PM
That system makes no sense. The whole point of ninja'ing is you don't give a damn about what other people think. Yah, that mage might have happily clicked pass the first two bosses, but I'm damn sure Primula would have just needed the trinket when it came up. The tank wouldn't have even had a shot to roll. With that system what happens when two people can't agree? In Need Before Greed at least the worst someone can do is click Need. With your system ninja's are free to walk right up to a corpse after everyone passes and loot the whole thing with nothing stopping him.
George Apr 21st 2008 5:57PM
Thank you Bob for recognizing the complete an utter failure the "everyone pass" system is.
In that scenario, your jerk will simply click need again anyway. But let's say he doesn't. You council, everyone agrees the tank gets it and before he clicks to loot, the mage loots it first.
The "everyone pass" system is a failure. In fact, it's worse than using the built in greed/need system because at least then you have a chance of rolling need higher. By everyone passing, you guarantee the ninja's success.
L2Logic.
Rob Apr 21st 2008 7:17PM
Agreed that everyone pass is stupid logic. First you kill the boss. Then everyone has to pass. What are the odds that random person X doesn't realize you are supposed to pass. They become the loot ninja. Then, after everyone passes, you discuss. Because the chances of having two same specs in the same instance is incredibly high (sarcasm). THen, the person who wants it, gets its.
Frankly, this system takes freaking forever to decide loot and is so prone to failure. Our guild has a 'everyone pass' system, and I've had kara epics lost 3 times. All accidents, sure. But 3 times. We did get them back, but that was alot of hassle (thanks to the cool GMs out there). If you aren't going to ML, figure out if you want it (side-grade, or for vendoring) or need it (for upgrade when you are the only spec that can use it). Why is this so hard?
sautz Apr 21st 2008 8:42PM
This is the system we use on the 3 servers I play on. Before the pug we say everyone pass, but everyone already knows it. The failure in your logic is that Primula, in this case, would go against the pressure of the group and take the tanking trinket, drop, and be a pure ninja thus ruining their reputation worse than they did and likely have to pay the $25 to change servers. You are assuming that there are lots of loot ninjas out there, and I have not run into one in hundred of instance runs.
Also, it doesn't take forever to decide with this system, either, because if there is any disagreement you roll for it. I've seen far less problems with this system than the quick click on need by accident system you guys like so much.
Tenchan Apr 22nd 2008 3:16AM
@ some of the commenters
Not this shit it again. Let me spell it out for you: the Pass system works when you play with mature, reasonable people, and then it works flawlessly and is far superior.
If you play with jerks only that would abuse this system, maybe you should have a thought or two about what people you surround yourself with instead of blaming a loot system.
That said.
With the current loot system, the 'safest' choice is Master Looter, because it only allows for one possible ninjalooter in a group instead of five (and remembering only one name for future revenge is so much easier). A truly safe choice does not exist with the current loot system. Sadly.
Frank Apr 22nd 2008 7:58AM
@ Sautz and Tenchan
Hi scrubs. The article is about a ninja looter.
Let me spell it out for the brain dead slobs that you are. THE EVERYBODY PASS SYSTEM ENABLES NINJA LOOTERS WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS ARTICLE IS TALKING ABOUT.
And if the people you group with are so brain dead that they can't figure out which button to click, what's to stop them from having auto loot on and clicking the boss after passing to collect a badge, accidentally picking up the loot? NOTHING.
EVERYBODY PASS IS A FAILURE.