One reason tanks won't PuG
There's been a lot of talk about tank shortages, especially in pick up groups or PuG's. And at times it can be hard to understand why tanks are so reluctant to run in such groups. Luckily, Primula, a mage on Rexxar decides to help explain this all to us by starting an epic thread on the forums. Sadly, Primula's original post was deleted (by Primula), but forum poster Montar helps us understand by quoting it in his reply.Apparently Prim was upset at the guild Steady Hand (a horde guild on Rexxar) because after a heroic Magister's Terrace run they called her a ninja for rolling on and winning an epic trinket that dropped off of Priestess Delrissa (who I always call Princess for some reason). Now, you may be thinking "Hey, Timbal's is pretty good for fire mages" but let me stop you. The trinket in question wasn't Timbal's. It was, rather, Commendation of Kael'thas.
To paraphrase one of my favorite films, that sound you hear is the sound of ultimate suffering. I made that sound when the rogue outrolled me on The Sun Eater on my tenth heroic Mech. There is a tank on Rexxar who makes that sound now. Anyway, Primula decided to post on the forums about how the tank was awful, in all blues, and therefore didn't deserve the trinket and she was going to use it for PvP. And thanks to quick witted responses, and a fast tipster, I got to read the thread and lose my mind this morning. Supposedly Primula took the trinket for PvP. Well, I hope you're done PuGging, because I can't imagine a druid, paladin or warrior who'll tank for you on that realm for fear of losing some other bit of tanky goodness to your PvP set.
It's things like this that make you stop PuGging. I absolutely will not step into an instance with people I don't know anymore. When I get tells from people looking for a tank for the daily heroic, I make up an excuse unless I am guilded with or have been guilded with/have known that person. And if the rest of the group ends up being people I don't know, I'll bail at the slightest provocation. Rude to me? I'm gone. Racist? Bye. Homophobic? I left my oven on. Bad loot behavior, looting in combat, rushing pulls? I have something else I could be doing.
There are plenty of good players in the trenches trying to get through a heroic who I would be happy to tank for, if there wasn't always at least one guy who makes it an unendurable nightmare. The hunter who does less damage than the tank and freaks out once damage meters are posted. Oh yes, and it was this same hunter who demanded that they be posted. Or the fury warrior who keeps taunting mobs off of the bear tank and then wondering why he dies every pull. Let's not forget that guy. The guy who rolls on every plate drop in the instance even if it's tanking gear, even if it has +spell damage or +healing, totally ignoring the ret pally who has stated up front that he intends to respec prot and is trying to put together a tanking set. The warlock who takes an epic BoE healing cloak and equips it right there on the run.
I know you've had these experiences too, the problem for me (and a lot of other tanks I've talked with about it) is that the toxicity that these experiences engender seems to linger in the tanking mind. Perhaps it's because PuG's usually seem to expect me to lead the run, making me some sort of nanny when loot bs or other personality issues comes into play. Maybe it's just the stress of tanking and then seeing someone like Primula outroll me on a piece of tanking gear that is basically the only thing on the run I would even want. I wouldn't say that tanking is harder than DPSing, but it's stressful in a different way because, like a healer, you feel like the entire run is on your shoulders and that everyone is watching you the whole time. Compounding that issue with groups that make the experience unpleasant just isn't worth a tanks limited play time.
When I tank, I tank for people I know won't treat me poorly, and so unfortunately that leaves a lot of perfectly good players I haven't met yet looking for a tank. Yes, there are greedy tanks, bad tanks, and tanks with unpleasant personalities, but the fact is that every single class in the game can come to a run and DPS. Only three of them can come tank. Every single DPS class has more than one DPS spec, but the three tanking classes have one tanking spec and two other specs (two DPS specs for warriors, a DPS spec and a Healing spec for paladins, and even more variety for druids) and so, not every member of the three classes that can tank can tank him or herself. There are less tanks to start with, so even though you only need one, you notice when no one wants to do it. I assume it's much the same for healers, but since I don't heal as much anymore I won't make a claim.
I hope Primula enjoys that new PvP trinket, especially as one poster pointed out, when she drops below 35% health standing next to an arms warrior with a Stormherald. That 2k overpower crit is brought to you by the Commendation of Kael'thas.
Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Analysis / Opinion
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Reader Comments (Page 9 of 9)
Narica Apr 29th 2008 1:46PM
Tanks and healers can have to put up with a lot. However...example: My 70 rogue, my buddy's 70 rogue, and his 67 druid are going to run Mana tombs. Druid's...feral I think it was. So, whisper this 67 priest who's in looking for group. And he starts pulling a full interrogation routine.
I'm sorry, but I don't appreciate an immense amount of questioning when I'm the one who's the best geared and thus will be bleeding the most for repair bills. Being a priest or tank does not automatically mean that I will roll over and do whatever you say. Especially not on a fight I already know.
Wulfhere Apr 29th 2008 3:12PM
Sucks to be you. Reroll a useful class, or keep being a selfish "I DPS" class and get used to being interchangeable with every other class in the game.
idburns May 2nd 2008 4:47PM
I stopped tanking pugs a long time ago.
I've been a prot warrior since I hit 60...which was over 3 years ago.
Spockette May 5th 2008 7:01AM
"Hi, make me lead so I can mark." (set to master looter).
If your a desperately needed tank, you win. Pugs wont care. If they do, tell them to find another tank (gl with that). No need to worry about bad loot decisions, unless you are at fault. Trust me, if its on ML, you will get that trinket, believe it or not.
onslaughtq May 9th 2008 3:39PM
Hell I have this problem, not as tank, but as a hunter. I almost lost part of my d3 set to a shaman. I understand that the stats are there for you, but unless I missed something, shaman don't need increased cooldown on traps or a proc off kill command.
(Let's not go into why I was getting my d3 set, yes I know epics are better)
NiM May 12th 2008 11:17AM
Just this morning i was asked by a friend to pug MgT HC, i was going to say no, i dont do pugs, but i thought for a bit and said ok, shoot. Atleast i know the healer is great.
Now my tank is not my main, in other words, he's mostly blue with a touch of purple, but i know the game and i've tanked Mgt heroic before aswell as other instances and karazhan with him.
Turns out a certain shaman on the team who is newly dressed in endgame epics has got hubris, and aparantly he also believes everyone needs to be T6 to be able to do MgT, and we absolutle MUST have a rogue and a mage, ofcourse he's complaining about me at first but he's basicly told to shove it by my friend in a very diplomatic way. The rogue we invited is clad in mostly gladiator's so the Shaman starts complaining about that. Rogue leaves (obviosuly) and seeing what caliber this shaman is i take off aswell. whereby this shaman whispers me, and i quote "ur a fcking nab tank! get some better gear nerd".
Irony being ofcourse that my main character is one of the more well known and fairly respected oldtimers on the server. However i'm thinking of shelving him in favour of the tank if we decide to back to raiding.
Now with experiences like this? Keep spamming the LFG for tanks all you want, i've turned that channel off. This tank 'aint puggin!
notankforyou May 12th 2008 8:30PM
thats why i just respec dps war... fuck tanking i'll respec for raids but usually i go my dps/pvp spec.
I rly hate assholes who will role on plate to de in the damn blue/epic...
Me "i nd that SunEater"
Retard "i nd the void crystal"
Me " QQ "
so its straight dps unless its raid weekend, then i'll tank away wit my guild but other than friends and guildies its no tank for u
Eagan May 16th 2008 12:25AM
You know, I used to be a Prot paladin way back when the noobiest of the nublets where quoting guilds doing things that is still out of their comprehesion (Directly after TBC was released). Remember the blood, sweat, tears, time, and money into leveling Prot just to be as good as the elites taking on Onyxia as if she was some sort of leathery gasbag. From what I've learned Prot paladins more than deserve their time in the sun for having switched from one hellish nightmare to another with the recent demand, but never changing attitude toward tanks, Paladin, warrior and druid alike.
Sadly, it seems that most will never truely understand what it's like to be a tank until they learn the playstyle that requires you to sit through a 3 second battle 10 times longer. Tanks truely are in a league of their own.
Kellen May 17th 2008 11:35AM
Level very well geared prot pally
Druid who was feral for a while (now resto)
Warrior who's being geared up slowly..
I HATE PUGS... the whole problem is that you get stuck with these absolute morons who think its fun to pull aggro and dance around like zebbedee on crack!
AND they are always clueless, that means the tank and group leader (normally one in the same) has to babysit these ignorant fools and lead them hand-in-hand through the instance constantly reminding them to be careful, don't pull aggro, watch threat meter, don't break CC, put that down, don't touch that, get away from there.
If players could be sensible in a PuG, i'd be more inclined to offer out my tanking services.
/rant
uncaringbear May 16th 2008 9:30PM
Noone would argue that Matt is one of the best writers for Wowinsider, if not the best. However, this article represents a low point. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to choose how they play the game, but it's sad to see this anti-PUG attitude promoted. I think someone has forgotten that WoW is a game of interacting with other people. That in itself has its negatives, but don't forget the good points. Whiney QQ articles like this only expose the fact that the players being accused of being selfish are not necessarily the ninjas.
AggroEire May 19th 2008 8:16AM
I finally decided to respec my Paladin holy and found a good guild that needed a holy Paladin. It was too difficult to get tanking gear with everyone and their great uncle's second cousin wanting to roll on it. I also got tired of the CC classes CCing melee mobs even after I explained the mechanics of pally tank. I might go Tankadin for my guild when we grow to the 25man raids, but there's a lot of farming in Kara and Heroics before that.
Oddly enough, there's less interest in rolling against a healer when they need something. I guess heals are a more direct reminder of the fact that I'm keeping them standing.
annerjb May 31st 2008 7:49AM
i was doing a pug once we a t6 tank i understand tanking because i have a prot spec warrior and my warlock on some blues was doing H SP with a t6 tank the tank keep bitching to me and 2 guys about doing more dps than him for no apparent reason. we where playing fine we where doing the place as smoothly as you like it but he leaved the part and the party leader QQ and kicked us and invited him back way to go.
and yeah in this special cases when i have run 10 times the instance for the sun eater it goes to master looter idc if they trust me or not i wont ninja stuff i just want to be fair i did it once when a guy accidentally needed on a blue. i didnt knew so i changed to master looter then he came back and said that he left his little kid playing.....
luckily it was a BOE blue.
annerjb May 31st 2008 7:49AM
i aggre with nim
T6 people want t6 people on H MGT
quess what you noob i did sunwell trash on greens and some blues nice eh.
i did magister with the same shitty gear heroic is a ovverrated instances its not hard it takes SKILLS with its starting to lack as gear gets better.
ps: not rant against t6 people kudos to them just saying that retards that dont know how to play their class offset their skill with gear.
i can have shittier gear than yours but theres onething for sure i know my warlock better than you know your hunter. i know how to save from a wipe i know how to kills a elite while everybody is dead saying OMG why did hunter didnt trapped.
so for all you t6 noobs go learn to play your class before.
(skill >gear) == true
Medell Jul 1st 2008 9:41AM
i have a 70 hunter a 70 lock and a 70 ( healing) shaman i am also in the process of lvling a prot pally ( whos currently lvl 26) lol not bragging just stating that i have some experience
i was fortunate that when i started playing WoW i had RL friends to lvl and run with i also was invited to a kick... guild who was more interested in teaching me how to be good at my class rather than tryn to progress at the expense of the members
I have the utmost respect for tanks as i have seen really good ones ( and the bad )
i feel that 95 % of the problems with pug groups could be fixed with a little patience and explaination early on so that the DPS and CC knows whats expected of them early
please bear in mind that this is only my opinion but most (not all) players spend 95-99% of their time solo leveling so when it comes to playing as part of a group they have no idea what is expected from them
Now im not saying that pugs are bad but they are part of a learning curve for a lot of players myself included and if players had a little time to help newbie players the game would have to be better,wouldnt it ?
Sure there would still be the morons who think its fun to make the tanks job as hard as possible through plain stupidity but the number of players that know what they are supposed to be doing and doing it would increase
i love pugs 90 % of the time and have met heaps of fun loving considerate people on them and i have been on the recieving end of ninjalooters as well ( i have them on my ignore list and check it b4 every pug) and i hope that the things that all the tanks here have described dont happen to me so often that i come to hate pugs as much as you all seem to
to me that would be a real shame